Anyone up for a VBAC support thread?

[Chulita]

I'm 34+3 and baby's currently OP. Had an emcs with DD 19 months ago and I'm desperate for a VBAC but there seem to be so many variables and I'm just dreading another OP labour.
Anyone fancy joining?

Ummlaya thanks for those stats, v interesting, definately food for thought.

Thanks for the links mitfordsister. My ELCS is booked for 3 days after my due date, I may put it back until a week or so. They said I could review it when I go in to sign the forms the week before. Im hoping I go into labour naturally before that, my friends does acupuncture so will do my points to encourage labour when Im 39 weeks.

Acupuncture or shiatsu can help with fetal positioning, also preparing for labour - shiatsu is good as no needles and really relaxing too.

Wowoo it is good to hear a positive experience of VBAC.

Hi to bababelle - be interesting to hear about your preparation session, and latruncha - not surprised at the 6-8 hr thing, was told I would be on a "very tight protocol" and must have fetal scalp monitor which is annoying as it makes it hard to move around. Think I need to stay at home as long as possible! Hadnt heard you couldnt have epidural (didnt work last time for me anyway) but it definately slows things down so probably best to avoid.

The more I find out, the more I really want VBAC, thanks for starting this thread Chulita

Thanks emmie always happy to hear positive stories

latrucha I keep swinging from waiting it out to just thinking stuff it and do the cs. I really, really don't want a cs and am willing to try a breech vbac if need be but how long do you give a transverse baby? ho hum...more things to worry think about.

Does anyone know if moxibustion works on transverse babies?

pinkgrapefruit you don't have to have a fetal scalp monitor if you don't want it. You could opt for the external one or none at all if you want. You don't have to agree to anything. I'm going to push for intermittent monitoring - something like on for 15 mins, off for 15 mins just so I can wander without worrying about wires!

I've been doing the spinning babies thing for a fortnight to shift from OP, last night I was on my left side when it shifted...with a baby that stubborn what more can I do? I'm sick to the backteeth of OFP especially after last night...

Sorry, I'll go off and find something positive to say before I post again

Just popping on with another positive VBAC story -- here is a link to my hot-off-the-press thread when DD had just been born.

DS was OP and asynclitic which is why I would up with a EMCS after 40 hours of labour first time. My midwife with DD was very positive about VBAC -- at my booking-in appointment she arrived having already reviewed my notes from DS's birth and discussed with me why the c/s had happened (she was actually the first person to explain the asynclitic bit, or at least the first person to explain it while I was in any state to take it in) and that my odds for a successful VBAC were good. And throughout the pregnancy she kept me updated on how the hospital's statistics on successful VBACs for those attempting them were going (I think they were running at about 76% towards the end, which gave me a lot of added confidence).

My personal "rules" for the VBAC were (a) no induction of any kind (pessaries or syntocinon) -- cases of scar rupture are overwhelmingly associated with induction or augmentation of labour. If it had come to that point (and I would have held out until at least 40+10) I would have gone for the ELCS. (b) labour at home for as long as possible (c) as little intervention as possible (I felt that the interventions first time round had probably contributed to the asynclitic position) (d) no epidural if I could help it (had a bad epidural experience first time) but I wasn't ruling it out.

I also liked this Mary Cronk article]] and studied the NICE guidelines carefully.

Hi again

Gwennie F - no, have had no meeting with consultant and no chat with midwife. My other post wasn't very clear, when I said no-one had talked to me about VBAC I meant no health professionals. But I've heard a lot of stuff from other people (no epidurals, no food during labour etc) which is why I was wondering if I would get called in at some point for a big chat. V interested in the sound of the VBAC prep session Bababelle. Will have to enquire if my hospital offer the same thing.

I heard the no epidural thing from 2 different people who had successful VBACs in different hospitals. Both were told it minimised the risk of scar rupture as they needed to be able to self-monitor how the scar was feeling and an epidural would have prevented that. Awful that there is so much information / misinformation floating around about something so important. I feel like I'm relying on hearsay at the minute rather than medical facts!

La Trucha - I feel very similar to you. Having a VBAC has become so important to me I'm scared that I'm going to be really disappointed if it doesn't happen. My c-sec and recovery were horrendous and I'm desperate to avoid another one if possible.

My "discuss VBAC with consultant" session (had VBAC in 2008) consisted of long wait to see harassed underling who barely had time to glance at my notes and whose sole discussion of the topic was "so, you still want to have a VBAC?". Something of an anticlimax all round, actually.

