Planned homebirth, now induction and hospital birth advised, help??

[mumtotwoboys]

I'm 39+5
Have a homebirth planned.
Midwife booked me in for a scan as tummy wasn't measuring much more than 3 weeks ago.
Scan was fine and baby was all well according to sonographer, blood flowing through the cord nicely, good heartbeat, etc.. estimated current weight 8lbs.
I go through to see a replacement consultant after the scan, as mine isn't in she says 'hi, etc' open scan graphs and tells me 'baby's weight seems to be trailing off graph slightly'. His head and legs have stayed in the 90th percentile but his abdominum circumfrence has gone down to 50th percentile.
So she goes 'shall we start you off then' in a tone where she may aswell have said 'do you fancy a cup of tea'
I pause trying to work out what that means and then go '...what'? She's obviously talking about induction.
She goes 'not right now, but within the next day of two'
er um okay... why?
So she explains if his weight gain is slowing down he's probably best off coming out sooner than later.
I tell her I'm trying to avoid a hospital birth as I have a 3 year old I've never spent a night apart from, I can't sleep in hospitals which made the last time hellish..
She says she'll call my midwife to see if a home birth is still possible.
And I go back to waiting room for another 20 mins
Consultant's assistant/ or midwife comes out to speak to me and tells me midwife is saying I should give birth in hospital now.
some background; midwife has been unsuportive of homebirth all along due to her own personal veiws and was jumping at any excuse to say I should be in hospital untill I tried to change midwife and then she suddenly signed the homebirth paperwork. Now consultant is calling her and she obviously says something along the lines of; 'yes she can have a hospital birth'.
I'm suspicious that she wants less homebirths so she's called out from her warm bed less often.

So I want to know exactly what the problem is and what's changed just cause baby's waist isn't as fat as average, I explain both me and father are naturally tall and slim.
Midwife can't tell me much but she just thinks baby should be born and 'fed up' with some milk obviously.
So she says she'll leave it a bit and book me in for next thursday (when I'm 40+5) and they'll want to induce me then to be safe.
(obviously nothing urgently wrong with baby)
So I say 'I'll probably have him before then anyway, so can I just stick to as planned before' she goes 'no you'll be told to come into hospital for labour now'
I'm like 'why? is my baby okay'?
She goes 'he's okay right now and should be okay if born right now..'
so I ask why a hospital induction then?
She says she'll get consultant to speak to me again, then she realises consultant has finished for the day.
Then I basically get told clinic is over, come back next week.
I asked what if I go into labour in the meantime (which I probably will) and don't want to come to hospital, she says 'we won't leave you to do it alone we'll send midwives out even though you were advised to come in'

So I'm left bewildered, it's not clear why they don't want to do homebirth, and I don't want a big phone argument about going in when I'm in labour, and I don't want reluctant midwives who come out with the 'you're putting yourself in danger' attitude.

If I go into labour now I don't know if I should stand my ground and stay at home :-s

the midwife who spoke to me after basically said she thinks baby would be fine if born now and thankfully told me i had the right to refuse not to come in, I've had two natural births before, and if baby DID need hospital I'm only 5 mins away.

But this consultant was acting like 'oh it doesnt look perfectly normal, I have a free lunchbreak we may aswell drug you up, drag it out and it all be done with'

I can't believe they've suggested an induction, without really telling me why :-(
I told them both me and the dad are naturally tall and slim so baby being that way could make sense.

I can't speak to midwife again untill next thursday it seems? but i'll surely have him in the meantime, and her writing 'hospital birth advised' could make things really dificult for me

I think if they did another scan they could get diffferent measurements as sonographer said it's all just a vague guide to weight.

I even asked for a membrane sweep before trying induction, they said it'll against protocol cause i'm not due for another two days (but they were happy to induce me within 1-2 days??)

sigh so confused..

Do I have the right to speak with another consultant urgently?
they seem to only work thursdays..

This is absolutely ridiculous.

First of all, scans are WILDLY inaccurate in the third trimester. WILDLY inaccurate. Advice is against routine scans in the third trimester because of this.

Your consultant needs to give you the exact reasons why a hospital birth is advised. You absolutely have a right to all the information you need to make a decision. They have to seek your informed consent to any procedure and they are not giving you the information you need to consent.

If you are unhappy with the reasons given, you can stay at home - they can't make you come in and they have to support you, whatever they have written.

You really need to know what exactly the risks are of giving birth at home, to you and to your baby and why they feel hospital is safer. (Doctors almost ALWAYS feel hospital is safer, though evidence says otherwise so you have to pin them down to specifics).

AIMS is probably a good organisation to talk to.

Good luck with this. Insist on the information you are entitled to. You do have a right to it.

Yes you do have the right to a 2nd and 3rd opinion and please please exercise that right.
I'm not going to post details because it's upsetting but my cousin didn't ask for a 2nd opinion when she was told her baby was ill at 24 weeks and it didn't have a happy ending.

