I think I want drugs. Is it worth attending NCT classes?

[Miffster]

Or will I just get told off and looked down upon?

Background: My GP saw me when I first found I was PG, and swiftly sold me into the Homerton, because the midwives there run the GP surgery antenatal clinic, there's an EPU and all mod cons and it's just been refurbed and is 'posh like the Chelsea and Westminster'. Fine, I say, I'll go there. Although on further googling it seems that the birth centre is fab but the maternity ward is hell on earth and there are grim tales of bullying night staff bollocking desperate bleeding women staggering about in the small hours and forcing formula on newborns etc etc.

Anyway, somewhat surprised at the speed at which I was signed up to a hospital, I followed MN advice and made contact with the NCT as the courses get booked up super fast, apparently. I've always felt that when the times comes I will be a 'give me all the drugs you have got' type of woman. I'm semi-phobic about hospitals (long, sad story) but nor do I want to have my fanjo and innards shredded without the benefit of opiates or similar on tap.

NCT sounds like a good way to meet other 1st time parents. But will I get treated like a leper because I do not think there is any way that breathing and endorphins are going to do it for me, any more than I'd rely on them for root canal work? I know it works for others and that's great. But I want modern medicine and as much pain relief as I can get.

Sorry long post.

You'll get a lot more from NCT classes than info about pain relief (and even that should be unbiased). Signs of labour, when to go to hospital, c-section advice etc. They will cover epidurals in detail - you don't have to disclose your preferences if you don't want to. Plus you'll have a ready made support network of new mums. I think worth doing.

As for "posh like Chelsea and Westminster" all I can say is ha ha ha. Have never had such an awful experience in such dirty surroundings...

Just on hospitals - if you want strong drugs they'll send you to the labour ward. Birth units won't administer them. You could always start there and enjoy the plush surroundings then ask to move half way through. Best of both worlds then. And you may just surprise yourself - my best friend was adamant she was having drugs but her ds arrived in 3 hours with a few sucks of gas and air.

I'd say go for it. Our NCT classes covered pain relief options pretty comprehensively - I certainly learnt a lot from it - though our teacher probably wanted us to all have natural drug free births. And most of us very clearly wanted g&a and epidurals etc and she respected that. But whatever - in the end we had the full range of experience from crash section to water birth with no pain relief. The great thing is that it doesn't matter how we gave birth - we all have our babies and have great fun meeting up and swanning around London together, enjoying our babies and maternity leave. I've found it invaluable to these new friends, who understand what my life is now life on a much deeper level than even my family and certainly more so than my close friends with no children. Definitely worth the money imho!

Snickersnack says it much more elegantly than me! And good advice about starting in the birth centres and moving to the labour ward once you need the stronger drugs.

"but nor do I want to have my fanjo and innards shredded without the benefit of opiates or similar on tap"

Oh - just go. You'll meet loads of other terrified local mums - you'll have a laugh.

Have to say though, if you manage to get out of Chelsea and Westminster with either your abdomen or your fanjo intact, do come on here and tell us all. The normal birth rate for first time mums there is really, really low.

Go for the moral support and companionship.

I went to NHS classes and made a good couple of pals.

You don't know how you'll handle birth till it happens.

I am a total wuss when it comes to pain yet had a reasonably straightforward birth thanks to ds being in a good position, luck and managing to talk myself into remaining calm. Tbh I htink it's mainly down to luck. I had gas and air and I had some morphine (which was horrid actually) on a mw led unit. It was good to know about different pain relief beforehand and NCT will tell you all your options and contrary to popular belief are not total lentil weaving hippies, not that there's owt wrong with that of course!

Good luck. If it was that bad noone would have more than one. Ever.

Thanks for reassurance. Am booked in for Homerton, not Chelsea & W, 'posh like C&W' was how GP described newly-refurbed Homerton.
Not sure what the rate of fanjo-mangling at Homerton is.

NCT leaflet for course arrived today which was what made me very suspicious. Called 'Straightforward Birth' and basically telling you to 'help yourself' by 'choosing midwife care', 'no need to see your GP', 'book to have your baby at home or in a midwife led birth unit', 'focus on managing strong sensations of labour rather than trying to remove the pain',[oh yeah?], 'stay at home as long as possible once you think labour ha started'... and so on.

And a big red flag went up and I thought... uh oh. Massive agenda here. They've got a thing against pain relief. And I'm not cool with that.

But of others are saying that they don't ram an agenda down your throat then fone. Because I would like to meet others locally.

Lol at 'strong sensations'.

But I'm getting the picture you're pretty realistic about the hideous pain sensations of childbirth.

Seriously, I got through it and will be doing it again in about 5-6 weeks. And for some women it is okay. I found it less awful than pregnancy itself tbh as at least childbirth only lasts hours/a day. It is short lived and you cna get through anything that is brief. And it was far less difficult than I imagined.

