I think I want drugs. Is it worth attending NCT classes?

[Miffster]

Or will I just get told off and looked down upon?

Background: My GP saw me when I first found I was PG, and swiftly sold me into the Homerton, because the midwives there run the GP surgery antenatal clinic, there's an EPU and all mod cons and it's just been refurbed and is 'posh like the Chelsea and Westminster'. Fine, I say, I'll go there. Although on further googling it seems that the birth centre is fab but the maternity ward is hell on earth and there are grim tales of bullying night staff bollocking desperate bleeding women staggering about in the small hours and forcing formula on newborns etc etc.

Anyway, somewhat surprised at the speed at which I was signed up to a hospital, I followed MN advice and made contact with the NCT as the courses get booked up super fast, apparently. I've always felt that when the times comes I will be a 'give me all the drugs you have got' type of woman. I'm semi-phobic about hospitals (long, sad story) but nor do I want to have my fanjo and innards shredded without the benefit of opiates or similar on tap.

NCT sounds like a good way to meet other 1st time parents. But will I get treated like a leper because I do not think there is any way that breathing and endorphins are going to do it for me, any more than I'd rely on them for root canal work? I know it works for others and that's great. But I want modern medicine and as much pain relief as I can get.

Sorry long post.

I think I'm stalking TBB around, but she talks sense.

You'll struggle to find antenatal teachers from any organisation who actively encourage epidurals or narcotics. Not because we're sadistic freaks but mainly because we have to learn in depth what the pro's and con's are of them.

The big pro of course is that pain is reduced but the risks are significant for pretty much everything except gas and air and even carry a small possibility of long term repercussions. For that reason, I'd say to /anyone/ it's worth exploring other methods for managing pain first and using drugs as a last resort. And also a good idea to avoid using an epidural until you really feel you need it because the less time it is going into your system, the better for you and your baby.

I'm not anti drugs. I had diamorphine with two of my births. But I found that when forced to give birth without drugs or G&A, I was terrified but could do it with a lot of mind over matter, breathing and a doula. Next time, I'd look into hypnobirthing.

To answer the OP though, I'd go along to the NCT. My experience there was very positive and I met some lovely ladies. The teacher roleplayed out a caesarean as some of the class had scheduled them and was very supportive of everyone's choices.

I went back and did the class again with baby #2 and again found a nice social group. The teacher was incredible when we had a very sad outcome in the group.

I don't think you can be certain you want the heavy duty drugs until you've been actually been informed about what they do. But NHS or NCT classes should both cover the risks and benefits of all the pain relief that's on offer.

Miffster, just on a slightly different tack, and sorry if this is really obvious and you've already thought about it -

It seems to me as if the main attraction of NCT classes for you atm might be to meet other parents to be locally. There are other ways to do this than via ante-natal classes - antenatal yoga is working well for me, for instance, and I've hooked up with a couple of other girls local to me via MN, who are also 1st time mums/due around the same time as me. I'm really enjoying this - it's helpful being able to compare experiences and info.

I think it very much depends what you are after. I'm having a planned CS, and this leaves me in an odd position. There are things like breastfeeding and postnatal care where an ante-natal class might be a good and socially enjoyable way to learn - but there doesn't seem to be a way of accessing this via ante-natal classes without birth info which for me will be at best unnecessary. I have also been told by several friends who've done NCT (with wildly varying experiences) that I won't be welcome there if I 'let on' I'm having a planned CS! And lying about that to access other ante-natal support seems silly and unfair to me.

It seems especially unfair cos I know that I'll be using things like positive breathing, relaxation techniques, visualisation etc as part of my CS birth, just cos I've always done yoga and meditation, and find it very useful in coping with stress or pain in general. After all, there's absolutely no reason to assume that if someone uses pain relief, they won't be using other self-management techniques - that's a very polarising and dismissive assumption.