Chulita, this has some research on moxibustion for breech babies which might be of interest:

acupuncture.rhizome.net.nz/

This is a brilliant website run by Debra Betts who, from what I remember, is a midwife in New Zealand who specialises in acupuncture and acupressure. There are some links to research about moxibustion on the right.

There's also a downloadable booklet on acupressure points that can be used to aid the progression of labour which may be of interest to others.

Hello, I would like to join too.

I am 18 weeks with DC2, so quite early on. However tomorrow I have my hospital's "Birth Options Clinic". From what my MW has said it sounds like it is set up to persuade people to go for VBAC over ELCS. So, it sounds like they are quite pro VBACs. I have just started writing down all my questions about my last delivery and about the forthcoming one, and it has made me realise how many unanswered questions I have about DS's delivery.

The short version is that I was induced at 42 weeks. Managed slowly and painfully with every drug in the book to get to 10cm. I pushed for 2 hours (with an epidural I hasten to add, no heroics). Got taken into theatre possibly for ventouse, but signed cs consent forms. They found meconium and the cs was done very quickly. They had been worried about DS's heart rate for some time, so the meconium was the last straw. After the op, the MW said something about his presentation being such that he would never have come out vaginally. Possibly a brow presentation. He was also 9lb13oz. Tomorrow I am hoping to find out whether it was the presentation or his size that was the limiting factor.

I found the post op recovery very difficult. I had all sorts of torn muscles, and then got an infection. This is the main reason why I want to avoid another CS. Luckily I didn't find DS's delivery traumatic or frightening, and I haven't had the guilt that some people get about not doing it "properly". I still felt quite low for the first 5 weeks or so, and would like to avoid that again. The idea of feeling like that with a toddler is alarming.

Ok, will stop there. Will let you know how tomorrow's appointment goes.

Hi all

Will go along tomorrow to the preparation sesion and report back - your mumsnet VBAC spy! No seriously just to say it is well worth asking and asking and asking again about suitable preparation sessions, I didn't get told that my hospital offered them either by the consultant who saw me at my initial booking in or by the administrator who signed me up for a general antenatal refresher class - I only found out by accident when the general class was cancelled and someone on holiday cover read out to me the list of all the sessions and dates offered to try and get me on another and I realised there was something much more suitable....

Hi everyone,

Nice to see some more people on the tread.

Chocolatejunkie you can have an epidural after a section. It's the other things that you need to avoid like pessaries which can increase your chances of uterine rupture by 4 times.
I also hope that it stays that way for you and no-one bothers you with your VBAC. That is what happened to me after my first section no one mentioned it, so it wasn't a problem I just did it.

Chulita You are right about having a fight on your hands if you go over due and for some they will have a fight even if you don't go over due. You really have to get your support team in gear I do recommend people join the VBACHBAC yahoo group (HBAC=Home Birth After Caesarean). There are some pretty tough ladies on there.
Go with the flow of your midwife (they are the ones who deliver most of the babies the Cons. only get a look in when something goes wrong) if she's not fazed then why should you be. Now that this is your second one they say baby has more room LOL.

LaTrucha You've got to think positive to get positive. You'll be one of the next ones to write a good birth story on your thread. (God willing). I know it's hard to do, but easy to say, but don't think about it! You have the key and that is to wait! Wait until you really can't take it no more and then go to the hospital and even if your 6 or 8 hours are up ask them if the baby is OK and as long as you feel fine to keep going then keep going.
Relax, relax is good even too much. You need to be relaxed to allow your body to do what it needs to do. If your thinking too much your body will busy it's self with what your thinking about and not about getting baby out.

Babebelle I hope all goes well.

Summerlightning Glad to hear you've change your mind. Just to repeat what I'd posted on the VBAC book recommendation post

"Babies who have experienced labour benefit from the surge of hormones called catecholamines which are released in the baby's body during labour and which prepare the baby for birth. These hormones help to clear the baby's lungs so that he/she can breathe, they speed up the metabolism and ensure a rich supply of blood to the heart and brain. It is these hormones which keep the baby awake for sometime after birth so that the baby can bond with his mother and have his/her first breast-feed."

Also

"They are usually born at full term, when they are ready. This makes them less likely to need special care for respiratory distress (breathing problems) or because they were 'small for dates'"

Gina, A VBAC campaigner said:

"A caesarean mother would never put her baby at risk. She will always make the sacrifice she has made before if there is the slightest indication that it will benefit her baby. The baby always comes first, the birth experience second"

Quotes from AIMS book Brith After Caesarean

So really ladies your giving your babies a better chance even if it did end up in another section, But we will be all praying that you can all write a good story on LaTrucha's thread

I hope I didn't miss anyone

Goodnight ladies and sleep tight.

