CM variation to look after 5 under 5

[sheeplikessleep]

Firstly, I'm happy with the CM we send DS1 to (he's 3). She's professional and does a range of different activities with him and he seems happy there.

DS2 is due to start there next month (at 11months). I've found out that at times, she will be looking after another 3 children at the same time (one also coming up to a year and 2 others coming up to 2 years). So 5 in total.

I'm in a quandry. In some ways, I'm thinking I'm worrying about nothing - she's very organised and sets activities etc up the night before, she's not doing a school run on that day she has 5. BUT, my heart also is nagging as to whether my two DSs will get sufficient attention. I guess I'm not questioning her skills. More that if I think about it, the time it takes to change 4 kids nappies, feed them, put them to bed etc (as well as having my 3 year old), there are only so many hours in the day. How can there be time left to play / interact etc?

What do others think? Would appreciate any experiences / thoughts.

Thanks

Oh yes do speak to her. Parents were worried that I was having so many so young and having just had a baby. I'd was pleased they felt able to raise those concerns and I was able to put their minds at rest without them having it festering away inside :)

I had four (none of which mine)of two and under for best part of a week recently - not my choice, parents' domestic emergency - and I was expecting to be run ragged but actually it was absolutely fine. I would say try it and see how it goes. If your CM is already used to caring for 4, 5 might not be too much of a stretch, and at least you have a plan B.

This amazes me, as many others I am really . I have had variations for years now and my most recent one to allow for twins, was still queried to check I wasn't going over 4 as 5 would never be allowed (not that I personally would want it with very little ones) but had a conversation with an inspector because of this issue alone.

yy she will welcome and value your input

As you say, she will have already realised that you have some concerns and will be happy to explain how she will deal with the individual needs of each child

(she might not go into specifics, there are certain constraints, confidentiality, that need observing)

i'll give her a call to chat through with her. thank you again.

boysarelikedogs - love your name. that in essence (with having two boys myself) is what has prompted my thoughts on this! they have so much energy, always on the go and needing exercise, that they have me cream crackered by the end of the day couldn't imagine having to care for 5 at once!

do yours bestow affection with wet noses and have a penchant for weeing alfresco ?

Best of luck my dear, and please feel free to ask any more questions as they present themselves

yes! as well as howling when they get hungry, eating absolutely anything and ds2 has a particular knack for licking my face at the moment and slobbering lots, lovely!

bless !

Just for the record, I actually do know a childminder who was allowed to have 5 under the age of 5.

Does her variation also state 2 under 1? Sorry if you have already mentioned it, or I have got the ages wrong.

I was going to say earlier about the 2 under 1 but presumed it must say that if got 5 under 5.

And sorry but I just have to at TP

I recently had a parent raise her concern with me about how I would cope with her ds (21 months) and a new mindee (10 months), btw my only mindees, for two mornings a week. A different situation from yours but I was glad that she felt comfortable enough that she could raise this concern with me and I was happy to put her mind at ease. Just an explanation of how a normal day would go and how we would all enjoy activities together went a long way.

Your cm would have had to give such a breakdown to ofsted. Speak to your cm and express your concerns. I'm sure she will be able to put you at ease, especially if she is as organised as you say.

Also, I'm sure she would not want to lose your ds if he has been with her for 2 years

Flipping heck I am shocked.

I was told categorically and absolute NO that Ofsted would NEVER allow 5 under 5.

I asked for this for short term period (I was taking a temp break) to help a very good friend out - all 5 children are siblings. The friend was extremely ill and there were other circumstances.

Ofsted would not grant it at all - even social services asked.

It ended up the children were 'farmed' out.

someone else said Ofsted make the rules up as they go along..... oh yes never a truer word spoken

I'm not doubting anyone could manage for a short time if everything ran smoothly, no wet pants to change, no upset children, no emergency.

But you would only have to have one small thing happen and I don't think you could safely manage 5 children, especially babies under 1.

I would like to see that she could cope with getting 5 children safely out of the house in an emergency, ie. gas leak. Has she got a safe place to go. How does she transport them, how do they have free access to the outside garden in the summer.

I am surprised that she has got this variation but these are questions that Ofsted would have asked so you should be able to ask them yourself just for your peice of mind.

I would also like to know where the children sleep, are they all downstairs together or does she have them in rooms, at some point she must go to the loo or check sleeping children, how does she manage it safely, if she can then fair enough but I would have my doubts. Ask to see her risk assessments and she should be able to justify her request for the variation and she shouldn't mind you asking.

thank you for posting and your thoughts.

i spoke with her yesterday and asked some questions. apparently ofsted visited for 3 hours to ask questions like you say danthe4th. it has reassured me (to an extent), as she has provisions in place (e.g. large playpen undercover outdoors, downstairs loo to change, not leaving the house during that time (i.e. no school runs). she has had the variation for a while (although the specifics has changed) and says she finds it fine. the 3 children (not mine) also reliably sleep in the afternoon at the moment, as well. i accept this might change.

i'm still in two thoughts, but i feel a little bit 'better the devil i know', as i've been happy so far. i think as my ds1 is about to start nursery, that i will keep an eye on it and assess how everything goes in the next few months. i do feel a little bit that he would benefit more from mixing with a wider age range, than just children younger than him.

the thing that concerns me is how will i know if they aren't getting the right attention? ds1 isn't the greatest speaker (although getting better).

thanks all for posting. it's appreciated and given me food for thought, thank you.

this happened to me with my two. When I started my baby there were more than I thought CM could cope with. I made the decision to switch older child to nursery as my observations were the place was chaotic with so many kids and they were cooped up on days that the full quota was there. It was the right thing to do. The CM is great but there comes a point and I saw where I needed to act. Then with second one, a similar thing occurred and I noticed i was often collecting child with very wet nappies at home time and I reckoned changing was not as frequent as i would like to the busy days. I had a word and it improved but again, it was a trigger point for me to make some other changes and I managed to get toilet training sorted. I think no matter how good a CM is, there becomes a lot of strain and I saw a deterioration in the excellent care. It was not such that I needed to leave, just to make some changes as the balance of having someone so good was important. I really like the wonderful family atmosphere provided and there are never going to be perfect care conditions. Saying that, I am just told that another increase in allocation has been allowed, no idea to what, and it raises alarm bells for me again for future.(CM has husband as registered helper but am not convinced that he will not be off contracting as labour if he gets the offer of a days work and will the childcare role come second).

thanks gallery, that's interesting about making some changes to stay with a cm you obviously rate.

ds1 started nursery on another day last week and he seems to be loving it. unfortunately, they are fully booked on the relevant day until august (that he goes to cm). so i need to trade off whether to try to change days (i'm self employed, so feasible, but a bit of a faff and not something i want to do) or see how things go until ds1 can get an extra day in nursery. difficult one. until ds2 starts at the cm, i don't know how she'll manage. even then, i won't properly 'know', which concerns me a bit too.

thanks for posting. hope your cm's allocation increase doesn't cause problems for you.

jesus.. i have 4 under 5 3 dsys a week .. it takes lots of organisation and brutal timings.. if that was 5 I would be a wreak.. seriously..