What is considered a natural birth?

[ComeAgain]

Does having ventouse or forceps count you out?

I got told by the hospital to take paracetamol in early labour!

I took paracetomol in labour. I'd read about it on MN! It was like trying to carve granite with a spoon - utterly ill equipped for the job...

I really don't agree at all that "in the effort to reassure women that birth isn't a competitive sport, we forget that primarily this is a health issue..."

I think the opposite is true. The reminder that birth isn't a competition seems to be sadly necessary sometimes precisely because adding elements of 'success' and 'failure' to birth can have a huge impact on mental and emotional health. Anyone who truly cares about the health and welfare of mothers and babies should understand this.

cory, I loved your post about why land mammmals giving birth in water is described as 'natural' rather than just 'positive' or 'sensible'. Spot on and v funny. 'Natural' can be a helluva weasel word, and this thread has thrown up some interesting contradictions IMO.

violethill, really? I have had plenty of people in RL say 'And did you have the baby...' euphemistic pause '... naturally?' Particularly people of a certain generation. In fact tbh I can't imagine most people I know using the word 'vaginally' to my face. Maybe I mix in squeamish circles.

I was asked many times after birth during any examinations, mw visits, and on my second pg, did you have a natural, assisted, or csec.

So by that logic natural is used to describe the way the baby was birthed so that mw and health professionals know what kind of birth you had so they know what to expect on the next one or where and what to examine for.

I don't get why there is such a argument over what this means you don't hear of people asking and arguing over what assisted or csec means. It seemed simple to me natural was a more polite way of putting unassisted vaginal. Regardless of drugs.

Yeap I think some of you must mix in squeamish circles!!

I had one natural vaginal birth, one caesarian section, and one vaginal birth with gas and air.

Doesn't feel at all embarrassing or squeamish to say it - it's just stating facts!

Maybe you could argue a 'natural birth' is one that you could've done without any medical help if you had to - so the gas and air was nice but there was no major intervention or medical help, just support 'in case'?

I think of my rotational forceps emergency birth in theatre due to DD's OT position (unbirthable) and distress as unnatural - but lifesaving for her and me. Nature in our case would've killed us off.

Yes, waterbirth is an intervention, definitely. But it is something you do, rather than something that is done to you (or for you), so psychologically better!

Exactly, lovethesea, nature isn't always kind. It can be cruel and random- thank goodness for modern interventions.

I agree that there needs to be balance (ie CS rates are too high in some hospitals) and there needs to be information and choice but that's where it stops.

Informing women of the pros and cons of using various drugs/ breathing techniques/ relaxation etc. during labour is enough, I think. Beyond that, it is down to a combination of personal preference and what actually happens during your labour. If you are lucky enough to have a short, uncomplicated labour, hurrah for you and your drug-free experience. If you are unfortunate enough to have complications, hurrah for modern medicine.

One way isn't intrinsically 'better' than the other- the only valid way of placing value on a birthing experience is if it leaves you with a healthy baby and a reasonably unscathed mother.

I wouldn't describe a water birth as an intervention. It's just a choice of where to give birth. It's a bit like saying giving birth on a bed or sofa or floor is an intervention! You have to give birth somewhere!

I wouldn't call water birth an intervention either, but I think that was just a reaction to the equally silly language use of calling it "natural".

It would be like saying "my birth was natural because it was on a bed, and yours was unnatural because it was on a sofa".

If "natural" means anything at all, it has got to mean "how these things would be conducted in the wild, what our species has developed to do". Which clearly has no application to either sofas or birthing pools.

Many people like using "natural" as a synonym of "positive". In which case I wouldn't advise them to watch too many nature films. Otherwise you might come away with the idea that "natural" means having your baby eaten by hyaenas.

To me, it makes sense to forget "natural" and focus on "positive". If a water birth makes it easier for you, go for it! It doesn't have to be natural, we can dispense with the hyaenas too- we are allowed. I had cheese sandwiches and a cup of tea- nothing even remotely natural about that. But certainly hit the spot.

In the case of my two children - both with genetic defects - "natural" would almost certainly be synonymous with "dead in infancy". Can't get more natural than that.

(There may be days when I think "bring on the hyaenas"...but on the whole I think Nature can be overrated)

Cory, I couldn't agree more.

I had the "perfect" natural birth - I had 1 paracetemol for pain relief; this was not through choice as I had planned to use G&A but because when we arrived at the hospital DD was practically out so there was no time to do anything, it was a case of "ooh, there's the head, push !".

I do not consider this to be somesort of achievement - I think I am actually bloody lucky not to have had to go through an induction/forceps/whatever. I think that all of you that end up with "unnatural" births should be proud of your coping skills as I can imagine it was far more unpleasant than a "natural" birth.

Stop - let's get this the right way round - unless you're deliberately going down the medicalised route, you're not bloody lucky to have a natural birth - you're bloody unlucky if you don't.

Well, that's how it could be (should be IMO) if everyone was a tad more positive/relaxed about normal birth and didn't get railroaded off by jumpy/overworked medical staff.

I think definitions of natural depend on normal birth conventions where you live.

Certainly "vaginal birth" and "natural birth" are used pretty interchangeably where I live.

eg Obstetricians would say they have an X% natural birth rate where they mean "vaginal birth rate" including any sort of pain relief but, weirdly, excluding instrument assisted deliveries which they list separately. That might just be because it's an FAQ of people deciding between Obs though.

However, the same obs asked me to clarify whether I meant "natural or vaginal" for my birth plan so even they're confused .

I guess it's good that she wants to clarify what I mean though. Rather get it straight before I get there!