Oh Boy I didn't see the third page LOL

Hello, I don't find time to come on MN that much these days

but just wanted to add my support to what the other experienced VBACers are saying

pinkgrapefruitjuice 'have booked ELCS for 3 days after due date...' three days past 40wks? Utter madness! What are they thinking? You are not overdue till 42+1, 40wks is the average date within the wider window of 37 to 42wks, during which time most babies are born according to their individuality. I know of a fair few VBACers at 42+ weeks, even past 43.

and yes you CAN refuse or cancel Their plans. I accept it's hard to go against the medical people as we have long been conditioned to respect and obey doctors, police, teachers, priests etc..... but actually they are just human beings and get things wrong!

There is a growing body of VBACers and VBAC supporters who KNOW that awaiting spontaneous labour, labouring in a place which is comfortable to mum, refusing intervetnions like cannulas, constant foetal monitoring etc, birthing in water, and being treated no differently than any other low risk first time mum is ACTUALLY the best way to support a VBAC mum successfully.

State your intentions, do not ask for their permission to birth your baby, refuse any of their 'kind' offers which you feel uncomfortable with and speak to a Supervisor of Midwives or Head of Midwifery to request that your Birth Preferences are respected and adhered to. Expecting a consultant to 'allow' you to birth your baby is more likely to dent your confidence and leave you demoralsied as they are not experts in physiological birth. The midwives ARE, and planning a VBAC not a medical event.

[klaw gets off soapbox]

No update from the Birth Options Clinic as it was cancelled just as I arrived because of no Consultant being available. I now can't get through to the ante natal clinic due to a disinterested receptionist.

I will return...

Thanks Chulita, I have altered my birth plan to include no unnecessary interventions, limited checks and no fetal scalp monitor

wow klaw inspiring words, thank you! I know that you are totally right, will have to be more assertive this time for sure.

[sigh] depending on who I speak to I either get really positive vbac advice or absolute rubbish. I had a mw today who was lovely and said that if she was on when I went into labour she would try everything to let me have a vbac, including doing ecv/no cfm/water labour etc. The last one I spoke to was all 'no, no, no'...so frustrating! I think if today's mw isn't on duty I'll cross my legs til she is!

It's amazing what changes when you say "No" in a no-nonsense tone of voice. First time round I thought I was putting my point of view across but in hindsight I was saying "No, I'd rather not..." or "I'd prefer not to..." or "I'd really like to avoid...". Second time around (the VBAC) I was in transition and hence not inclined towards social niceties and just said a plain "No" to anything I didn't feel like, including CFM, and it was remarkable how quickly they backed down, whatever policy said.

Hello, can I join? Am 30+5, with DS was 11 days overdue and induced, got to 5cms then all seemed to stop. Epidural did not work, DS was back to back and was becoming distressed so ended up with an EMCS. Found the recvovery really hard, although no real isues with the scar and also felt like a failure for not being able to have a natural birth. I have got a consultants appointment at 34 weeks to discuss birth choices but have had very little help / support from any of the MWs I have seen (have never seen the same MW twice) In fact on my second MW appointment when I tried to discuss VBAC with her she just said 'well you've got a consultants appt you can just ask them if you've got any questions' Really helpful
This was the same MW who's opening line to me, as I had sat down and crossed my legs, was 'don't cross your legs you will get a blood clot and die'
So am not overly confident with the care I might receive at the hospital (diff one to DS as we have moved)

Really want a VBAC as can't face the recovery with a toddler to look after too. Have done plenty of research on the internet and am starting pregnancy yoga classes soon.

Will be watching this thread with interest and look forward to hearing some positive VBAC stories.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels cheated by having a section. I know fine well I should just be grateful that DS is healthy and there weren't any serious problems but I was very upset after he arrived and I think it might have been one of the reasons it felt like it took so long to bond with him (that and the fact that the little bugger was chewing my nipples to bits!).

And while I'm on the subject - I really REALLY resented the fact that some of the women I worked with kept on going on about it as if I had taken the easy option! WTF! You try being sliced open from one hip to the other while you're still awake, have someone rummage around for a while, pull a child out, sew you up and then send you home with a newborn child, a packet of fucking paracetemol, a sack-load of hormones and the promise that you won't get a decent night's sleep for several months! AAAAARRGGHHH.......

And breath...........

Sorry I might have gone slightly off topic there - but I feel much better now....