Y'see, what's missing for me in this scenario is the reason why this baby must be born in a hospital, particularly? If the consultant had said 'this baby's growth is tailing off dramatically and we think he needs to be born asap' then fair enough, I can see you'd need to do that in hospital...but to shrug your shoulders and say: 'well we should induce him but not as a matter of urgency' well that doesn't make any sense, does it?

The key question, as other people have observed, is what is it about this birth, if it is not induced, that means it would be lower risk in the hospital environment? What, exactly, are they envisaging as the risk factors here?

And yes, I'm reading the statement 'we won't leave you to do it alone we'll send midwives out even though you were advised to come in' as being a grudging acknowledgement that actually, medically, you are perfectly fine to have a homebirth, whatever your midwife's personal agenda.

Thank you, it's really good to have people on my side.

I'm just so stressed if I go into labour tonight for example, i'll have to argue with them to come out to me, then they could come out with a bad attitude and treat me as if I'm causing risks to myself and it will all be so stressful if they're not supportive.
I honestly feel like having this baby alone and screwing the lot of them.
This is my third baby and I ruinned the last two experiences with dragging them out with epidurals, I wanted this one to be natural so I could do it at least for once as ~I may not have anymore.
The consultant goes to me 'we'd want to keep you on a monitor during the birth'
Like I'm doomed to be strapped up to a bed regardless now, for what she wouldnt say.

I can upload my ultrasound growth charts for anyone to see, this is all because the waist circumfrence has tailed off a bit, nothing else has. Blood is flowing through cord nicely, baby's heartbeat healthy..
I don't understand it at all.

Is an Independent Midwife a possibility? Or a doula?

You don't need to be fighting these battles at this point and you really want a supportive birth team that you trust and who you don't feel might trick you into hospital or transfer you for frivolous reasons.

I wouldn't go it alone but you definitely need some solid answers and some support with your decision.

I have a doula thankfully who will stand up for me if I refuse to go in.
I know that stress is a massive factor in causing complications which is why I wanted to stay at home.
You're right, I can't be arguing with them at a time like this, I think they should at least do another scan to double check before advising such a drastic change to my plans.

They told me baby is in the perfect position to be born, on side and head down, heart sounds good, scan looks good, i'm well, so what's up?
I kept asking midwife (who was sent out to wating room to explain things) 'why would I need to be induced'? she went on to describe how placenta can go on to deteriate when you go overdue, I said I'm not even due yet! and
she said 'no baby is fine right now'..
she had no straight answer for why homebirth was now not being advised, and went to get consultant to find out, consultant had gone home.

If I can be honest here without any professionals freaking out, then I will say that right now I plan on not even contacting any of them until I absolutely have to.
I dreamt I went for a routine check up to docs and they said my foot had to be broken and put into a cast, i said my foot is fine and was faced with arguments, this is exactly how this birth thing seems!

I think if I go into labour I don't want to tell anyone and deal with it alone and in my own comfortable home, call my doula, check myself, if my cervix seems to be getting toward 5 cms dilated , then ask doula or sister to call midwives, I only want them there for actual delivery.

When I looked into changing midwives before I found out that they all are on a rota which means theres the same likelyhood of either of them being on call regardless of who my midwife is :-/

They have put the frighteners on you big style. Maybe that wasn't their expressed intention but they have been callous and wouldn't know what sensitivity is it it came along and hit them with a stick.

Do as the butterflyeffect said in her post.

I would also avoid phoning them. Send either a recorded letter to the consultant, asking for a written reply why suddenly an induction is now 'advised'. tell him you would like him to refer to clinical evidence.

If you get a phone call, tell them you would rather discuss it in a meeting and have it followed up with a letter - and take your doula along.

Just because they are on a rota does not mean that you can't request to have a specific midwife not attend to you.

I did this because I had one who was particularly galling in the very sort of callous way you described. The mentality in endemic in some trusts and because it is, it is just business as normal to them. The midwife I removed from looking after me had a rocket put up her backside. The next woman who asked her for a home birth was greeted with a very different attitude, I can reliably tell you. Still, she slowly became very perfunctory and dismissive of her while she attended the clinic and this woman ended up hating her too.

First of all let me say I am so sorry for all the stress you are under and hope you have great RL supports who will help you with that.

My baby was born 3weeks+ overdue. At home. The way I was treated insisting on a home birth was appalling.

I researched my position, spoke to AIMS and other support organisations,made my decision on risks, was entirely selfish as far as the hospital was concerned,and agreed to regular scans and a sweep.

I would never want to go through that again, it makes me angry that they do this when a woman is at her most vulnerable, take advantage of all your natural worries and force you to act all militant when you least feel like it.

Obstetrics is the most litigated area of medicine and midwifes are chronically understaffed so I can understand them running shy of the least possible risk, but sometimes their risk assessment is based on controversial or outdated information.

