Nanny giving bogus reference - from us!

[Violettta]

About a year ago our then nanny left. We'd had some concerns about her behaviour (e.g. leaving the children - 2 and 4 - alone in their room while she had a 'rest' in the living room and being evasive about who they'd seen during the day), but she left of her own accord (she gave notice but never turned up to serve it out). Shortly afterwards, she sent a pretty unpleasant letter to my partner - criticising everything from her attitude to her cleanliness. We figured she'd never ask for a reference after that, so she must be planning to airbrush us out of her CV.

Her replacement is leaving to go to University, so we've advertised for a new nanny and - obviously unaware of who we are - the previous nanny has applied. She's sent a copy of our CV which not only refers to her time with us, but also names us as a reference - with a bogus telephone number. So we rang up the number and spoke to someone who claimed to be my partner - although I'm fairly confident it wasn't, given that she was sat next to me at the time - and gave a glowing reference.

In the light of this, we're concerned about whether her other references were genuine (mainly mobile numbers, some of which hadn't connected when we tried to take them up before employing her). We feel we should raise this with someone - she is Ofsted registered, but since this is voluntary, even if she was unregistered by Ofsted, this wouldn't stop her taking up positions elsewhere. And it wouldn't stop her getting work on the back of these bogus references. At the same, the misrepresentation probably isn't so serious as to get police involved, and the sort of concerns we had wouldn't be so serious as to say that children were being put at serious risk.

However, we do feel that anyone employing her should be aware of our concerns - or at least should have the opportunity and information to make up their own mind.

Any suggestions what we should do? And do beware that references may not be all they seem. Research your childcarer's referees and attempt to contact them through other means (e.g. work phone numbers) if at all possible.

It's fraud, I'd be tempted to go to the police.

How come she didn't realize it was you?

I'd be deeply concerned about fraudulent references. I'm not sure if this is however something OFSTED would take an interest in, or would be able to police effectively. Sorry not to be able to offer constructive advice: perhaps another poster will be able to do so.

Not ofsted, chances are that she's not registered. It's fraud to give references like this, you should go to the police.

I would def go to the police. Not only is it fraud but she is doing it because she obviously has something to hide and potentially future children could be harmed because their parents think she has genuine good references. i think you should go to the police about this to try and stoop her getting work fraudulently

not sure how she didnt reliese that the job was yours, didnt she get your name/details etc

i would send out my cv before meeting a family but certainly wouldnt send out refs before meeting the family

but yes it is fraud and you say she is ofsted registered so i would contact them and morton michel (who she is prob 99% with them as ofsted nannys need insurance) and either mm or ncma do insurance

i would ring all agencys in the area and tell them what has happened and ask if they checked her refs and if so , do you remmember talking to them, or was it another friend who was you

wonder what she has been doing for the past year, and who the reference is for that time

when I was a law student, many moons ago,"obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception" was an offence. So it's a police matter, although I don't suppose the police will do much, given cuts, etc etc. I should contact OFTSED and any agency she's involved with if she is and tell them. Tell the police but don't expect....

I'd go to the police as not only is she making fraudulent claims, she is also doing it in relation to a post with responsibility for minors. Does she have a CRB that checks out? She'd have to for the Ofsted registration but if that is in doubt then so might the CRB be.

You really cannot know what else she may be hiding or covering up and as such I think she needs to be stopped in whatever way necessary.

Hopefully it is a 'just' case of her glossing over a tricky time with you and that this was one blip in her career but the level of deceit required to set up false references concerns me regarding her integrity.

I would not want to find myself having employed someone this lacking in principles and honesty, and dishonesty pervades many areas of a person's life I feel. Therefore I think you almost have a duty to report this to police as fraud just in case she is capable of more serious and unspeakable wrong doing.

I have had CVs with phone numbers sent to me before from Gumtree ads. I have to say it's not something I'd viewed with suspicion before. But I guess on reflection, a 'real' reference wouldn't expect their name and telephone number to be flying around to strangers before they'd been properly consulted by a former employee.

I'm guessing you got the CV and called the ref out of curiosity?

I think I would call the police, for the reasons that Hobgoblin said. And OFSTED.

Who did you say you were when you called the reference? Just slightly concerned by the nanny's nasty letter.

How on earth can she not realise who you are after only a year?

Another recommendation to go to the police.

In answer to some of the questions, we posted our new vacancy on Gumtree (which is how we found all our nannies - although from now on we are going with a childminder). Applicants can see your advertisement and the rough area you live in.

Our old nanny was probably applying for lots of jobs on Gumtree and simply didn't notice that the ages and location could have applied for us (we live in a built up area with lots and lots of young families). Not very clever and an unfortunate coincidence for her!