GwennieF I'm so with you on the stupid comments people make - one lady at the bf support group last week interrupted while I was chatting to my friend about how much I wanted a VBAC. She was like "yea, I'd like to try a cs next time" I asked why and she said "well, I feel like I've done the normal way and I'd quite like to try it" She'd changed her tune by the time I'd finished with her but I was livid...as if I'd chosen it for convenience

I saw a lovely supportive mw on Wednesday, I'm hoping she'll be there when I go into labour. She was saying that if I'm in labour they'll try anything to give me a VBAC including ECV with close monitoring in case anything happens. Made me feel so much more positive!

GwennieF Thu 17-Jun-10 22:02:39
"I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels cheated by having a section. I know fine well I should just be grateful that DS is healthy"

No, you are far from being the only person, there are LOADS of us out there. And no, you don't have to be grateful! Of course you are happy that your baby is is healthy, BUT you are important too and what happened to you affects you. Birth is not just a physical process that gets you baby born, it is hormonal, emotional, spiritual even and includes you and baby.

Your feelings are valid, acknowledge them, probably have a blardy good cry, get angry

HUGS

''Your feelings are valid, acknowledge them, probably have a blardy good cry, get angry'

I think that was exactly the stage I was at when I joined the thread. It's only taken me two and half years and 38 weeks of pregnancy!

Not sure where I am now, except tired and wanting to have this baby. I've started listening to the VBAC hypnotherapy CD but I'll post about that later as DH is home!

laTrucha I've been trying the VBAC hypnotherapy CD too and I think it's made a difference. I was very negative/nervous about the whole giving birth thing but more recently I've started to really look forward to it. I'm actually excited to get this LO out now! (still transverse though so who knows where I'll be in a couple of weeks!)

Good to hear Chulita.

I only listened to the first CD (about letting go of bad experience of c-section) once as I had really mixed feelings about the CD itself. You see, the c-section with DD was absolutely necessary for us both. The doctors did the right thing and if they hadn't we'd both be dead. I have a problem with calling that a bad experience. (ALthough I looked at Klaw's article with interest).

I simply really want it to be more natural this time! I find I do often fall asleep when listening to cD2. Honestly! How they can expect a heavily pregnant woman who obviously already has a child (as it's a VBAC CD) to lie down for 45 minutes without falling asleep beats me.

39 weeks tomorrow. Absolutely knackered.

Here's hoping Chulababy turns. It's a second, isn't it and apparently they often don't engage until labour. Will they let you go into labour if babe is still transverse? I'm guessing not.

I'm hoping they will let me start labour, one MW said they would but another said they wouldn't so I might just push for waiting. I think this LO could be classed as an unstable lie cos it's mostly transverse but every now and then it pops its head down but is OP. I'm not sure whether transverse babies turn during labour though...

I know what you mean about the cs needing to happen, it still took me a long time to come to terms with it!

I didn't come to terms with it at all -if I have now - until I was pregnant again and had to think about giving birth a second time. At first I actually wanted an ELCS - but htat didn't last long.

Hi everyone,

This is a really interesting thread. I feel I have so much in common with some of you! I'm also hoping to be having a VBAC in September with baby number 2.

My son was born in October 2006, he was breech from 28 weeks, never turned (despite my mammoth efforts - yoga, aqua natal, moxibustion and an ECV) and was born by planned CS a week before his due date.

I so wanted a natural homebirth with my son and was totally gutted that things went the way they did. It took a long time to recover but luckily I never had any problems with bonding and breastfed successfully for 9 months. It didn't stop me feeling disappointed that I 'wasn't allowed' the normal experience of birthing. I've had feelings for a long time now that I should have insisted on a vaginal breech birth. It was never presented as an option. I felt forced into a decision best for baby - simple as that.

This time round things are going to be different that's for sure! I've already refused consultant led care. I have an appt to see a consultant at 36 weeks but as it gets closer I'm thinking of cancelling. I'm so determined to have this baby naturally, I don't want anyone getting in my way! I'm currently toying with the idea of a homebirth, which I know will be against the hospital 'policy'. I'm seeing my midwife on Friday to get the ball rolling about discussing my birth. I'm nearly finished reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth which is wonderfully empowering.

These are my plans:

• No induction, even past 42 weeks, I will just insist on being monitored daily.
• No CFM, I want to be as mobile as possible.
• No cannula, I hate needles and think this is totally unnecessary.
• If I have a hospital birth (which I'm not against but just want to do on my terms) I want to use the birthing pool or be able get in the bath.
• No time limit on labouring before being told 'you need to go to theatre', for goodness sake...
• I'm also going to have my Mum at the birth (she's had 3 natural births, 2 with no pain relief) as well as my partner, which I hope will help in terms of female support.

I really wish everyone here all the best with their own births, lets hope it works out in the way we want and results in healthy babies and mums (physically and emotionally).

Looking forward to hearing about everyone's progress.....

Lisa.