If you had a horrific birth first time, did you want/get elective c-section second time?

[Thandeka]

Just musing on this as I had textbook labour and delivery from hell ( labour started with waters breaking and contractions every minute from then, no way to get a handle on the pain at all, one failed epidural, failed ventouse, 4failed cannulas, forceps, episiostomy, 2nd degree tear, and to cap it all off a daughter who was brain damaged by the process and spent a week in intensive care). Reason was she was a big baby 9.5lbs and I just could not get her out (not helped by being on back in stirrups)

I NEVER EVER EVER EVER want to go through anything like that EVER again. As it is I am having to have counselling and having flashbacks etc.

DD is doing great but we can only wait and see if the damage will affect her development.

Anyhow we definitely want more children. (adoption is serious option), but if I were to have another I think I would have to have a C-section to ensure that the next DC is delivered safely and I don't have to relive any of that horror.

Part of my reasoning for this is second babies are often bigger- in my traumatic birth debrief they did say a c-section might be an option but they would also look at regular growth scans and induction at 38 weeks if it was another big baby(yuk at induction).

Now I know second births tend to be a doddle in comparison to first births so there is every chance I wouldn't struggle to push a subsequent DC out but I just can't picture ever experiencing the horror again. I would DEFINITELY want an epidural again and with that comes all the associated risks and unable to feel to push (plus I might not defo get an epidural or it might not work again etc- (second one finally worked).

I also know a c-section is a major op and not to be taken lightly and will be tricky with potentially a toddler (although I am saying a5year old to DH!) and recovery from vaginal births is much faster so I am in a bit of a quandary.

I suspect though if I show doubt to the medical professionals they will try and push me to have a vaginal birth. So just wanted to ask mumsnet advice to see what other ladies did. This is very premature of me- DD is only 9weeks old and we have no intention of TTC for at least a year (DH) or at least 5 years (or never) me!

But just thought I would ask in advance- knowledge is power and all that!

I can't answer your question exactly, as although my first birth experience was very similar to yours it ended in emergency c-section, so it was relatively easy to insist on an elective cs for the second. I just wanted to say, though, firstly I really sympathise with anyone who has been through such an awful experience, and secondly, don't not have any more children just because of this! There are lots of reasons not to have more children but this isn't one of them!

I had a very good experience with my elective cs and I would highly recommend it to anyone in your position. It was calm, peaceful and happy from start to finish. The only slight discomfort was when they put the canula in the back of my hand at the beginning - after that there was no pain at all.

In general the recovery takes longer than with a vaginal birth, so you should be aware of that and arrange help in advance if you can. My dh took 2 weeks paternity leave and we had lots of other help, which I'm sure helped with my recovery. However, the recovery was so much better than with my emergency cs, and better also than friends who had bad vaginal births with forceps/episiotomies etc.

I had a horrific first birth and was completely taken by surprise by how easy the second one was. I'd say to insist on an epidural if things start to overwhelm you but I didn't have time to get one as dc2 was nearly born in the hospital car park.I'm going for the same plan with dc3, this time I'll be a bit more positive about doing without the epidural and a bit more worried about getting to the hospital.And if you really can't face it have a c-section.I must say that when dc1 was 9 weeks old I wasn't worrying about the next birth as I had pretty well ruled it out . My 2 are 16 months apart so maybe you'll feel differently in a few months time.

I had a horrible first birth, I was exhausted, she came out with her shoulders unfurled, there was a huge degree of tearing(so much so she split the bit between the vagina and the anus,it wasnt helped by the midwife telling me 'its not that painful dear you are only having a baby',being flat on my back the whole time, failed ventouse and a forceps delivery.

I was all set to beg or pay for the c-section of the second but the consultant vetoed a 'normal birth' apparently first time should have been a cs from the time the midwife should have realised that it wasnt going to plan.

The only reason a doctor had been called the first time was the student midwife with me went and asked another midwife on the labour suite to get a doctor as she felt the midwife she was wasnt listening to me.

Plus the student stayed with me the whole time and she stitched the husbands thumb where I bit him.His fault he put his hand near my mouth.

I'm expecting DC2 in a few days & was desperate for a section this time - but consultant won't allow it. I had a horrible time & have spent my pregnancy having flashbacks. In hindsight I wish that I had asked to see a consultant before I got pregnant again to see what they would be happy with. At least that way I would have known what i was getting myself into...They do say its much easier 2nd time round though so fingers crossed

So sorry to hear about your birth experience Thandeka but congratulations on your newborn .

I had a fourth degree tear after my DD was born, I'm pregnant again and have my ELCS already agreed and booked.

I was actually told in the recovery room after being stitched after my last labour that they would recommend an ELCS in future.

