Why do cleaners earn more than childcarers

[sassyminder]

Why do people pay £10 for a cleaner and complain when it is childcare?

Cant imagine a childminder asking for £10 per hour...

Well a cleaner will generally pay their own tax, etc.

They only get paid for the hours they clean, not travelling from one job to another.

It's a physical job, the WHOLE time.

It's a grotty job, pretty much the whole time.

They have to work with nasty chemicals.

And probably lots more reasons!!!!!

Oh and a childminder looks after several children at the same time. A cleaner can't exactly clean several houses at the same time, now can she?!

It's not really an hourly rate though as you can have more than one child in your care in any one hour. You can't clean in more than one place at a time.

I pay my cleaner and part-time nanny the same per hour. Childcare is a job some people really love. Cleaning is much harder work. Also childcare can have it's relaxing moments. eg nanny watches ITV2 while the baby's asleep, and has time for a nice stroll in the park with the buggy. My cleaner has to work the whole time, she doesn't even stop for a coffee. I know which I would rather do for £8 per hour.

Round here a nanny-housekeeper is paid around £2ph more than a cleaner. Obviously there is tax etc on top of that but still getting just £2ph more to perform the majority of the tasks performed by a cleaner and then look after a number of dc all day?

I am not sure what the logic is but it seems very strange to me. I suppose it is something to do with affordability scales?

Because we still live in a patriarchal society which places less value on women and children than it does on men and the things they hold dear.

I studied childcare and my Norweigan (male) tutor was very vocal about what he saw as our pretty fucked up way of viewing the value of children and those who took care of them (mainly women). If we really valued children, we would invest in them (are you listening Mr. Cameron and whoever comes next and next and next. That investment would come in many guises, providing good quality parental leave, excellent pre-school care and a state care system, not just fit for purpose (ours is not) but that demonstrates belief in our children as our best and most valued resource.

Supply and damand? Probably more people want to look after children than clean, maybe it's a nicer job and more rewarding. My cleaner works magic in my house, does in four hours what would take me several days so worth the money for the time it saves me.

Chitchat09. childminders pay their own tax too. and looking after children is a physical work too. and looking after more than one at the same time is even more phisicall and mentally chalenging. plus childcarers are dealing with LIFE

a childminder also pays their own tax,
a childminder doesn't always have more than 1 child and when you spread the hourly wage over a week its not that much.
a childminder does get quiet times, SOMETIMES, not all children sleep at the same time therefore making having lunch or a cup of tea very difficult.
a childminder does work very hard and can be grotty at times.
a childminder can spend most of her time working for far less than the minium wage.
a childminder has a lot of paperwork to do even when not being paid.

good job a childminder generally works for the love of the job than the perks

Becasue you can afford £10 for one hour's cleaning.

But you can't afford £10 per hour for maybe 8-9 hours per day.

My bad, I was actually comparing it to a nanny, which I think is a fairer assessment as they are both in your house and can only do one 'house' at a time.

a childminder can have as many as 6-8 children at as much as £5/hr that's £40 for an hour. even if it's only for a few hours, say 2-5pm, that's far more tahn a cleaner will get in day charging £10/hour for the same amount of hours.

Dione, I find it a bit rich that someone from Norway lectures us on how to spend more taxpayers money. They with their lovely oil money and all. Maybe send some of it our way.

Free market forces. Nothing to stop a childminder from being a nanny or doing cleaning at getting their higher rates. Or charging parents more.

Im relativly full. I have 11 children on role. I work 50+ hour weeks. Market forces mean i cant charge more than £3 ph. After I take away my expenses (food, utilities, transport, outings, resources, etc) and take into account the non Childminding time I spend doing paperwork and attending training I earn a grand total of £1.18 an hour.

Bloody good job I Childmind for the love of it!

The question should be "Why do cleaners earn more than nannies" - as a cleaner and a nanny are more directly related than other forms of childcare. Childminding, nurseries, pre-schools are all forms of Group Care, where as a nanny typically only works for one family at a time. Like a cleaner, who only cleans one place at a time.

As someone else said earlier... a cleaner may clean for just a few hours a week, whereas a nanny could be doing 40+ hours a week.

