If you had a horrific birth first time, did you want/get elective c-section second time?

[Thandeka]

Just musing on this as I had textbook labour and delivery from hell ( labour started with waters breaking and contractions every minute from then, no way to get a handle on the pain at all, one failed epidural, failed ventouse, 4failed cannulas, forceps, episiostomy, 2nd degree tear, and to cap it all off a daughter who was brain damaged by the process and spent a week in intensive care). Reason was she was a big baby 9.5lbs and I just could not get her out (not helped by being on back in stirrups)

I NEVER EVER EVER EVER want to go through anything like that EVER again. As it is I am having to have counselling and having flashbacks etc.

DD is doing great but we can only wait and see if the damage will affect her development.

Anyhow we definitely want more children. (adoption is serious option), but if I were to have another I think I would have to have a C-section to ensure that the next DC is delivered safely and I don't have to relive any of that horror.

Part of my reasoning for this is second babies are often bigger- in my traumatic birth debrief they did say a c-section might be an option but they would also look at regular growth scans and induction at 38 weeks if it was another big baby(yuk at induction).

Now I know second births tend to be a doddle in comparison to first births so there is every chance I wouldn't struggle to push a subsequent DC out but I just can't picture ever experiencing the horror again. I would DEFINITELY want an epidural again and with that comes all the associated risks and unable to feel to push (plus I might not defo get an epidural or it might not work again etc- (second one finally worked).

I also know a c-section is a major op and not to be taken lightly and will be tricky with potentially a toddler (although I am saying a5year old to DH!) and recovery from vaginal births is much faster so I am in a bit of a quandary.

I suspect though if I show doubt to the medical professionals they will try and push me to have a vaginal birth. So just wanted to ask mumsnet advice to see what other ladies did. This is very premature of me- DD is only 9weeks old and we have no intention of TTC for at least a year (DH) or at least 5 years (or never) me!

But just thought I would ask in advance- knowledge is power and all that!

I didn't know what I wanted. I just knew I was terrified of giving birth again. I had a fabulous midwife and GP who told me that a CS was always an option, but then talked me through everything so well that I was able to consider, and then plan, a vaginal delivery. IMO, offering the possibility of a CS right at the beginning took the pressure off. I didn;t have to fret about fighting for one, and could put my energies into coming to terms with my previous experience. And if I hadn't been able to come to terms with it, then there would have been no battle.

Gailforce (fantastic username!) I wish I had complained and I agree with what you say. That's what I would advise anyone. At the time I was scared of making a fuss but in retrospect I regret that. I was frightened and in pain and she was in charge of looking after me so I was scared that if I did something to make her angry that she might say something to the other staff and they might take her side and not look after me properly. Since then I work in the NHS myself and I realise that it doesn't work that way.

I was in the NHS back then too but I was a scientist and now I'm a civillian. When I was a microbiologist I didn't get to deal directly with the patients. After an emotional breakdown (I suffer with depression and anorexia)I took 5 years off work and now work as a medical secretary. Still in the NHS but with less pressure.

I think that you're right that patients need to be assertive and that actually, the system works for the patient if only they will be able to assert themselves or have someone else to stick up for them. The system actually works (imo) and the professionals will put the patients welfare above all else but you need to make your needs known and to not allow yourself to be intimidated by people that are not necessarily doing their job properly. The consultant that I work for would go crazy if he thought that one of his patients had been badly treated. But if that patient had been intimidated and hadn't asserted themself to complain a second time then their complaint might have not been recognised. You really do have to be assertive because sometimes you are confronted with a 'weak link' in the system. We had a problem recently, the family of an elderly lady were unhappy with an aspect of her treatment. Because they kicked up such a fuss they got to make a private appointment with the consultant that I work for. If they hadn't, then nothing would have changed. As it is they actually changed some guidelines within the NHS.

First birth: long, excruciating, epidural followed by forceps birth. Baby 9lbs 6oz.

Second birth: 7 hours at home, gas and air, no stitches. Baby 10lbs 12oz.

I think that if you do decide to try for a vaginal birth you should really consider getting an independent midwife, who would help you with your fears and ensure you get the best shot at a normal birth. This is what I did - best money I've ever spent!

Thandeka - First birth was horrendous and left me bedridden for three weeks post-partum. Second birth was CS, and I was fine in three days. So don't assume "recovery much faster from vaginal births". Elective CS is a calm process where the doctor is not rushed to save the baby, and recovery tends to be easier.

Second babies tend to be bigger and boys also tend to be bigger than girls, so if you have a boy the second time, he will probably be significantly bigger than your baby girl.

DD (my first) was over 4 kgs at birth after induction at almost 40 weeks. DS (my second) would have gone over 4.3 kg if we waited for term.

Also, I would take elCS at 39 weeks over induction at 38 weeks.

Just have help lined up for the first week after the CS, and enjoy your baby while your friends & family run around for you

It's terrible that really we all need to go on an assertiveness training course before going into hospital! I know after my 8 days in hospital I was a lot more assertive and next time I will be too. I have sent off my complaint letter (and a praise letter to be fair as some aspects of care were great- complaint letter 7pages, praise letter-2!!).

I have had my birth debrief and finally feel it wasn't my fault, and I start counselling on wednesday.
Am glad other women got want they wanted for second births- fingers crossed we will too (talking about starting again in 6 months or so! Eeep! - we did want three! But partly I may leave it a bit to see how dd develops- if it transpires she is going to have serious special needs then I would want to focus my energy on her - not fair on subsequent Dc's.