Personally I wouldn't have gone to NCT if I was pretty certain I wanted heavy duty drugs, simply because NCT is quite expensive, and also my local classes had a major focus on natural pain relief methods. Of course, it's entirely up to you, and you may want to go for social aspects, but personally as I say, I would have probably opted just for NHS antenatal classes if I had been keen on an epidural etc. It's not so much that NCT is anti- pain relief, it's more about whether the major focus of the class is on things that will be useful to you. Half an hour of every class with mine was devoted to relaxation, breathing etc. I found it fabulous and it got me through my first birth, but it's not what everyone wants.

My NCT teacher was not anti-drugs at all; in fact she was quite incredibly impartial and certainly very realistic (ex-midwife).

The other people there were not anti-drugs either, just - as someone else says here - local terrified parents! Some of them wanted home births, some hospital, some all drugs going but noone was ever presented as 'doing the right thing'.

I suppose it depends on the group and teacher, but if you go and it is like that I think you'd be entitled to complain.

I would go. Our NCT class covered all pain relief in full and there was no pressure to get you to "sign up" to a drug free birth. It was a great way to meet new people and although we all wanted waterbirths every single one of us in the class ended up with an emergency c-section. I do think our NCT teacher was rather aghast at that!

Yes, I did , NCT ended up with a epidural and very medical delivery - But met some very good friends, who I now count among my closet friends 6 years on.

Out of 8 of us - 4 were aiming for home deliveries, the others were planning on hospital deliveies and were lets just see what happens...

We has one CS
one forceps
one ventouse
one epidural - ND
one pethidine - ND
one G&A - ND
one ND - induction so in hospital
one home birth

You can never tell how you would cope, prepare for everything

My NCT teacher was very anti-drugs and seemed to think you could say "I've given birth" only if you did it in a poppy field with fairies scattering rose petals on you while you breathed through contractions that are only "your cervix opening like a flower" . Shee was a loon. Fact.

But I got a lot more out of it once I''d ignored her patronising drivel. Good advice about coping with the pain and how labour progresses. I became familiar with terms so felt more in control on the day.. Also dh learnt how he could help and support me. Plus advice on the early days of caring for a newborn.

And the biggest benefit of all was making friends who had babies the same age as me. Nearly four years on, we are all still good friends

I'd say go to the classes too.We did positions for labour and talked through all pain relief.It was a good laugh and we are all great mates.

Out of our group of 8 we had 3 emergency C sections.Our teacher had had a C section and also couldn't breastfeed so she was very open about what can happen.Of course none of us thought we'd end up with a section (including me)!
I didn't go to the hospital classes but only cos they were on the same night as NCT.

IMO, the biggest benefit from attending NCT classes is the creation of an instant local network of mums as similarly shellshocked as you at suddenly being at home with a tiny baby. Everything else is incidental.

The 'massive agenda' is simply evidence based advice which you can also find in the NICE guidelines and in the MIDIRS Informed Choice booklets which are produced by the RCM in conjunction with the RCOG, the NHS and the NCT.

Might be inconvenient but the evidence supports the view that as a low risk mum you're more likely to come away from labour with birth injury if you have your baby in a consultant led unit than in you give birth at home, or in a free-standing midwife led unit. And the outcomes for your baby are no better in hospital. Slightly worse if anything, if you use admission to SCBU and low apgar scores as a measure. You're also more likely to be happy with your care and less likely to experience postnatal depression if you give birth at home or in a MLU.

I think it's quite important that this is pointed out to women, so they can make a properly informed choice as to where they want to have their babies, rather than just basing it on how nice the decor is on the labour ward.

It's not the 'decor' but the access to pain relief and medical help that concerns me, as I'm 39. With a heart murmur.

Literature that says 'Focus on managing the strong sensations of labour rather than trying to remove the pain' quite obviously has an agenda. As, possibly, do you, tittybangbang? Or perhaps it is merely your sense of humour which is flying over my head and coming across as sarcastic rudeness.

I think it's even more important to do an NCT course if you are after lots of lovely, lovely birth drugs. You won't get told anything about their possible side effects on the baby in the hospital, and even if you did it would be too much of a blur to take in.
For instance I didn't know that an epidural risked crashing my DS's heart rate, as some babies have a very bad reaction to it, or that morphine/pethidine would reduce his ability to breast feed, so got to pick medications with the least harmful effects which were gas and air, much, much abuse flung at my husband and - one emergency c section later - a spinal.
And nope they don't judge how the baby gets out. We had one gas and air birth, one gas and air set of twins, three forceps, a smattering of epidurals, a c section and a ventouse.
And I'd second what others are saying, the friendship network, when you all finally emerged covered in baby sick and with bitter, bitter laughs about the miracle of childbirth, is just priceless.

Oh...you mean drugs during labour

leaves thread

Apologies - didn't mean to be rude.

"Literature that says 'Focus on managing the strong sensations of labour rather than trying to remove the pain' quite obviously has an agenda".