However, all this I can/am having to find outside ante-natal classes (the social/mental and physical health/CS birth info/breastfeeding support). I also have a MW who is being brilliantly supportive, which is a huge help. I just wanted to say - depends what you are after, but an ante-natal class may not be the only route.

was with a group of friends last night and they were pissing themsleves alughing at the memory of NCT classes vs actual birth

they did seem to meet nice friends though

Some NCT teachers have an agenda and they are allowed to do so. There are some that only teach for natural birth. They are supposed to let you know this before you sign up with them though. It might be possible there is a choice of teacher in your area. It does sound from the literature for this particular set of classes that she is teaching for natural birth. Most teachers let the clients set the agenda.

contractions that are only "your cervix opening like a flower"

Miffster, all I would advise is do as much research as possible. Like you, I wanted to get as many pain relief drugs into me as poss.(I need to be knocked out when I walk into the dentist, let alone having treatment in the chair!), however I started to do my impartial research (which is sometimes difficult to find) and before the birth, did a complete 360, to the point where I was determined not to have anything and got through 3 births without anything which I never believed I'd be able to do!

Please, please if you think you will want pain relief from the word go, read into all the effects that the different drugs have and the statistics for medical intervention. You may still decide to go ahead with them which is fine, but at least you will be fully informed of the side effects and then be confident of your choices. Good luck with everything.

Excellent advice doulakate.

I would never have thought I had a massively high pain threshold; neither did I think it was particularly low; just somewhere in the middle. And certainly nothing on earth can totally prepare you for the pain of giving birth - it's on another level!

BUT because I'd got myself informed about the side effects of each type of pain relief beforehand, I knew that I really wanted to avoid pethidine or an epidural because I really didn't want the associated risks or possible side effects.

I would go even if you are pro drugs. NCT is a grest source of info and better still a place to connect with other mums going through the same experience as you are. Mine was quite anti drugs but I worked in the pharma industry and knew a lot more than she did so wasnt bothered. I had gas and air with DS1 who was induced, puked for 20 hours then had an epidural. With DS2 I insisted on an epidural before he was induced and shoved him out after 6 hours. We played scrabble with the couple from the room next door for most of my 2nd labour, quite a bizarre experience

I shouldn't worry too much about wanting pain relief at the Homerton. It serves a very diverse local population, and the delivery suites see as many women wanting to mainline pethidine as they do lentil-weavers.
I had all 3 of my babies there and 3 good experiences.
Hope that it goes well.

I got nothing out of it at all... except a great network of supportive mums living close by. An absolute life-line.

the big plus of antenatalclasses as opposed to e.g. antenatal exercise classes is that it's for all the parents (some single, some not) which is nice for those who aren't doing the birth too imo

also it's great for any class when someone shows up who is definite they want plenty of pain relief - opens up discussion for everyone else; ours was like this, and indeed the lady in question had an epidural and would recommend it to anyone

however it's also useful to get e.g. help on breathing techniques because labour happened so fast for me there was no time for anything beyond g&a and water, curses

(do bear in mind afterwards that many people say and mean they had a natural birth when in fact they were sucking on the g&a like there was no tomorrow - no trouble with that but it's no more natural imo then pethidine, although plenty of other advantages of course)

Barkfox - if you think you might like to do the nct classes, it's definitely worth calling up and sounding them out about your planned c-section. I was a bit worried about the same issue (I knew I'd be having an elec c-sect with my twins) but my nct teacher was great and spent a fair bit of time covering c-sections and I felt totally included. At the time of the classes, nobody else was expecting to have a c-sect but as it turned out, I think 4 other women did have sections in the end so it's a good thing to cover in some detail in any case.

Thanks bellabelly - it seems that the NCT classes vary quite a bit according to who is teaching them, so yes, it might be worth a call to see what the attitude of the local teacher is re: elec c sections...

Our NCT classes were great - we had members of the group who knew they were having an elective c-section, and we did a whole bit on sections and who would be in theatre and why etc, so it's not only for those planning a "normal" birth ime. Who knows what you'll end up with, so I paid as much attention to that bit as the rest!

Our teacher took us through the pros & cons of all pain relief options (and all options for other things like place of birth and 3 stage management etc) which helped me make really informed choices. She didn't seem to have any great feelings on the matter, having had different levels of interventions herself, but did present the evidence for what we were being told.

As said by pp, there will be some of labour that you will have to deal with without pain relief (I had a 3 day latent labour with only tens and hot water) so I think learning about strategies to deal with that phase if not the rest is important.

(FWIW - I also had long, sad reasons for not liking the hospital environment and after much discussion decided to try for homebirth and transfer if I felt I wanted additional pain relief - midwife was v supportive of this plan. I coped fine at home with tens, water & cans of G & A - and surprised me more than anyone!)