Well done Thandeka for getting the letters sent off and good luck with the counselling. You've been so courageous! Hope your DD continues to do really well

Thandeka - Well done for getting your letters sent. May I gently suggest that you look to taking legal advice if your DD is going to have special needs as a result of her birth. There was a case recently, in Brighton, of a little girl being awarded damages because of brain damage at birth and this will help her parents provide the environment she needs for her to make the most of her life.
Please let us know what response you get to your letters. Good luck.

My first was bad. He got stuck (shoulder dystocia). The doctor totally panicked and started screamed HELP HELP ME I NEED HELP! and then pulled his HEAD! The siren went off (not the buzzer, they have an emergency siren!) about 10 people burst into the room, they pushed my knees up to my ears! (practically!), I had a midwife pushing hard on the top of my stomach and they managed to free him, he wasn't breathing and he was taken over to the resuscitaire. I was screaming "what's happening?" but nobody would answer me. Then he started to cry and my husband fainted, and fell forwards on to me. Then I haemorraged. There was blood everywhere.

He was 10lb 4oz. I suffered what I can only describe as periods of post natal psychosis! I thought he'd died when stuck and used to sit and try to work out how they would have cut him into pieces to get him out. I also thought he had been replaced by a demon, and saw him leering evilly at me. I used to cry and shake and sweat when I had to change his nappy or do his physio. - when they pulled his head they caused nerve damage and left him with a paralysed arm - Erbs Palsy.

It was about 3 or more years before I could describe the above without breaking down. It still makes me cry if I think about it.

however, 6 months after he was born I found out I was pregnant again (pill failure) I cannot describe how terrified I was. I even considered (briefly) an abortion. I wanted to go to a different hospital to have him, but my gp said it would be best for me to go to same hospital and that they would make sure it didn't happen again.

I didn't want a cs because the midwife the first time round had said to me that because of my weight I had a high chance of "dying on the table". So I had an epidural and had a theatre on standby and the consultant stayed until he was born (at about quarter to midnight!)

10lb 5oz. And he didn't get stuck. and he was fine - the cord was round his neck and his heart was dipping with each contraction but coming straight back up again so they weren't worried. They told me this after. I think if they'd told me during that the cord was round his neck I'd have freaked out.

I sued on ds1 behalf and they've just settled!

I guess what I am saying is I totally understand how scared you are, but don't feel that a cs is your only option - if you WANT one, then fair enough, but if it is the fear and otherwise you wouldn't want one, you can talk over your fears, make sure all plans are in place and minimise risks.

My first birth was horrific as in I thought my baby was going to die as I was rushed to theatre.

Baby number 2 - could have a section if I wanted, no argument.

I had 2VBACS.

How awful for you Thandeka.

Had a similar experience to Hinny Pet. If it helps I had a ELCS second time and the reasons the hospital put on my notes were a 3rd degree tear and shoulder dystocia.

The consultant in the debrief admitted that the doctor should never have tried ventouse as that was never going to work with DD as her head was already too swollen from being in the birth canal. She said had they not tried that they could have saved maybe 4 minutes. We don't know if those 4 minutes would have saved dd from the brain damage though as potentially she was in distress for some time before that although they are not sure as kept losing the trace during contrations and the monitor could have been picking up my hb rather than her HB changing.

I don't know about sueing- I guess they have admitted they did something wrong but I also don't want to start a blame game- there were loads of factors that contributed to DD and would rather view it as "one of those unfortunate things" and get on and deal with it rather than seek compensation- but then that is because we don't know whether she will have SN or not at the minute (hate the not knowing). She has a consultants app. next friday so we may find out more then but it is a case of waiting and seeing.

Good luck bexeybear

If you do get the mw from hell can you request that s/he leaves and you get someone else?

Or can your partner request this for you?

I really hope that those people on here who got a mw from hell complained.

I mean saying to Jemnot that she was attention seeking after she fell on the ground - ffs!

Another one who hasn't had time to read through everyone's stories, but will answer the basic question.

Following a traumatic first birth, and after subsequent years of counselling and CBT, I requested an ELCS in writing prior to ttc dd2, and was given the go ahead for this.

dd2 was born last week and the day went beautifully according to plan and was a lovely, calm and happy experience to offset the horrible previous one. I am so pleased that we made this choice and have a gorgeous second child that we didn't think we would be able to contemplate a few years ago.

Good luck with your recovery and future elcs...

Oh congratulations fatseal! Have been following your contribution to these threads with interest as am trying to go down the same road myself.

So glad your experience went well, congratulations on your DD.

That's really good to hear fatseal, I'm so glad it was a positive birth experience for you. And congrats on a new DD2.

(Thandeka, I have no useful advice for you, I'm sorry! but I really hope you get what you want and need for your future plans.)

Hi Thandeka, I too had an awful first birth which involved all pain relief options, episiotomy, forceps and was about 30 plus hours long.

However second time around it was absolutely textbook and could not have gone better really. Contractions started really hurting at around 6.30pm, got to hospital by 7.30pm and DS2 was born by 9pm. I was insistent on wanting another epidural straight away but I was 9cm dilated on arrival so they refused to give me anything at that point.

And as regards second baby being heavier my second baby was actually about half a pound lighter so thats not always true either.

The ultimate decision is up to you and your hospital but be sure to really weigh up the pros and cons first.