My consultant told me that they agree ELCS for less compelling reasons than mine. I'd say that your reasons would be much more compelling, and would be very surprised if you were refused a future ELCS if that was the choice you wanted to make. Take care.

Can't read all the posts but just want to say that yes, I had a horrendous first birth and yes, I was given an elcs for my second.

It can happen!

Good luck!

Thandeka - so sorry to hear about your birth experience. Congrats on your dd! And well done for even contemplating having another baby already!

I had 3rd degree tear with ds2 and like cakeywakey was recommended to have an elcs next time around (which I did) so would second her comments. Had ds3 when ds1 was 5 and ds2 was 3 - recovery from planned cs can be much much more straightforward (ime) than after emcs.

Have the hospital offered you a 'birth afterthoughts' type service to help you understand what happened at birth of your dd? I used it after emcs with ds1 as I fretted that I'd done something wrong after a v normal pg and inital stages of labour suddenly turned into distressed ds and emcs. I know you have much more to work through as you had a much more complex delivery - it might be helpful? Good luck.

I think everyone's experiences are different, and only you can decide how you would prefer things to go next time.

I had a very difficult birth, which ended in an emergency section. I was in labour for 42 hours, with 4 exhausting hours of second stage before I was rushed to theatre. A doctor with only one eye (I kid you not!) performed the section after a failed ventouse, and in the process sliced through my round ligament and other structures and was unable to identify the source of the bleeding. I was open on the operating table for long enough for the spinal block to wear off, and was subsequently given a GA while a consultant surgeon was called in from home to find where the bleeding was coming from and repair the wound. My daughter was born blue and not breathing, with an APGAR of 1, but she is thankfully now fine. I was placed in HDU to recover, daughter went to SCBU, and OH was kicked out in the panic, and noone told him anything. During the 5 days DD and I were in hospital, I had heavy duty IV antibiotics to prevent any infections from taking hold due to the length of time I was open for - unfortunately the IV line had been incorrectly placed and the resulting leak of drugs into the surrounding tissue was intensely painful. I was treated disrespectfully (cable tied to the bed because 'I wandered too much for their liking,' refused privacy because it meant they could not see me from their desk without getting up, etc) and was desperate to escape. I felt crippled for weeks after the section, and was confined to the house unable to even lift my daughter.

In the days following I did not rule out having another child - I had always wanted 2, but I decided I would be doing things very differently. I am nearly half way through my second pregnancy and will be doing everything in my power to avoid an operating theatre. I have a private midwife and am pushing for a VBAC.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that while you had a terrible VB and would much prefer the calmness of a planned CS, I had a terrible CS and am looking forward to a much more (hopefully!) unremarkable birth second time round.

I don't think anyone can say that any way is better than another - only you can make you mind up wrt what will work for you. If you feel that your first experience was bad enough that a CS would be better next time go for that. I realise that you may have a lasting legacy in your daughter's health that may colour your opinion of what will be best for you. But in a role call of other women's experiences you will find that everyone is different and the final say is down to you.

Good luck in whatever decision you make. My mother's sister had a similar labour to mine and didn't have a CS - her son was born vaginally. He suffered awfully for it and died when he was 12. She went on to have 3 more children, all healthy and all birthed easily. What has happened to you once is unlikely to happen again.

I haven't read everyone's but my story is I had a rubbish first birth, non progressive days and days with contractions 5 mins apart but not dilating, a shed load of intervention and sinto drip in the end, and finally forceps for a baby back to back.

Second time even bigger baby 9lbs 8oz, back to back again, non progressive, intervention again, sinto drip, boy got stuck big time and finally C section with a lot of trauma to get him out, from his position. And follow up scan to check kidney ok from my baby crushing down on it for ages before C section...

The MW said my pelvis is obviously not quite right and if I want another baby, elec C section.

Now my SIL had a hideous first birth and with all 3 subsequent children, has had a C section. She says it brought her a lot of peace knowing she wouldn't have to worry or endure another hideous labour and knowing the LO's would come out happy and healthy. I've lost count of good friends whose 2nd labours were elec C sections due to problems first time round. It's not unusual and I don't believe for a moment the GP or MW would persuade you into a natural labour after your experience personally.

C sections are hard for the first few weeks, I had my mum to stay for 2 weeks to look after my toddler, it was fantastic. By 6 weeks after, I was ticking along just like nothing had ever happened.

Do whatever feels right for you after hearing some more testimonies x

Pandora69 - cable tied to the bed , words fail me that is just outrageous and surely not normal/legal? practise - I am so sorry you had to go through that and I wish you a very boring uneventful VBAC.