I don't believe that there is anything really sinister about it - although of course one can never be sure - just that she is a difficult personality who thinks there's an easy way out of her bad relationships with parents. I wouldn't wish her on another family but future employers should at least have the opportunity to get an honest reference, or no reference at all, to make up their minds.

Any further thoughts very welcome...

Thanks for all the advice!

i would arrange an interview at a cafe etc and then see what she says face to face about her lying about your reference (catch her out)

as she has lied about this then makes you wonder what else she lies/bends the truth about

Despicable! Blondes has a very evil mind, I like it , I highly doubt the police would do anything to be honest except go .

If she is registered with Ofsted, you mentioned she was, then I'd ring them and bring this to their attention, I don't think anyone else would bother to be honest, sad as it is!

Shameful.

Violetta - if you do get the the point if providing a reference for this nanny I would consider declining to make a reference rather than give her a negative one as you could leave yourself open to a lawsuit.

"We'd had some concerns about her behaviour...........but she left of her own accord" - could imply your concerns over her care of your children were not enough for you to terminate her employment.

I am not an expert in this, but my company they decline to give out references if they are negative as it is a legal minefield now.

I don't know what else you can do to stop her, short of alerting OFSTED or the police. No, I don't think either would launch a massive investigation but I do think it's possible she'd get a phone call. Which may be enough to scare her. I'm not sure I'd approach her directly as she sounds like a vindictive sort of person. Much as I would love to see the look on her face as she walked into the cafe...

Hey alternatively to the cafe scenario, do you have a friend who could pose as someone looking for a nanny? She's obviously not clear about who she sent her CV to. And I agree, with the Gumtree ads, people just press 'SEND' and don't give a second thought oftentimes what's happening next.

Your friend could then 'notice' your name as a reference and then that she's knows you? And see the reaction? You would then have an opportunity to take things up with her from there, like by saying you would 'take things further' if she didn't stop her tactics.

Not sure I would do this, mind, I'd probably take advice from OFSTED/the police first. But maybe it's an option...or maybe my imagination is running away with me!

Ooh, I would love to play the part, Are you in SW London by any chance???

I wondered the same AngryPixie!

Also wondered if I possibly knew who this nanny was (but probably not - fairly sure that would be too much of a coincidence!).

the thought crossed my mind too Jezebel, I think I had a 'rogue reference' nanny, her name began with M.

Ah no, not the one I'm thinking of! Im sure there are a fair few out there tho (and this is coming from a nanny!).

I would doubt that the police, Ofsted, social services or anyone really will be able to do anything. If it's putting a child at risk then they may be interested.

References be they written or verbal can be fake. How parents can spot that (in this case it was obvious but usually that would not be the case) and what can be done about it? Makes references worthless. Maybe that has always been the case really... references are just one of many things to take into account. Things like how the nanny responds to the children, how they respond to questions from parents, and a trial period/probationary period are how you find out if the nanny is good or not. What do you think? Should much notice be taken of references given that they can be faked?

agree police prob wouldnt do much, apart from maybe a visit from them saying fraud and give her a bollocking talking to

i am very suprised that ofsted and even mm wouldnt be interested

i would def try to arrange a meeting and see what she says face to face - hopefully she will be shamed, and also speak to her current employer and see if she apparently spoke to you

also entrigued what the letter said

We don't know OFSTED wouldn't be interested though. I would give it a go.

Esp if you have a paper trail, like an email to you etc.

whatever you do, youi have to let us know though!

Nanny Nick in answer to your last question yes. But what?

Not sure I get you Harriet.

I would wonder how common false references are.

It's like fake £1 coins - they exist, yet I've not seen one yet. Does that devalue every £1 coin? No... not yet at least. Though once there are too many fake £1 coins around, then they won't be accepted by retailers/people, thus would need to be reminted.

In an ideal world people would not make up false references. Alas the world isn't ideal. So Yes references are still useful in the majority of cases. It's just that some of them may not be all they first seem. Suppose it's a case of - How you can spot the fakes - not sure there is a way.

What I meant to say was are there any guidelines or any further steps parents can take to make sure references aren't faked. What's best practice.

I tend to go by the landline rule, for example, no mobile numbers, but maybe that's increasingly less practical these days? And no Yahoo email accts, but sometimes maybe people don't want that sort of dialogue over a work email so maybe that's unreasonable too?

And nannies out there - what sort of information are former employers happy to provide in your experience and when do say privacy considerations take over, i.e. refusing to disclose place of work if one were to take up OPs suggestion in the initial post?

OP sorry for the hijack...but I think these are reasonable questions. Your post has shaken me a bit I have to say!