Can you come and tell me about your vaginal breech deliveries?

[newmomma]

Title says it all really.
Doctor and MW both said '2 weeks until we book you in for a c/s' which I'm terrified of...

Some wonderful MN'ers have informed me that a vaginal breech delivery IS possible and I was hoping some of you lovely people out there might be happy to come and tell me about your experiences.

Thanks

OK, here goes...I'm happy to give as much detail as you like, so I'm glad you asked specific questions!

At 39 weeks woke up with contractions at 4am, arrrived in hospital at 12.30 where I had an internal (8cm) and managed to have time for 10 minutes in the pool preceded by a very comical scene of my partner and doula trying to peel the TENS machine pads off my back. Had the urge to push so got out of the pool and into a kneeling position in the corner of the room on the floor, supported by bean bags piled onto that big foam shape thing. FOr quite a while I was unaware of the consultant coming back into the room. After 35 minutes of breathing through contractions and some involuntary pushing, with the midwife using a sonicaid(?) after each one, the feet, body and arms emerged. After that I didn't feel any more contractions but pushed a bit anyway. The midwife was right behind me and I knew that she could see the cord but it was too long for the doctor to wait and I was asked to get up onto the bed into the stirrups as she called for the forceps trolley to be fetched. Two minutes later the head was delivered by the consultant, without forceps but also without any official record of a specific manual manoevre to deliver it. I was pushing too! I do wish I'd been given enough time and space to birth the baby into the midwife's hands, but I think by that stage I'd just clammed up with the pressure around me.

So...overall that was 8 hours as compared to 44 hours with my first (spontaneous onset, ARM, augmentation, epidural and forceps). Obviously I had an episiotomy with the first, and then a second degree tear with the breech (healed up fine), though probably should have persevered with the perineal massage a bit more.

It wasn't really the midwives who were the ones supporting me (neither the community midwives or hospital outpatient ones). I was lucky to have found out through hearsay which consultants would be supportive, including the one my care was allocated to by area, so I knew who to ask to see and I think that they also saw that I knew what was going on including the risks involved. My friend who I mentioned perceived herself to be less supported in the same hospital, so decided to transfer her booking to an MLU in a different county where she'd had her first, particularly since having heard that there'd been a planned vaginal breech birth there that same week. I definitely couldn't have afforded an IM, and I'm not sure if there are any in my area who've had any more breech experience than the NHS ones.

Even though I knew I wasn't going to have the baby at home, I went to a homebirth group and then a yoga class at the same place in the few days before and I attribute a large part of my positive experience to having met the women I did there, including the woman who came on the day as my doula, now a good friend who I meet up with regularly. Are there any birth support groups in your area that might be able to help you navigate your way through the 'system'? I don't know about luck on the HCPs, but I definitely feel lucky to live somewhere where there are alot of women looking out for each other.

Thanks MiaRaeDeb.

I phoned the MLU yesterday and they won't touch a vb delivery with a bargepole.
They said (I'm booked in with the JR in Oxford) that I might struggle to find anyone to assist in a breech delivery as so few midwives have experienced them that they don't have the confidence.

She said my best bet was to try for an ECV.

Its positive to hear that your labour wasn't ridiculously long or problematic (and in comparison with your marathon first labour!) and that gives me hope. My first labour was just over 12 hours, not induced, and very little damage. Natural delivery, pethidine and g&a. So I have confidence that if things progress 'as nature intended' that my body could cope. I guess my problem will just be whether or not I find the support from the HCP's or not.

I don't get the feeling from my midwife that she'll be open to any suggestions other than a straightforward c/s.

I hadn't heard of birth support programmes but I'll look into it. It would be useful to know what my rights are and what I can reasonably ask them to do for me.

My last question, I think... Is would you do it again? No regrets? The thought of a 2nd tear is a bit scary for me - but I guess, putting my sensible head on, is preferrable to a c/s. They gave me 2 stitches I think with my first (and they were quite high up as I started pushing before I should - couldn't help it) and they only did those as a precaution. So the level of damage is a scary thought for me - but I need to keep it in perspective. Tearing or caesarean...

Thanks very much for answering my questions - I really appreciate it.

I'm sorry to hear you're not getting what you need from the HCPs, but I'm glad you're looking into it further. Although I didn't think any of it would work, I did alot of attempted baby turning just so that I could say to myself I gave it all my best shot, whatever the outcome - I guess the same with 'what if I'd never even asked for this or that...'.

I can't remember how many weeks you are, but if you haven't already you could try Jane Evans' booklet 'Breech Birth - What are my options?' from AIMS. It really helped me get a balanced picture and was also not too heavy reading for my partner so he could catch up with what I was considering. It looks like you can also phone AIMS for advice too:
www.aims.org.uk/

Re: the tear, the midwife actually asked me whether or not i wanted it stitched up so I guess it can't really have been that bad, more like a first degree. Maybe I didn't really get to stretch that much my first time because I had the episiotomy.

Your last question (don't worry if you think of more!)...Absolutely absolutely no regrets. I would do it again at the same place with the same people, even the doctor because I'm glad she experienced it too, whatever her perception of it in retrospect. I'll be truthful; my first childbirth experience led to post-traumatic stress and combined with social circumstances to post-natal depression of sorts and maybe my ante-natal consultant understood my own reasons for at least needing to attempt vaginal breech.

As you can see, it's a very personal decision and not necessarily the right choice for every woman with a breech baby. However, I think it's outrageous that women find themselves having to fight at a time in their lives when it's supposed to be all about the love. I don't know how hard I would have fought had I been really challenged - but modern life's about choice, right? and I didn't think I was being unreasonable in my wishes. Whatever you choose, you've got my support - I'm happy to keep talking!