OP - please give yourself time to heal and do more debriefs and get your answer re ElCS in writing before TTC no.2, I hope it all works out for you.

rubberduckling - surely you can't be forced - I don't have any useful advice but if you feel strongly please get some more advice, NCt maybe or AIMS or ask for 2nd opinion or something. Good luck

Fingers crossed for you rubberduckling

Thandeka, my birth experience with DD was nowhere near as bad as yours, the main issue being my post partum haemorrage which was almost a near death experience and my susequent grade 3 (ie completely out) prolapse. I did indeed manage to procure a c section for my two subsequent births.

Thandeka

firstly so sorry to hear about your horrendous experience and I cant belive how strong you sound despte going through all that... and also proactive -coucelling, debrief ect all the right things to do... I just refused to go near any medical professionals (inc the GP) for 2 years despite the flashbacks and 2 years of Pnd. not a great coping strategy as it goes!

Anyway re choices second time around I think the more you can work through the issues with the first the less urgent the decision about how to give birth becomes if that makes sense. I was obsessed with whether/how to have number 2 and it took 5 years and 2 years of councelling (ongoing!) before getting pg again. Found i was able to contemplate a homebirth (limited medical intervention) or an elective (controlled medical intervention) and am going for the former(due today in fact). Still have concerns about induction and will be talking to the midwives tomorrow about my options for elc if i go over 42 weeks but also determined to cope if i cant.

That doesnt really answer your question but the sense ive had from talking to friends and midwives over the past few months is that consultants will generally accept previous birth trauma as a valid reason for an ELC second time around though just seen rubberduckling on this post had a different experience so as usual these decisions are a bit localised

Good luck with everything and enjoy your little one

I had a failed entouse delivery followed by for forceps for my dirt birth and have an elcs booked for two weeks today at 39 weeks consultant offered to me at 16 weeks registrar at 36 weeks tried to talk me out of it (consultants notes at 16 weeks were not keen on section which was correct atthe time) my hubby HD to stand up for me with the registrar as well but we got it booked and I feel much calmer as a result and am booking a full on pamper day the day before with dinner for my mum (who is coming to stay to look after dd) hubby and dd to finish the day off!

When you get to the stage of ttc you may have very different views you canrequest a debrief with the head of midwifery (I wish I had know that). But I suffered wiu my stiched area for a good six months after sonthat Made me mode deferminded this time to get it right! I'm not someone who has a desire to have a fully natural birth as long as both baby and me are healthy in don't mind!!!

Same as ghostinthebackofyourhead.
Horrid induced first birth, baby with shoulder dystocia, ventoused out, and stitches upon stitches. Horrid.

Second birth elcs was magical and wonderful, would do an elcs next time!

first birth - best summed up as thus - even the midwife started to cry - ended in section.

2nd - admittedly 7 years later

had vbac in birthing pool in hospital, best experience of my life - laid to rest old ghosts and proved to myself I was unlucky not somehow inadaquate. Brilliant experience thank god I had great consultant - he summed up all my questions and reqests as thus

"it's all about you - remember that"

GOOD LUCK do what feels right for you.

dd1 permanently damaged from her birth, second time insisted on cs:

told the midwife at my first antenatal appointment that i needed to have a cs for my sanity.

saw a consultant at around halfway through pregnancy, she refused to confirm it until around 8 months (power-crazed bitch) but when i spewed a load of facts and figures at her she said 'you are obviously well informed, oh okay then...."

at my final appointment it was a different doc: who was totally different in attitude and wholeheartedly supported me. so sometimes it's a case of getting a second opinion.

rubberduckling you CAN have a cs, just be prepared to keep insisting, i think they agreed a cs for me just to get me out of their office.

Hi all, can I ask what the process is for requesting a c-section after a traumatic first birth? Would you speak to your midwife at your GP's in the first instance? Or, do you contact the hospital?

Had a traumatic and longterm bladder damaging forceps emergency birth with DC1. Got agreement in principle to an elcs for any future pregnancies after a consultant debrief 2 months after the birth.

Now pregnant with DC2, confirmed at my booking in that I wanted the elcs this time. Saw the consultant who said he was happy to agree and I had more reason than many given the damage I have and the trauma I experienced. He also thought a vb would probably be fine but my choice. Had done lots of reading in between the birth and next pregnancy on risks/benefits of elcs especially for bladder incontinence and for me felt an elcs was the better option.

For me DD could've been badly in trouble as her heartrate crashed after being stuck OT, head side on, for hours. MW refused to check me when asked so by time realised I was fully dilated I was left for another 3 hours with no progress as she thought DD was in good position. Then the monitor noted the crashing heartrate, meconium in waters, oxgyen low etc and rushed to theatre for forceps and then emcs if that had failed.

