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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CM variation to look after 5 under 5

43 replies

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 13:14

Firstly, I'm happy with the CM we send DS1 to (he's 3). She's professional and does a range of different activities with him and he seems happy there.

DS2 is due to start there next month (at 11months). I've found out that at times, she will be looking after another 3 children at the same time (one also coming up to a year and 2 others coming up to 2 years). So 5 in total.

I'm in a quandry. In some ways, I'm thinking I'm worrying about nothing - she's very organised and sets activities etc up the night before, she's not doing a school run on that day she has 5. BUT, my heart also is nagging as to whether my two DSs will get sufficient attention. I guess I'm not questioning her skills. More that if I think about it, the time it takes to change 4 kids nappies, feed them, put them to bed etc (as well as having my 3 year old), there are only so many hours in the day. How can there be time left to play / interact etc?

What do others think? Would appreciate any experiences / thoughts.

Thanks

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BoysAreLikeDogs · 07/01/2011 13:21

If she's experienced she will be able to do it well, differentiate the activities, give attention; how often will she have 5 under 5's when your children are there? If it's say 2 afternoons then I wouldn't worry BUT if it's more than not then I would say your concerns are quite justified

Mind you, I have had 4 under 5 and I was KNACKERED !!! Never again

badgerhead · 07/01/2011 13:22

The only way I know of for a childminder to look after 5 under 5 is to have an assistant there or to be working with a co minder at that time. Otherwise Ofsted will grant up to 4 under 5 but not more.

Original poster

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 13:22

Just to say she has ofsted outstanding, member of NCMA etc, which is why I guess she's been granted the variation (which I have seen, so she is 'allowed' 5 under 5).

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BradfordMum · 07/01/2011 13:24

It's unlikely she has a variation to have 5 under 5's, so unless you know for definate that she has a variation, then she's overminding and Ofsted won't be happy.

Original poster

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 13:24

oops, crossed posts. i'm going to check her ofsted report again.

she explained it to me that because 2 of the children are siblings (i.e. 4 children, 2 sets of 2 siblings), that is why. also she reassured me that if any left, she wouldn't be able to take on any more (i.e. to replace back up to 5 mindees again).

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Original poster

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 13:25

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BradfordMum · 07/01/2011 13:25

If you are not happy, then look elsewhere.

Original poster

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 13:29

yes, just checked and she has had her request granted, it's in the documentation. so all legit. i just don't know what to do really. any thoughts or advice really appreciated. thanks.

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looneytune · 07/01/2011 13:32

I'm also very surprised at the numbers as you are usually only ever granted 4 under 5s. Now she COULD have 6 under 5s (I had 5) if 2 were in full time school and not quite 5, but it doesn't sound the case.

I've had a variation for 4 under 5s for ages (and many times) and at one point I was looking after my 10 wk old and mindees aged 8 months, 17 months and 19 months. Hard work but doable. I've also (with my assistant) had 6 under 2/3 year old) with me doing most of the work but I certainly couldn't do it without that other pair of hands.

I would definitely double check the certificate though as I'm that could be allowed.

If it HAS been granted, I'd say change if you're not happy, I'd understand if you weren't as it does sound like hard work.

looneytune · 07/01/2011 13:33

Does it actually have the wording '5 in the EYFS age group'. If so, just goes to show that Ofsted make the rules up as they go along (as they always told me it wasn't allowed)

looneytune · 07/01/2011 13:34

Sorry, ignore EYFS - I meant 'Early Years' age group (they are 2 different things)

Original poster

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 13:39

it says ...

'may exceed this ratio to allow 5 children in the early years age group for the children named on the variation request of 1 December 2010 (Early Years Register, compulsory part of the Childcare Register)'

is early years age group 5 and under?

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turnitup · 07/01/2011 13:41

Also really this has been allowed.

Have been minding for 10 years and know loads of CM's and have never heard of this being allowed.

Original poster

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 13:44

is it doable?

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looneytune · 07/01/2011 13:46

That's fine but.....

turnitup · 07/01/2011 13:48

I know great CM's with 4 and I think they struggle a bit. There is always a time when one is crying / waiting because they are busy with another.

I really dont think anyone could manage that well with 5.

looneytune · 07/01/2011 13:50

Do you know how often this will be, how long for etc? I have my 4 every day (mix of children aged 2 & 3) and am finding it quite challenging at the moment due to their ages although it's fine really. Don't think I could take on another though, especially one being totally new to me. I can definitely see why you'd be concerned. For me that 1 extra would make all the difference. And there is definitely no mention of an assistant?

Original poster

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 13:50

ok ok, so u r all a bit

i can't decide what to do for the best. do i say goodbye to a good childminder or convince myself ds's will be fine? what are chances of finding someone who can look after two ds's beginning of march!? bit stressed.

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Original poster

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 13:52

no mention of an assistant.

would be an afternoon (4 in morning, 5 in afternoon).

would be 4 on the other day.

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Original poster

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 13:54

i'm self employed, so i could change days, but it would be a faff and have implications for me.

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looneytune · 07/01/2011 13:57

Ok, so although I'm it was granted, lets have a think........it's 1 afternoon a week - right? And there will be no school runs? So I guess she'll keep them in the home which I think is ok for just 1 afternoon a week. Does she have to cook meals for them all? (I do for mine and that's my worst part of the day! ).

Hmm, I think if I were you I'd probably give it a shot, see how it goes and look for signs of things being too much for her/them not being as happy. Maybe have a search for other options in case you want to give notice. Although I appreciate by doing this, you're then tied into having to give notice whilst she's working with all these children and therefore you may not be happy keeping them in during the notice period.

turnitup · 07/01/2011 13:58

It's not for that long, why dont you just see how it goes. Then look into changing hours if you think she's struggling.

The others parents probably have the same concerns as you tbh

Yes am still tho

Original poster

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 14:06

thank you . yes, it's 1 afternoon a week and she has told me she has no school runs that day. she doesn't cook meals (parents provide). in the 2 years ds1 has been going there, she tends to organise things the night before, gets up at 6 to set things up etc. she is definitely one for liking to be busy, that i know. i guess it's just at what point does it become too much and is her thoughts of what that 'point' is different to mine?

thank you for posting. ds1 is starting nursery on another day, so it may be that we take him out of the childminders anyway in time, as i think he'll benefit from the wider range of other children there. that's still undecided anyway, but i guess it gives me that option, if i feel they aren't getting the attention they need.

is it worth me voicing my concerns with her now do you think? all i've discussed is
that i've asked how many she is looking after and when. she probably took from that that i have some concerns.

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turnitup · 07/01/2011 14:10

Good plan - definitely discuss with her. If any of my parents have concerns I really like to know about them

Original poster

sheeplikessleep · 07/01/2011 14:19

just to say, thank you all for posting.

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