Why do cleaners earn more than childcarers

[sassyminder]

Why do people pay £10 for a cleaner and complain when it is childcare?

Cant imagine a childminder asking for £10 per hour...

A childminder can mind more than one child and so easily increase their hourly income to beyond that of a cleaner.

And do people really believe that if work is more physically demanding you should be paid more for it? That's one of the reasons why men are often paid far more than women.

I know lots of people who hire a nanny for 9+ hours a day, 5 days a week. I know lots of people who hire a cleaner for 2-3 hours a week. I don't know anyone who has a cleaner for 9 hours a day, 5 days a week.

I do, however, know people who've worked full time as a cleaner in supermarkets and office blocks. they earned only a few pence over the minimum wage. You aren't comparing like with like.

I'd rather be a cleaner than a childminder. Not harder at all.

As c/ms we are looking after the most precious things parents could possibly own - their children. Far more precious than any office/ house or it's contents being cleaned! If you are not a child carer you will never understand the worry and resposibility that goes with it. I have never understood how a cleaner can be paid more.

Oh ffs, not this old chestnut again.

A childminder who looks after one child at a time (or who works for only one family) is not a childminder, she's a nanny. And she would probably earn more then a cleaner for doing so.

A childminder looks after several children at once. So she also earns more than a cleaner.

A cleaner works 2-3 hours a week for a family, getting paid around £20-£30 for doing so.

A childminder, per full-time charge, works say 9 hours a day, 5 days a week, so that's 45 hours a week, at £5 an hour, so that's £225 a week.

If childcare cost £10 an hour not many would be able to afford it. It's a pointless argument.

I get so pissed off with posts implying that people value a clean house more than their children simply because of the difference in hourly rate.

I pay £80 a month on my cleaner. £1500 on childcare. Does that answer your question in very simple terms?

WE are talking about what the cleaner/cm earns not what you pay.
A registered childminder who looks after 1 child in her own home, £4 per hour, 7 hours a day, 5 days a week = £140 per week. Not a nanny btw.
A cleaner cleans 2 houses a day (3 hours at each), 5 days a week, £10 per hour = £300 per week.
Roughly same amount of hours worked. c/m could increase number of children but poss can't if she has her own little ones under 5.
Plain fact is cleaner gets £10 per hour and reg c/m gets £4 per hour.
It's a matter of choice i guess how we decide to earn our money, I should perhaps be a cleaner now i've done the sums! love c/m tho. Won't carry this on as think it one of 'those ones'.

But funnylady, your argument that a childminder with her own child under 5 can't increase her numbers doesn't make sense for comparison, because then you can argue that a cleaner with children under 5 needs to pay for their childcare whilst she earns, thereby reducing her own net hourly rate.

Try being a care assistant!

I'm always a little baffled why this argument crops up anyway. Different jobs have different rates of pay, for various reasons.

I guess it's because these are two jobs where it's working parents paying for the service. But it's still comparing apples and pears IMO.

They're completely different jobs, with different terms of service and very different variables as to how much any one individual earns.

As I said, I get really annoyed when people use this pointless argument to try to imply that working parents don't value their children or their carers.

This is a very silly argument. Agree with Annie.
I'm a teacher and plenty of professions (including some nannies!) earn more than I do. My job pays what it pays. I knew this when I made the career choice.

Agree with Annie and StarExpat about the futility of attributing a relative value to jobs. Many jobs like teaching or junior doctor have so much unpaid overtime that per hour many of them are earning less than minimum wage.

Annie's statement: "I pay £80 a month on my cleaner. £1500 on childcare. Does that answer your question in very simple terms?" pretty much sums it up for a lot of parents.

Childcare is at the limit of its affordability for a lot of parents because of the cumulative numbers of week it is required. CMs/nannies could of course charge more, but there will quickly come a point when the parent might was well upgrade to a more convenient form of childcare like nannies or give up work altogether.

Hence, the pay for carers is what it is. Hardly anything to do with the 'patriarchy'.

Childcare has to be cheap otherwise it's not worth the parents going back to work.

Just the way it is.

Jojay - it's far from cheap. But I agree that it has to be affordable for the consumers. If it was too high, then many, many people would not be able to afford to work (and probably consequently, be in debt, unable to afford household bills...etc... but that's another issue!)... and if many people could not afford childcare, then many childcarers would be out of work.

People (not me!) can afford £20 per week for their cleaner's 2 hours in their home in addition to childcare, but paying this rate X 40 hours per week may be unaffordable. It has nothing to do with patriarchy or that parents don't respect or value their childcarers

I agree it's not cheap - our monthly childcare bill is bigger than our mortgage

But you get the gist

Ours too! Dh nearly passed out when I told him how much it would be. However, it's far better having what's left of our salaries after the cost at the end of each month and being able to pay all of our bills. And my cm is the best.

Scary isn't it! The other little gem I worked out the other day is that I pay my cm more than I'm left with at the end of the month.

So she has my 2 kids two days a week, I work in a management job 3 days a week (Dh has the boys the other day) and she makes more out of it than I do!

Serves me right for having kids close together!

But for those who complain that childminders are badly paid ( and I agree, none of them are exactly rolling in it) the rest of us who have to deduct childcare costs from our pay packets are hardly raking it in either.

Jojay - I can almost guarantee she doesn't make more than you, she has expenses

I know. I have a friend with a nanny who makes more than she does .

I have only 1 child (and this discussion is a big reason that he will stay an only child) and currently my cm takes home more from my pay monthly than I end up with. But... needs must. :)

Do parents not have expenses as well?

I understand she has expenses, but they'd have to be a hell of a lot to end up making less than me

"but if you have small children, at least you won't have the additional childcare costs for your own children that you would have if you had to go out and clean in other locations"

Yes we do. Parents on our income are able to claim working tax credits to assist with the cost of childcare - up to 80% of childcare costs. We are debarred from claiming, even though our child is taking up a fulltime place that we can't offer to another child.

If we were to send out child to another setting or carer, that child would still be taking up a fulltime place with us, so our childcare costs are actually more than most parents have to pay.

Parents do have expenses, of course, but I've yet to hear of a parent who had to undertake training, first aid qualification, registration and insurance as well as provide the kind of resources that childminders are expected to provide.

I'd also like to point out that the OP is talking about parents who begrudge paying their childminder's fees - i.e. who don't value their childminders, not the average parent who thinks we're all wonderful (which we are, of course )

I'm a teacher (not british school, so a bit different). Yearly first aid qualification, every 5 years renewing my teaching license (££) and going on courses (££) in order to keep it all up to date - other things as well. BUt I do think that the requirements for CMs are incredible. The paperwork is beyond belief.

I don't get tax credits or child credits benefit or whatever all that is. I do get the salary sacrifice pre tax voucher which is worth a savings of £70/month.

It just can't all be compared. Apples to bananas to oranges to pears :)

True, Tanith. I do value my cm. She's amazing. The best. And I don't begrudge a penny that I pay her (and I wish I could afford to pay her more!).

But I do think the point that people value a cleaner more because they are paid more is nuts.

It's just the way it is.

Of course you can pay more per hour for a service you only need for a couple of hours per week.

Oh, I agree, but I don't think the OP is saying that. I think she's grumbling about the people who happily pay their cleaners a higher rate, but moan about their childcare costs.
I used to have a mum who paid heaven knows what to stable her horse, yet kept moaning about my fees It definately gave the impression that the quadruped came first in her life!

(don't get vouchers, either )