How attractive could this be to a nanny?

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Hi, am a nanny newbie (meaning we are looking to employ our first nanny) and would appreciate some advice from those with more experience to see whether the following arrangements could be attractive for a nanny (and if not, how to improve them).

I will probably go back to work 3 days a week in January/February, when DS will be one; ideally I will be one day in the office and two days at home, or viceversa. We are thinking of having a nanny for 3 and 1/2 days a week, probably working 8am til 6.30/7pm on the days I am in the office, 8am til 5pm when I am at home and 8am til middayish on the fourth, for a total of 36/37 hours.

I would expect the nanny to cook from scratch and do usual nursery duties when baby is asleep or I am playing with him (e.g. for lunch break on the days I work from home). We have a cleaner, so nanny would only need to look after self and baby and leave kitchen and play areas tidy. I would probably want her to take DS to playground and possibly one or two playgroups, but most of the time it would be one-to-one care.

On ground rules, we have not thought v much about it, but it would be something along these lines:

1. no smoking anywhere- not in the garden, not at home.
2. No hot drinks in the same room as the baby- ever (I know too many people with scars from hot beverages spilt on them when they were kids).
3. DS not to be taken to playdates with people we do not know. We are to meet the family at the weekend before playdates arranged during the week.
4. DS not to go in places where there are pets/other animals/smoking (we are an allergic family, DS likely to be allergic too).
5. no tv
6. no ready made food, no junk food and no eating out for main meals
7. DS to have culturally appropriate mealtimes (i.e. DS not to have had supper when returned to parents at 7pm)

Do we sound like the employer from hell or is this par for the course? All advice gratefully received

Sorry that should be 'some (not all)''

cafe food for kids round here is generally horrifying... sandwiches

Really - are sandwiches horrifying? I'd say the no-smoking thing is fine, the pets thing... well it also makes me ill (although not as bad as you, more painfully itchy), what effect does exposure have on allergies? i.e. if DS exposed to pets from early age is he less/more/similarly likely to be affected?

Re playdates and cafes - I'd say you're being a bit unreasonable. I have nanny friends (I'm a CM) and we often go for a coffee/snack in a
cafe after going to the park - they bring food from home for their children (at parents request), but all the toddlers sit together and get used to the rules of eating out.

Generally if nanny is allowed to socialise over drinks etc then they're happy = kids happy. Nanny forced to eat all meals alone with unverbal child = unhappy nanny = unhappy kids.

Sorry disjointed post as had lots of interruptions this am... :)

The bread used to make sandwiches can be shocking.

I think you are suffering from PFB syndrome. I am quite allergic to cats. SO, I have been on the lookout for signs from DCs since they were born. Now 5 and 7, neither has revealed a single symptom. I make the nanny aware of my allergy and tell her to be on the look out. I don't ban the children from ever being in a house with a cat. The only thing I do insist on (and it's in the house rules) is that a cat is never allowed in my house.

You want to approve all play dates. If you feel this is appropriate, then you are not suited to the world of nanny employment. When you hire a nanny you have to accept that she is capable of doing her job and sometimes you have to step back and let her do it. My children often come home talking about other children I have never met. Sometimes they are from school, sometimes the gym, maybe the local park, dance class, swimming... wherever. This is all fine with me. It's nice they have social skills and don't need me to help them make a friend.

No ready made food? Really? Ever???? I am going to pass the nutrition geschtapo title to you. My nutrition guidlines talk about the content of the meal, not whether it was made and frizen. For example:
1- no nutrasweet or other artificial sweetners
2- eggs for breakfast twice a week
3- salmon once a week
4- one fruit and one veg as minimum every day
5- No junk before lunch
6- no caffeine
7- no citrus fruit for DD (health reasons here)
8- crappy white bread to be avoided if there is another option

and so on... I'm okay with some ready meals. For example Youngs makes a fish pie with veg that my kids like. I am not okay with mcdonalds. When I spotted it on the credit card bill a few months ago I did ask nanny not to go there again.

Wow, did not expect this much interest. Thanks everyone for the replies- very interesting and lots of food for thought. Had certainly not considered that "rules" would send more experienced candidates away and leave the less experienced ones.

You all also make very good points about there needing to be trust- I guess not having interviewed anybody yet, I do not know whether I could trust them with the most precious and most vulnerable person in my life. Despite what earlier posts may suggest, I am in fact reasonably relaxed (I think) and the person who looks after DS currently (and who sadly cannot increase her hours) does take him to the park etc.

Allergies: passing dogs in the street or in the park is fine. Sometimes even going to a house with pets is fine- if it is very clean, has wooden floors and neither DH nor I sit on sofas, armchairs etc. Sometimes it is not, and I would not want DS to have first asthma attack on the nanny's watch (or mine, for that matter, but we are told it is pretty much guaranteed). I guess no pets would mean in reality "please don't take DS to farms, circus, zoo or houses with pets and be careful (e.g. cover sofas with a fleece blanket or similar) if children from house with pets come round". On exposure to allergens, DS's paediatrician recommends avoiding houses with pets. We follow her advice on other matters and would like to do so on this one as well. I was exposed to horses, cats and dogs as a child and they are the animals I am most allergic too (v annoying, as I used to love riding, but allergy got so bad- even with medication- that I had to give up).