I really feel for you and hope it all gets straightened out quickly.

UPDATE

Just very luckily got through to my consultant (on the phone (not the replacement one I saw)
She seems to be up to date with what was happening with me and I said 'I need to know what new risks there are now which would prevent my planned homebirth.'
She said 'well we found out you have an Igm deficiancy' and I said 'I know, I got that letter weeks ago (over a month ago) and it explained many people have it and never know and it's no real risk. And I said I had had the paperwork and homebirth agreed to since then anyway.
And she paused and said 'that's the only new(ish) information I can see.
So obviously she doesn't see the growth as risky at all, as the other consultant used the slightly declining growth rate as her reasoning against homebirth.
She went on to explain that if anything did go wrong, like too much blood loss, it would take longer to get medical attention at home. (would take all of 5 minutes by ambuliance).
There's nothing to say I'm any more likely to lose extra blood than there was before!!
I said 'what has changed since yesterday that means I now have to come to hospital?'
she basically apologised that she wasn't there for the appointment so couldnt be part of the decision, different doctors have varying veiws on whether I should be in hospital, etc.
and I said 'I don't see what great risks there are now for a homebirth and if I go into labour now I want to insist on staying at home'
She said; 'that's entirely your call'
and 'when you come in next week ask to see me'
I added that the consultant I'd seen yesterday had offered to induce me(!) she said 'I don't think that's necessary' and I said she also said they'd want to induce me next thursday at that appointment, she said 'what we may do is offer you a membrane sweep'.
and I said 'okay see you next thursday (i think i'll go overdue anyway)'
and that was it.

So what do I make of all that??

Well done you!

Sounds like they've given you the go ahead (in grumpy consultant speak).

don't have anything more to add, but wanted to say that with my last dd we made a huge fuss about having a home birth, and then transferred in. we weren't treated any differently to anybody else and didn't feel like they were saying 'told you so' at all.

Thanks :-D
I'm happy I questioned it all, could be sleep deprived and strapped up to machines and drips right now if I followed the other consultant's advice.

Good to hear they didn't say 'told you so' in your case nubbins.

I have to deal with midwives saying I'm going against 'medical advice' now, my midwife I suspect will be delighted that I've been told no, but her face will drop when I explain 'I'm still not going in'.
I've explained everything in this thread and there's no extra risks to speak of, hospital birth would create risks for me as I'd be incredibly stressed.
Hope I don't have too much trouble with the midwives now..

If anyone else has any experience with birthing at home "against professionals' advice" then would they share?

~Thanks guys

I am probably going to go against the tide here....just make sure that your wish to have a home birth does not override all. I know that alot of people on here are very very well informed, but they are NOT your midwifes and they are not your OB GYN.

If you were my sister, I would say dont be too stubborn and listen to the professionals, AND try to enrol them to go with what you want too.

It could be you compromise by refusing to have an induction, but maybe having a more natrual birth in a MLU?

I really hope that you get what you want, but remember its not about the birth, its the baby! and they might have very good reasons for wanting you to have a hospital birth

good luck

Porca, the point is they need to share those reasons with her. They have had every opportunity to share them. No-one's telling her to go against medical advice, we're just saying make sure you have all the information.

As I understand it, they have been unable to show that she and her baby are at any additional risk from a home delivery so why should she go to the MLU?

In my experience you only get the consultants getting involved when something is out of the ordinary. They don't get to see easy ordinary births and are usually put in the deep end with baby's who are stuck, heartrate dipping or huge bloodloss in mum. They simply want to control everything and give you the very best outcome, a live baby. However their 'bedside manner' leaves a lot to be desired. when I had Gd in the last 3 weeks of last pregnancy my junior consultant told me that
'sometimes women with gd, their babies just die when you get past your due date'
His attitude was get the baby out NOW. The MW's was lets just wait a while as baby was not ready.
I spent almost 2 weeks panicking and worrying and being very stressed out. Baby was born 4 days early and in perfect health.

Stick to your guns in wanting a home birth but are you prepared to go in if things go not to plan?

this new consultant who waltz in and said I should have a hospital birth, may have good reasons for it, but I'm not sure what they are IYSWIM
I would like to see my actual consultant hopefully before birth so she can put it in writing that there arent any substancial risks, as she seemed to say on the phone.

It's insane that you have to fight for a natural delivery.
My consultant said it may take longer for me to get attention if I bleed heavily, as a wild example of why hospital could be safer. nothing about baby. Then she would not say that I was anymore at risk than anyone else of bleeding heavily, lol
Did not bleed heavily with last two, they came out perfectly well.

Debs I think you're right homebirths are slightly alien to them.
I'm under consultant as I was losing weight, they found a bug, gave me anti-biotics and I've now put bac on 10 lbs in the last month so actually no reason to still be under consultant but you get stuck under them once refered apparently.

Debs I'm so glad you had your baby naturally and healthily without getting scared into induction/c-section unnecessarily!