Forceps seem to be used a LOT in One Born Every Minute

[lucysullivan]

I can't get over how often forceps are used on mothers in Channel 4's One Born Every Minute, every week some poor soul seems to be subjected to them and on tonight's programme forceps were used for 2 births. I've read on here the horrendous damage that forceps can do and know that in some hospitals they are not used at all for precisely this reason.

I've specifically requested in my birth plan for this baby that I will not consent to forceps. Worried though at the extensive use of forceps in British hospitals today, the women I've watched in the documentary don't seem to be told about the risks associated with them, to their health or their babys. Whereas I will be screaming for a c section if forceps are mentioned.

Does anyone else worry about the use of forceps? I'm starting to get very worried that despite me saying I will not consent to forceps I will be told it's either that or I'll be putting my baby at risk, so made guilty if I kick up a fuss about not consenting.

I am happy to agree to disagree about your preferences re: giving birth. That's absolutely fine. I am very pro-MLUs and anti- intervention unless medically necessary.

It just irritates me like hell when people state things which are factually incorrect and then go off the point and and talk about something else when its pointed out to them, rather than just admit that they got it wrong.

I do, however, wonder whether your friends are entirely typical of GPs if they really spend 99.9% of their time attending to bunions. The practice nurse at my health centre does that.

I'll be honest violet I do find it very hard to believe that a GP would risk using forceps so I think you're wrong in the qualifications that the gowned up Dr had because, the first thing you are sent in your information when only applying to medical school is that you err on the side of caution and if there's a better person for the job you go and get them.

I think their is a GP led birth unit in the North East maybe somewhere near Scarborough where the GPs work alongside the MWs so guess they would have more expereince than most GPs.

Even with an obstetric Dr you have no idea how much expereince they have. I've seen plenty of Drs doing an instrumental delivery on a woman and its the Drs first time doing it - they don't tell the woman that. The Dr who did my section, it was her first time and I didn't find out till afterwards.

Exactly stripey.

I find this scaremongering re: MLUs very negative.

If you want to do the high tech hospital route for having a baby, fine, your choice, but don't try to justify your choice by scaremongering about people who choose to give birth another way.

You may think I am 'wrong' MillyMollyMoo, but it was my birth, I was there, not you, I talked to the midwives before, during and after the birth, so with all due respect, I think I know what I'm talking about.

I intend to have a home birth, but should it all go anything but swimmingly I expect to be transferred to a hospital not for the local General Practitioner/Vet/midwife to have a go with a procedure which could if performed incorrectly brain damage my child, never mind the damage to the mother. I do find it very strange and hard to believe an ambulance wouldn't be called on the basis that forceps don't always work, so what would they have done next ?

When the hell did anyone suggest being transferred to a vet FGS? Or is that another attempt to go off the point because you just won't admit that you were wrong?

And actually there have been several high profile cases where obstetricians have caused damage to babies (sometimes fatal) and to mothers because of badly carried out procedures.

Anyway, it's tedious trying to discuss a serious issue with someone who just gets things factually wrong.

This actually worried me so much that I have just called my community midwife, who laughed and said no a GP would not be involved, straight to hospital, which is a relief. If that was what happened in your case I'm not sure whether it was good luck you got away with it or bad luck that they considered it an option in the first place.

Yea right MillyMollyMoo - glad you checked that with your community midwife! I feel so relieved to know that my birth 17 years ago was all a matter of sheer good luck, and that the doctor masquerading at the end of the bed was really not up to the job

Actually, I've just been browsing some other threads and have realised that talking utter shit is your forte! Check out the credit crunch topic where MillyMollyMoo talks bollocks about benefits!

17 years ago .... ah it all becomes clear ...

Yea, all babies born 17 years ago are so damn lucky to have survived all those charlatans. God, it's amazing the world has anyone over that age surviving isn't it?

< mad, mad, mad>

Things move on and generally improve for the better.

Sadly you don't seem able to move on in admitting when you talk bollocks though

You missed out the vital piece of information that you gave birth in ye olden days

MillyMollyMoo

You have given a lot of misinformation on this thread. Some GPs do assist in deliveries in MLUs, and also midwives can now train and qualify for particular procedures. My bf is a midwife and has done ventouse deliveries.

It isn't helpful to pregnant women to have misinformation bandied about. Many women are scared of childbirth anyway, and need support and encouragement to help them believe that they can manage it without intervention. Hearing rubbish about doctors entering MLUs and doing procedures they aren't trained to do is hardly going to help.

mears, yes, I totally see what you mean about forum experiences not being representative of the overall picture - there's a natural tendency for people to post when something goes wrong, not when it doesn't, of course.

off topic somewhat, but - that said, what I find utterly, utterly frustrating is the lack of CLEAR info and statistics about key areas. The word 'some' and 'most' are the most overused words in the whole field of birth, IMO. I want to know what proportion of women suffer fertility problems as a direct result of scarring from a CS, say - what proportion of women over 35 experience a longer labour than average - what percentage of primaparous women in non instrumental deliveries tear -

And I don't want to be told breezily, 'oh, most women are fine', or 'oh, some women get adhesions after a CS'... I want some facts! In no other area of my life would I be making key decisions based on such a lack of actual knowledge. And if it's all so straightforward, and I needn't bother my pretty little pregnant head about any of this, and Doctor Knows Best - why are their such wide differences in care and policy between different PCTs, from screening tests in pregnancy to preferences during labour? Quite often questions here are answered (with helpful intentions) by women posting saying 'oh, my midwife said this', or 'my consultant said that'. Which is all very well, but they do seem to come out with a lot of contradictory information!