Would be interested to know how much a full-time cleaner gets paid... such as a cleaner at a health club, supermarket etc (though expect even in those places the cleaners are not full-time, probably more likely doing shifts).
This Example - cleaner for health club, 48 hours over 4 weeks, Merseyside, Pay NMW.

Pink canary why cant you charge more than £3 ph, where do you live?

Because cleaning is physically much more demanding than childcare, and more unpleasant!

We had this exact thread about a month ago, but I'll repeat what I said there - cleaning is a less enjoyable job. Hard as it might be at times to work with overtired toddlers etc, putting your hands down someone else's toilet deserves the additional money imo.

Also, as said above, part-time cleaners don't really get that much if you take into account the lost time spent travelling. They also get no holiday pay, no sick pay etc - all of which bring down the actual hourly rate considerably.

Some of these responses make me feel very sad that it can be defend-able to say that just because cleaning is a "dirty job" they should get paid more.

Don't get me wrong, a good cleaner is worth £10 per hour, but I believe I should be worth more too.

I have to clean my house twice daily, in a morning before children arrive and after they leave.

Dirty toilets with pee everywhere, changing nappies, lugging non-walkers around, lifting children in and out of car seats. Believe me it is a very physical job.

Non of mine sleep so I don't get tea-break, lunch break, paperwork has to be done in the evening.

Legally by the way if we are working on our own we can only have 6 children 3 under 5, so generally during the working week my maximum income is £11.25 per hour and I am never full every day. I pay my own tax, NI, and have the general costs of keeping my house warm and lit, even if I only have 1 child at £3.75 per hour (although I know it can be claimed against tax) it still costs extra.

After working a 52 hour week last year I didn't earn more than £2.30 per hour, after all expenses were deducted.

We have shedloads of work which is put on us by the government, although they don't pay us, or give us any funding towards toys etc.

We are now expected to be highly trained professionals level 3 NVQ minimum soon.

Could you see a primary school teacher accepting this?

This makes me feel that although we are pressured to be professional, most people still don't see us as that way.

And before someone reminds me its my choice, I understand that, but I started this job pre-EYFS and the pressure that it brought and am now looking at changing my job (may even become a cleaner ). Which I struggle with as I love the children and their families, but need to have a reasonable income too.

Oh really?

Cleaners don't expect to change the nappies of a child with a bowel problem (and clothes and cleaned and disinfected the area where the child exploded).
Clean up snotty noses after they've been smeared over furniture and toys.
Clean up paint, messy play, sand, mud from play areas and around the house.
Change an average of 10-15 nappies every day.
Wipe up spills and dropped food every single meal time from 3-6 children every single week day.

Believe me, childminding involves much more yukky work than the average cleaner.

Although some childminders hire cleaners, most do the cleaning themselves in addition to all the above - only we're cleaning up our homes after the kids as well as our families. My loo, for example, is cleaned at least twice a day - preschoolers are not renowned for their aiming skills.

Oh and MisSal, I also don't get holiday/sick/bank holiday pay or any christmas bonus.

I used to wonder about this. But it is still possible for a childminder to earn £37,000 per year if she has an average of three children for 40 hours per week with full holiday pay and a rate of £6 per hour (more in some parts of London). Childminders need to be skilled in many more areas and are essential to thosewho have school age children. Cleaners are a dispensable luxury so they are more vulnerable to belt tightening in a recession and it is less rewarding work generally.

DIONE
"Because we still live in a patriarchal society which places less value on women and children than it does on men and the things they hold dear."
That's exactly what I was going to say.

You just put it more eloquently.

Ah Rosie, I guess it differs by area / your contract, but most childminders around here do charge for holiday - either a couple of weeks separately or to spread costs calculate it into their hourly fees. My argument is a general one though - most childminders do charge for holiday, most self-employed cleaners do not.

One thing that does not apply to all or perhaps even most (I don't know how many), but if you have small children, at least you won't have the additional childcare costs for your own children that you would have if you had to go out and clean in other locations.

I'm not saying childminding is easy - of course it isn't, I wouldn't be able to do it myself (and I'm saying this having a really full-on job), but I just think cleaners doesn't have it as easy or get such a lot of money compared to, as per the OP, child carers as people sometimes makes out.