And of course there could be sensible exceptions to no TV (but TV ok if cbeebies and only v occasional and limited time, e.g. when child is ill) and not eating out too often. Obviously better to eat out than to overtire the child by having to rush home and then out again when eating in a nice cafe near the activities would be preferable.

As one of the posters says, we only have hot drinks in a different room from DS (or a good few metres away from him). So yes, I never have tea if DS is within 5 metres (he now rolls v quickly, so minimum distance is increasing).

Sandwiches: as NannyNick says, it depends on what they are made with. The ones I have seen in some allegedly child-friendly places round here did not look good at all. Bread thing is probably being a foreigner, but we tend to have fresh bread every day (fresh as in made that morning) and would want kids to have that most of the time.

I think the way you've rephrased the pet thing is fair enough. But I think the no hot drinks is probably a bit OTT. You need to be able to trust your nanny to be careful around your DS.

I also think if you were considering a nanny share you would have to relax a lot of your rules - or are you going to insist that the other child spends all the time at your house?

Nanny employer here. No smoking, precaution around pets rules are fine - no hot drinks near the child fine also (most experienced nannies know to put on high surface out of reach and not to carry child and hot drink about - but you cant ban them from having hot drinks at all!). The rest of the rules seem abit OTT and are probably going to put off applicants. And your child may not be willing to wait till 7pm for a meal - my 4 year old and 1 and a half year old would be climbing the walls if they ate at that time (DH and I eat at around 8.30pm) so eat earlier. You have to let your nanny have some flex and to respond to the child's desires and needs too.

Strix: yes, I am afraid no ready meals, ever. DH and I never have them (and never have, since we have been living together), so would not want DS to have them either. Plus, I see it as part of the nanny's job to educate DS's palate (yes, I know this sounds pretentious, sorry, cannot think of another way of putting it at the moment) and cook him fresh, healthy meals. For when they are in a hurry, there is always some pasta sauce or soups that I have made and frozen.

But I guess all of this boils down to what many of you have said: find the right person, on the same wavelength, and there will be no need for many rules (expressed as wishes/preferences) because that person (male or female) will choose appropriate playdates/food/entertainment.

Some of you asked about perks. Not sure whether these would count:

1. largish house with garden
2. longish holidays (we tend to be away for 6 weeks every year)
3. possibility of trips abroad (maybe when DS goes to see grandparents and we cannot go with him)
4. would the compressed hours be a perk or at least something that makes the job attractive?

Many of you mention mealtimes as a possible issue. Would expect DS to lunch around 1, nap and have milk and bread with jam, a milkshake or something similar between 4 and 5, so that he has enough energy to wait and have supper when we get home. That's how it worked for us when we were children and it was fine.

Hmmm longish holidays might be a perk, as long as you're clear it's all paid and nanny gets to choose her share of holiday.

Holidays abroad to grandparents definitely not a perk if nanny is expected to work. In fact it's extra hassle and some people will not consider the job if it's a requirement! If it's a case of accompanying DS on the journey, going on a jaunt for a week or so, and coming back then that would be a perk as the flight would be paid!

I think as long as nanny is clear about your expectations re: mealtimes that shouldn't be a problem - they just need to know that's what you expect and feed DS accordingly.

By compressed hours what do you mean? Mostly nannies are paid hourly so compressed hours, in effect, means less money unless you're offsetting it with a higher salary.

I think you need to interview nannies and see what they think. Personally I'd sit through the interview thinking you were a bit overprotective and hope that in time you'd grow to trust me to make decisions about playdates etc. I think it's fairly reasonable to ask, at least while your DS is tiny, to meet nannies before DS goes on a playdate to their house. Restricting meet-ups in public places would ring alarm bells for me though. You might find one who's fine with all your strictures.

I would be backing away tbh

not because of any of the rules in particular, although the hot drinks/no playdates without you interviewing the parents/no cafes/no accidental encounters with animals are all quite silly IMO

it's more that you sound ver uptight and controlling and I would think that you were going to be a nightmare to work for

either you entrust your ds' care to a nanny during the hours she has him, or you do not

also what the f* is the matter with sandwiches for a child's lunch?

Interesting one of nanny taking DS abroad, going off and just taking him back. Def worth thinking about.

By compressed hours I meant 36/37 hours over 3 and a half days instead of 5, therefore leaving half a week free for the nanny to do what she wants. In my line of business it is called compressed hours and is very coveted, so was wondering whether it would be similarly welcome by a nanny (whom we envisage living out).

And now another important one. We intend DS to grow up bilingual, as my first language (as you can prob tell from my posts) is not English; DH is English and each of us speaks their language to DS. We would probably want the nanny to take DS to a bilingual playgroup that is not local to where we live and, where possible, socialise mostly with nannies to families with the same first language.The language is a major European one and the playgroup is likely to be in Kensington/Fulham while we live south of the river. Questions:

1. How do you think this would go down?
2. Would most nannies expect to go to the playgroup by public transport (would prob take about 45mins to 1 hour)?
3. Is bilingualism a put off if the nanny does not speak the other language?