I have a slightly sceptical starting point, I admit, in that I know for a fact from personal experience that 'forceps don't damage babies ever' is just nonsense - and I had my eyes opened to what an awful lot of twaddle is flying around about birth when my poor friend (the same one who had the awful birth experience) got the figure from somewhere that 25 percent of women who give birth in hospitals get post partum infections. She was panicked into wanting a homebirth because of this! Now, she might have had excellent reasons for wanting a homebirth, if based on FACT. But that 25 percent hospital infection figure was nonsense, and it scared her totally unnecessarily.

Anyhoo - all way off topic, but yes, I agree that message boards can offer a skewed overall picture. However, I think it would be a lot easier to contextualise individual experiences if clear, unbiased info was easier to get hold of in the first place. And it can read a bit callously here when some poor soul posts about a really bad experience, only to have someone post immediately after them, saying, 'oh, hardly anyone ever has that experience!' even if their motivation is reasonable.

Janey I am sorry but I disagree, it is not the norm for anyone other than a consultant to carry out a forceps delivery.
As for your boyfriend carrying out ventouse, i'm sure he is deemed qualified and is therefore a MVP, not a "normal" midwife but am equally sure I wouldn't allow it to happen to me.

My best friend, MillyMollyMoo, not my boyfriend.

And yes, she is qualified, not 'deemed' qualified. She is an excellent practitioner with an excellent record.

Look at some of the facts. There have been some horrendous cases of forceps deliveries being mismanaged with tragic consequences by obstetricians. And no doubt many other poor outcomes due to mismanagement by doctors who intervene too early. Give me a well qualified and experienced midwife over a tired out doctor who wants a woman to deliver before the end of his shift any day.

It is a pity you are wrong in so many of your statements because this is an interesting thread on a very topical issue.

Ou are looking at worse scenario's involving Dr's but you never get a tired midwife
Ventouse is also a completely different instrument from forceps, if we're being factual.

Yes I am aware that ventouse is different to forceps. I never suggested it wasn't.

TBH I find your stubborn self belief quite astonishing. You have made claims that are entirely incorrect on this thread eg:
02April23:10, stating that a GP would not have used forceps - not true
03April11.54:22, stating that GPs and midwives are not trained in using forceps - not true

You even had a midwife (mears) pointing out to you that she is doing the training currently! You are clearly delusional and cannot accept that you are talking rubbish. What you want for your own birth is your choice, but you are very unhelpful in stating things which are blatantly untrue.

A higher level practitioner, is not the standard midwife you would normally come across and their use is widely criticised by AIMS.
Mears is training towards that qualification which is in conjunction with many years of hands on experience, she is not your typical midwife.

If an obstetrician can mismanage a forceps birth with tragic consequences do we really want over stretched midwifes performing what is essentially a surgical procedure ?

I did state that a GP wouldn't perform a forceps delivery and based on what I have seen of my friends in professional mode, I am still finding it quite hard to believe, they call an ambulance first and then see if they are able to assist at the scene, they do not start performing even CPS until they know the experts are on their way.
But then of course they were 15 when violet had her baby.

Your dismissive attitude of highly trained professionals is quite disgusting.

You clearly can't accept when you have written things that are plain wrong.

I'm far from dismissive midwifes are my favorite people right now being 30 weeks pregnant myself, but as nurses have their limitations so do midwifes and at the risk of becoming boring and repeating myself forceps delivery's account for £242,782,343 which has been paid out in legal claims for obstetric damage since 1995 according to AIMS.
Is this not something we want performed by specialists and leave the midwifes to what they do best.

"Janey I am sorry but I disagree, it is not the norm for anyone other than a consultant to carry out a forceps delivery."

I'm sorry, but you so obviously have no idea what you're talking about as this is utter rubbish. How on earth do you think consultants know how to do forceps deliveries if they don't do them when they're training?! It is completely normal IME for obstetricians below consultant grade to carry out forceps deliveries.

It's a bit difficult though to engage in serious debate on this sort of issue with somebody who confuses CPR with the CPS.

Well my information comes from the horses mouth, the RCM website. I don't claim to have direct experience.
And it's a typo obviously

Has anyone pointed out that the thread title is bollocks? Actual forceps deliveries only accounted for two of the births in the entire series.