Miff I was same as you..in my NCT class I was the only one that wanted an epidural from day 1. In the end 5/6 of us had epirdurals, inc one ECS. But let us not digress....

It depends on the group. alot of people on here are very angry with the NCT views, others say they were OK about pain relief and got a balanced view.

I am glad I did it as met some nice people, and whilst at the time I though "OMG we are so different" I have made some nice friends

But to this day I remain angry with their views.

If you do want to meet local folks, go for it it and have an open mind

Just a quick point about childbirth.... there's an awful lot more to it than the bit at the end when you get drugs and push the baby out.

Your hospital is unlikely to be interested in admitting you until you are at least 3cm dilated. Getting that far could take hours, or even days. NCT classes will give you ideas how to handle the pains while you are at home, without access to hard-core pain relief. Your NCT classes will also help you spot the warning signs of problems during late pregnancy, when you might need to be getting professional help sooner rather than later.

You will also get advice on breastfeeding, what to expect as you recover, how to handle the transition to parenthood (the tough bits as well as the lovely bits) as well as making new friends.

I also found it useful for DH to have a couple of hours a week to really get his head round what was going to be happening (I don't think he quite believed me when I read to him from the pregnancy books).

No one will look down on you for planning a birth that includes drug relief. The NCT was founded when research showed that women who were informed about their choices in childbirth, were less fearful and had few interventions....the NCT exists to inform expectant parents not preach.

(P.S. I had loads of interventions and knew in advance that it was likely - everyone at the NCT was lovely and supportive).

OP - Yup def go. I was fairly keen on an epidural too - although definitely wanted to remain open-minded as I had no idea how I would cope. I just thought I would like one. I had one and it was amazing. Really good birth. I had one at about 6/7cms, having arrived at hospita 5cm.

Anyway I have met some great friends through NCT (although at first we all seemed rather different). It is so useful and nice to have a group of people to share the experiences with and who understand it - very few of my friends have babies yet or are even married. We now email each other every few days and meet at least once a week.

Also my NCt classes told us about different types of pain relief, how labour will progress and what to do with a baby once it has been born etc. I thought they were good. Good luck!

Hi and thanks for all the fantastic and thoughtful replies.

I should perhaps have made this clear in the OP, I do know that there is more to birth than the bit at the end where you get drugs and push the baby out. I'm 40 next year and throughout my life I have had friends who are mothers and who have shared their birth experiences with me so not a complete innocent! I should probably also have said (but didn't for reasons of space) that I am expecting to use all the breathing and relaxation techniques at my disposal to get me through early stage labour, and hope to spend as much time as possible dilating slowly and calmly at home, in my bath/on my Swiss ball/walking about my flat with DH, before I turn up at the Homerton.

I've been unlucky enough to live through 2 life-threatening extreme situations as an adult and in both cases, it was having done some yoga and learned a bit about how to control my panic and pain through breathwork that allowed me to survive (without benefit of doctors or pain relief I should add but long story and not the place here).

I'm therefore fairly sure I could survive a so-called 'natural birth' (I really dislike that term, think 'vaginal birth without pain relief' is more accurate.)

But I don't think I would thrive. I'm fairly sure, knowing me, that the unmanaged pain - for hours - would get in the way of me being able to labour mindfully and breathe properly and stay in a non-panicky-place. I think pain management would help me remain more 'present' and focused and dare I say it - relaxed. And I think that's more important for me and the baby than anything else. I think if the effects of pain management drugs were so awful for mothers and babies there would be litigation about it. Yes, there are risks. I think managing extreme pain has benefits that outweigh the risks.

I also think it is pretty damn unrealistic not to expect extreme exhaustion and extreme pain in a first labour at age 39. So I am therefore sure that I want pain relief, not just nitrous oxide, which does shag-all for me (yes, I've had it recreationally before) and I want as much information and knowledge as I can get to be (awful phrase) as empowered as possible.

Which brings me on to the oft-repeated stuff like You're also more likely to be happy with your care and less likely to experience postnatal depression if you give birth at home or in a MLU. Isn't this a case of massaging the stats interpreting the data?

Because, let's face it, the stats re. births at home/with fewer interventions are largely going to be the less-complicated ones, aren't they? Stands to reason if you've had a labour which didn't require much in the way of medical intervention, (baby wasn't breech, maybe it was your second labour, it was a shorter labour, you'd previously established that your body could cope) then of course your recovery is going to be easier. You dodged a bullet.