Greensleeves- thanks for the feedback, but I would add that the way I have written this is not the way I would present it to the potential nanny. I am canvassing views precisely to avoid being offputting to the right candidate.

People who report to me at work have generally been v happy (anonymous feedback through 360 appraisals) so I would hope to be able to transfer some of those managerial skills to the home. Although I say I intend to work from home, I certainly do not intend to interfere with what the nanny is doing, which is why it is important to me to find somebody whom I can trust to care for my child in the way in which I would do it.

On sandwiches, these are my views for my child, am not suggesting that I am right or that what others do is wrong. For my DS (and DH, and me) the occasional sandwich when having a picnic is fine, but not for a normal meal, when i would expect him to sit at the table and have something hot and freshly cooked. But as I say, my views for my family.

Don't you think swearing at me for disagreeing about the diet of a child you do not know might be a bit aggressive?

Taking everything in now - I think you're way too OTT. I think you'll find it hard to not only find a nanny but keep one as well. You want a nanny who may not speak this language to schlep your DS across London to a playgroup where she most likely will not be able to socialise with anyone there, and yet you have issues with her meeting up with other nannies you haven't met?

Strix you have def lost your title and you forgot to mention no choc spread

I'm also severley allergic to cats and horses

OP - it's good you listen and take heed of what has been said - means there may be hope

again as frakk said, taking to gps isn't a perk and being away from home in my contract would mean extra pay/compensation

it all comes down to trust. Either you will trust the nanny you chose or you won't

if you won't/don't then no point in having one

Starberries: interesting. Do you think the solution is to focus recruitment on nannies who speak my language then? The need for the playgroup would then be smaller, as DS would be exposed to my language through the nanny.

1. How do you think this would go down?

Probably fine, you have good reasons but see below...

1. Would most nannies expect to go to the playgroup by public transport (would prob take about 45mins to 1 hour)?

Probably, unless you want to pay for them to go on your car but then parking is a nightmare and it's probably quicker on public transport anyway. Given that, it might not be a massively popular, especially if you won't let them eat out or make a day of it though! Are you sure there isn't a group closer?

1. Is bilingualism a put off if the nanny does not speak the other language?

No BUT I have found it difficult working with parents where they speak to the child in a language I don't even if they spoke fluent English. My Norweigan, however, did come on a treat.... Therefore I'd suggest looking for someone who speaks, or at least understands, your language (and if it's the one I suspect it is from the playgroup area reference, the snack and the fresh bread) it shouldn't be too difficult. It makes the working relationship much smoother if as a nanny you can understand what the mother has said to the child and reinforce it. Problems arise when you reply directly to the child in one language saying no, the other person doesn't understand, child asks them the question, you don't hear/understand and child gets a different answer.

I think you might want to look at having a fluent/bilingual nanny, especially if you want them socialising with the children of other families of that language. Your DS is so young that they will play together in the language of their carers if they have the choice.

nope, I don't think f* with three of the letters starred out is aggressive, especially not on a website where "wtf" is one of the most common acronyms

I do think describing sandwiches as "horrifying" is a bit bonkers though

Up to an hour travel each way to a playgroup is too much for the nanny or child

why public transport? Do you not trust the nanny to either drive your car or her own?

On phone so can't do long answers!

If yourserious about hit drinks, then by some travel mugs and ask that they use them with hot drinks

I've had to.do.this before and was fine with it....meant I.actually got a warm.drink.at times!

Meeting playdates etc before hand- I would hate this! And completely feel.you didn't trust my judgement....my boss has met 2 of our "regular" friends....doesn't ever ask about others and isn't fussed

Frakkinnakered- I think we'd get along if you were looking for a nannying job! You might disagree though...

Seriously, this discussion has been very useful, as it means that when I go home tomorrow I can start seeing if I can find somebody there who would like to come and work for us in England. Then trips home to the grandparents would be welcome as s/he could go home to his/hers, food and routine might be more familiar etc. But on the other hand s/he would have to start life in new country, possibly in a language they do not speak well. And that is not easy...

Do people think it is worth speaking to an agency when looking for a nanny that understands a relatively less-known European language (no, Frakkinnakered, we are not French, sadly, or life would be easier!)?

blondes, OP is in london and traffic/parking can be harder than tube. If the nanny has only one child it can be easy and fun to use the tube in non-rush hours.

But it will be a shame to miss on the nice cafes in kensington. Let her have a cuppuccino and a nice baquete

Sadly I'm on the other side of the world to you! And I suspect I don't meet your language requirements (I can do French or Italian and cope with German but would only be 100% comfortable with French!). But best of luck finding someone

Have a look in your home country - you might find someone who is interested. Have a look around the expat community in London and put feelers out on Gumtree with XXXX speaking nanny required in the header. A lot of European nannies find it difficult to get jobs if they don't speak great English so you might find it easier than you think.

Agency-wise there are those who specialise in bilingual nannies, or at least those speaking another language, and it's always worth a chat.

What language are you looking for? I'm now leaning towards Spanish having ruled out French...

Are you Italian?