The 'agenda' of this sort of literature as far as I can see it is to give mothers mental and physical strategies for getting through labour with as little damage possible to them and their babies. What's wrong with that? You'll need self-help strategies because you will have to cope with your contractions WITHOUT PAIN RELIEF until you're in strong and active labour - which may be for a few hours, but may be for several days. Once you're in active labour you'll be admitted to the labour ward and you will have access to opioids and epidural. But until then you have to manage with paracetamol, breathing, warm baths and tens. And cognitive strategies, which is what is described in the literature you were sent.

Re: pain relief and medical help - I had my last baby at 39. I had gestational diabetes, polyhydramnios, a history of shoulder dystocia and excessively large babies. I was very grateful for NCT input, which helped me get through my labour in the very best physical and mental shape possible. (BTW - it wasn't just the classes - my independent midwife also happened to be an NCT teacher and brought a lot of their ethos to the way she supported me through labour. I got through well over 30 hours of ACTIVE labour with just gas and air, including 5 hours on a syntocinon drip, because of her help, and ended up with a very healthy 9lbs 3oz baby, an intact perineum and a strong sensation of euphoria. I had no problems establishing breastfeeding afterwards. I think maybe when say this you'll understand why I have a lot of time for the NCT and their approach to coping with labour)

As, possibly, do you, tittybangbang? Or perhaps it is merely your sense of humour which is flying over my head and coming across as sarcastic rudeness.

I think some women become fixated on this idea of NCT being 'anti-pain relief'. They aren't. As I said, the main focus of my classes was exactly that - how to relax the body and mind, how to use breathing, to cope with pain. Now, you can jeer at that as 'breathing the baby out while listening to whale music and surrounded by petals' if you want, but actually it's simply about using your body and mind effectively. We spent about half an hour of every class doing this - and you know what? - I got better at doing this as the weeks went by - and DH felt more confident to support me.

Yes, there was information about drugs too, and their side effects. Which is exactly what there should be. And the fact is, for a low risk woman with the potential to give birth naturally, the safest way, statistically, is without forceps or ventouse, or forms of pain relief which have side effects, or can increase risk of intervention. And women have a right to know that. If a woman is high risk, or chooses drugs for pain relief, that's fine too, but surely they have a right to know the facts.

Every so often a thread pops up on MN where the NCT is bashed - and while I'm sure there are a few substandard NCT teachers (because you get substandard people in every job) the training is pretty rigorous, and it's in their interests to provide the classes people want, otherwise word gets around and people won't attend them. I still think, sometimes, it's not that the NCT is anti pain relief, but that the woman herself has expecatations of how her birth will be, and what pain relief she'll use, and what she wants to avoid, and then if it doesn't turn out that way, the NCT is a convenient scapegoat.

Hi Miffster - sounds like it might be useful for you to go to NCT class. Even if you find the teacher a bit anti-drugs, they should still cover all the options. I wished I had gone before my DS was born as gas and air made me feel sick and didn't help in the slightest. The pain was then awful after 12 hours, I panicked and had pethidine and I'm pretty convinced it slowed the whole delivery down. I was in labour for another 8 hours and only got to 6cms dilated so they had to whisk me in for an emergency c-sec, with epidural, as DS was in distress and my heartbeart was slowing. I know now that if I have another baby then I will need some form of drug as gas and air doesn't work and I know I couldn't cope with the pain. Hope that helps.

...should add that I only meant gas and air didn't work for me, but some of my friends found it wonderful, like having 2-3 glasses of wine!

I get the impression NCT really varies according to the group of women in the class - my course we got asked what our worries were and what we wanted to know about most, and we devoted 1 of the 6 sessions purely to the pain relief options. While also having a session on how to reduce fear and improve relaxation FOR YOU. And tell you what to expect - eg some women don't want homebirth because they don't know you'll get a midwife and gas+air, and think you get a midwife by your side the whole time in hospital, which isn't correct either.

It helped hugely that all of us had roughly the same ideas of being scared but open to the idea that it might not be that bad, and the info on what to expect was really useful - eg I managed to relax in baths etc for hours of labour but then needed an epidural for non-labour reasons. I was very glad I'd been told before that involuntary shivering for a few days after is a common side effect, as otherwise I'd have been terrified I'd had nerve damage.

My SIL claimed her NCT classes were 'totally anti pain relief', but as said SIL also claimed the NHS were 'going to let my baby die' for refusing to induce or do a CS on her hue date and that she 'had to go private to get an epidural', I think this translates as 'mentioned there's some disadvantages as well as advantages of pain relief'...

I would say, on balance, go to the NCT classes but take it all with a pinch of salt if you get one of the "drugs are evil" teachers. I know NCT classes are supposed to be unbiased, but IME a lot of the teachers are very lentil-weavery.

I made lots of good friends at my NCT antenatal classes, and 5 years on we still meet up for coffee once a week. It can be great for the social side (although obviously it is pot luck who you get in your class).