I'd be happier if my dentist only had to give me a filling rather than root canal work!

But just look at the numbers of first timers who end up using drugs, despite their plans. It's more realistic to assume that I, and probably most of the women in an ante natal class will use pain relief, and several of us will have surgery or interventions. It's realistic to assume it, rather than assume a birth without pain relief. And I don't think it is unnatural to want help and pain relief!
The first feminists fought for pain relief for labouring women, after all.

This post has gone on and on, sorry.

My original concern was whether, knowing this - knowing myself - and being this realistic from the start would put me on a collision course with an organisation that has a rep for having a 'natural birth' agenda, but which also has a rep for being a good way to meet other local parents to be. It seems it depends largely on who teaches the course and is pot luck (about how much of an anti-intervention bent the course has). I do want to meet other parents. I don't want to waste 200 GBP plus on having my birth plan choices disrespected by the teacher. I'm happy to learn as much as possible about managing pain - as long as the fact that I want and expect to CHOOSE to use pain relief for the final push - is validated.

I promise I will never write such a long post again!

Do you have reason to think that your local NCT antenatal teacher would disrespect you? Have any of your friends who are mothers been on a local course and given you negative feedback?

I would suggest phoning the booking person for your area and talking to her. She may be able to put your mind at rest, or even put you in direct contact with the teacher who would take your class (should you choose to attend). In my experience, the NCT do not try and push people into spending £200 if they are not certain. After all, having someone on the course who is openly mistrustful of both the teacher and other attendees, may affect the benefit that all attendees get from the course.

Go on the course. The NCT are right about pain management, because even the hardcore stuff doesn't make it completely painless.

A good teacher will tailor the class to all her participants. And explaining what actually happens when you have an epiduaral or an induction or a c-section is really useful.

Didn't have any of that cervix is like a flower guff at mine, but did have a relaxation cd that blathered on about it that I chose to sleep through listen to in very sceptical preparation.

At our de-brief after the birth one of the girls cited her epidural as the best bit.

Out of 6 we had

1 elective c-section (suspected breech baby)
1 emergency crash section after forceps and ventouse and an early induction after HELP syndrome
2 epidural and ventouse assisted births
1 pethidine and G&A
1 G&A only (me and I'd have taken all the drugs in the world if I hadn't been at home)

Expect the worse and hope for the best and make some friends to eat cake with

I agree with piprabbit.

You have clearly thought long and hard about this (that's obvious from your post) and you know you are very likely to want pain relief that's more than just gas and air, so tell your local teacher that in advance. It doesn't sound as though you have any particular reason to feel your local teacher will not respect people's choices, so give them a chance. I agree, NCT is expensive. You wouldn't chuck around that sort of money without being certain you like the product you're being sold, so ask questions beforehand.

A good teacher will be guided by what the group ask for anyway. I think the focus on my particular group was perhaps more on natural methods because everyone in the group asked for that. Even so, the classes will cover other things, but to some extent the teacher will take their lead from you. And even though quite a few in my classes opted for epidurals when it came to the reality of labour, no one complained afterwards,no one felt they hadn't had a good experience with NCT - they just felt that when it actually came to it, they wanted that level of pain relief.

I would get in touch and talk this through with the teacher - and I doubt there will be any judging going on.

P.S Can I just add to the OP - I don't think 39 is old, or will be perceived as old at all! There were two women in my group in their 40s!
So I don't think that should make a huge difference to labour. Apparently the optimum age physically to give birth is something like 20, but honestly, how many women these days are choosing to have babies then? Not many! Yes the pain is extreme - but that's the case whatever age you are, and also a long labour can be very tiring, but I really don't think being 39 will be seen as a big deal by anyone - certainly not the NCT.

My NCT class was pretty realistic about all the options available, and the possibilities of c-section too (I hadn;t thought about that too much and lo and behold ended up having one!). A couple of my NCT friends were completely upfront about the fact that they were going to demand an epidural (which they did and both said it was great, which it can be), and they were not looked down upon by the teacher in anyway.

I don't think there is any dispute that if you CAN have a natural labour with intervention or drugs then that is best for mother and baby, and the NCT promotes that, but my teacher was realistic about what MAY happen.