While I might have a great birth this time I did all I could to make last time low intervention - started labour naturally 12 days overdue, was active, onlg G&A, etc but all for nothing. Contractions were every 2-3 mins and relentless. Have been referred to psychologist recently as still a bit haunted by DD's arrival.

I think you have great reasons for wanting an elcs and I think you should get an agreement in writing from your consultant that they would offer that if you chose if for a future pregnancy.

DD's birth was 17 months ago and this bean is due in June so I didn't wait too long to have another - partly my age/fertility and partly because I want it out of the way asap so I can get on with life post birth.

sweet jesus! not a thread to read when PG!

Thandrekea sorry for you, sounds like a shocker

Pandora, words fail me

Honey, the midwife was CRYING? OMG

But I am sure that if the birth ended in minor brain damaage (hope she is OK now), I am sure you will get an ELCS

I had an awful first birth at St Mary's and refused to ever go back to that hospital.

Had DD2 at Queen Charlotte's. I had flashbacks during the ante natal class and realised I could not go through it all again. I asked the consultant and she yes to C section straight away.
It is scarey, and painful when the painkillers wear off during the first few days. Generally I was up and about and felt much better than after the vaginal delivery though. The staff were absolutely fantastic and nothing was too much trouble for them - total contrast to the awful treatment at St Mary's.

porcamiseria have too say my after care was v good first time round - for me i was luckey and did not get the trauma of flashbacks etc you'll have a good birth as you'll get to meet bub -- and thats the best bit - look at the positive side of this thread we're all barmy enough either to be doing it again or have done again as the result is sooooo worth it!

I also had a horrific labour and childbirth and nearly died. If anyone reading this is pg with their first child I should point out that my younger sister is 5 foot nothing and weighs about 6 stone (when not pg) and she has had 6 large babies and each time she just pops them out in a couple of hours and then claims that she 'hardly felt a thing!' .

I had the midwife from Hell too. I would be a lot more assertive if I had to do it again. In fact as each midwife ended their shift and went home I started to think I was going to go full circle and see the first midwife again when she came back for another shift!

At one point I had a bath and as I got out of the bath I fell on the ground and couldn't get back up. The (mean) midwife opened the door and saw me on the ground and just rolled her eyes and muttered something about 'attention seeking' as she went off to get me a wheelchair - leaving the bathroom door wide open as she went! Honestly if she thought that my idea of attention-seeking was to lie on a dirty hospital floor, completely naked with the door wide open then she should surely have fetched a mental health professional not a wheelchair!

Thankfully all of the other midwifes were wonderful but if I was you I would plan it carefully in advance and be assertive. Whatever you decide, make sure that you make your needs and concerns known well in advance and make sure that you ask as many questions as you need to ask to help you make your decisions.

As porcamiseria says, the positive side is that we DO do it again. I would do it again but I would do it differently.

For one thing, I would yell at that (the mean midwife) to get the hell away from me and let someone else deal with me - not her.

For another thing I wouldn't have sent my hb home to 'rest' - next time he's going to be with me the whole time! Also, when I asked for pain relief the (bad) midwife just said 'diamorphine or this or that' and I was a bit scared of 'diamorphine' because someone had told me that diamorphine was 'medical heroin' and like an idiot I hadn't done my research to know what it actually was and I was a bit scared of it but she refused to explain anything to me, saying that 'I've told you once, if you're not going to pay attention...' and she walked away and left me with nothing.

I think you should be assertive and ask lots of questions and do lots of research about your options. If I had to do it again I would, but I'd take control, I think it was feeling powerless and frightened that made it such a bad experience for me. I could have gone through that exact same labour with my hb by my side (instead of sending him home to sleep!) and I could have insisted that people listen to me and explain my choices and I could have researched the pain relief options in advance and it would have been much better.

HTH

Thandeka Dont panic. If you want a c/section there is enough experience on MN to ensure you get one.

However, I think it would be sensible to make peace with your past experience before you fall pregnant again either way. I'm not saying you need to get over it because for some that is impossible, but it really does sound like you need to tackle those flashbacks because c/s or not, pregnancy will bring it all back amplified.

Please, every Mum here who has has received less than acceptable care whilst using maternity services, COMPLAIN. I know you may not feel able to but NOTHING will change unless service users comlain and keep complaining. NHS Managers simply say that there are no problems with standards of care because they do not receive complaints.
Jemnot - your midwife was a disgrace to her profession. How any woman can treat another in such a way is appalling, patients (in any NHS setting) should be treated with dignity and respect and any member of staff not adhereing to this should be disciplined.