Please don't be terrified of a c-section, there's really no need to be. I had one and it was f-a-n-t-a-s-t-i-c!! Didn;t feel a thing, up and about with baby a couple of hours after the spinal wore off, ver little pain relief needed and a very qucik and totally uneventful recovery. In fact my expoerience was that I seemed to be in no more discomfort than some of the women who'd delivered naturally and torn or had to be cut. Also a lot of women who'd delivered vaginally were complaining of bad afterpains which I didn't seem to notice at all. I'd have another tomorrow - no question - and can't recomment them highly enough.

Frankly, (excuse the pun!) the prospect of delivering a breach baby vaginally would terrify me! I would be worried to death about the head getting stuck while the rest of the baby was out and it being starved of oxygene and them needing to cut me in order to release it.

Do be aware that some vaginal tears/cuts can be tough to recover from and cause problems afterwards.

Not exactly personal experience but sort of. I was born via a vaginal breech birth and so was my sister and clearly we have lived to tell the tale!
I was undiagnosed until 2nd stage so not much choice and I think my poor mum had the worst of both worlds thing: consultant called, stirrups, episiotomy, forceps, lots of pethidine but amazingly after that she chose to have my sister vaginally who was also breech after a failed ECV. She had her in a midwife led unit with no intervention and no problems at all. Finally with her 3rd child she actually had a cephalic one!
I am not the right kind of doc to advise medically but I read the medical press and I recall feeling angry about a BMJ editorial on the term breech trial. It was basically saying that no breech baby should ever be delivered other than by CS. I feel strongly that women should be informed and make their own choices not have all choice taken away as seems to be happening to you. There are significant downsides of having a CS not least the time it takes to recover and a woman might legitimately feel these outweigh a tiny increased risk of complications.

Newmomma, please don't be scared of an ECV. I had one at 39 weeks and it was absolutely fine.

I was scared it would upset DS but he was absolutely fine, no distress at all. It was a bit uncomfortable when the cons turned him but really it wasn't sore for more than a couple of seconds- I'm a real wimp so I'm not playing it down. The worst thing is the worry beforehand.

Who's been saying it's so bad anyway? Mine was succesful so that has probably influenced how I feel about it- maybe if it hadn't worked and I was very disappointed it might not have seemed worth it IYSWIM.

The other thing to bear in mind that if baby is turned not long before the start of labour (was a few days for me) they may not be well descended when labour starts so it can be long. But, I think, less worrisome than a breech vaginal delivery?

I would have gone for a vaginal breech delivery if the ECV had failed. I would also have an ECV again if I needed to.

I hope you find the support you need.

Thanks ladies,

Have decided to have an ECV - just got back from the midwife and they will offer me one if baby doesn't move. Its great to hear some positive stories (why do people always feel the need to tell me horror stories that aren't even their own!?). The student midwife in the room looked in her notes and said that apparently 80% of them are successful! Yay!

She thinks the baby may have changed positions but can't be sure. I have had awful stitch like pain very low down this morning and when she examined me to try and ascertain the position I could have cried.

She thinks it might be because they baby has changed position and that's why I've got the pain. But I have to wait until my 36 week appointment (3 weeks today) for her to examine me again and if she still can't be sure then she said they'll send me for a scan to decide.

My really fantastic news is that I told her how upset I've been stressing about a c/s and she was completely lovely. She said she'd support me through a vaginal breech delivery happily. She didn't bat an eye-lid. She even said she'd let me do it at home if I wanted! So - I may not be able to have my MLU waterbirth but I may be able to go to the RBH and have as close to a 'natural' birth as possible given the circumstances.

So - they've sent off some MRSA/StrepB swabs and I'm on countdown.

The only problem now is that I thought I'd find out for sure today which baby up the baby is and then be able to spend the next three weeks moving her. As it is - there doesn't seem much I can do to move the baby in case she's already in the right place!

I just wanted to say thank you so much to everyone for your supportive stories and comments - I'll come back and tell you all how things pan out in 3 weeks time.

xxx

So glad to hear about the midwife being supportive! Hope you're feeling less stressed. I asked around a bit for anyone who might be able to give extra support in your area and was recommended that you could just call Jane Evans (worked lots with Mary Cronk I believe - you should be able to find her number through Independent Midwives UK) - she'd be happy to give general advice and support and will no doubt have positive ideas on encouraging baby to turn.

what great news, hope the baby has turned... but what a great attitude re: breech delivery

Thanks ladies.
Am feeling slightly less stressed but the niggling feeling that my midwife was just saying she thought the baby had moved to try and stop me stressing until my next appointment won't leave me.

My lovely gran offered to pay for a private presentation scan so that I can either

find out the baby cephalic and stop worrying or
find out the baby is breech and actually start being proactive about turning her.

So - appt booked for Tuesday at 2pm. Not a flash 4d scan, but at least I'll know...

I'll keep you informed.

Scan today.

Bit scared...

And now I have to go on my own...

My gran has a man coming to look at her fridge?!?

Hello

I would like to sound a note of caution which you can feel free to ignore...my DD1 was breech and when I had a CS it took 4 attempts to pull her out as her head was wedged up towards my ribs. Now your breech could be very different but it would have been crazy for me to attempt a vaginal delivery. I appreciate all the talk of too many CS's but sometimes it is in the best interests of the mother and baby.

limitedwarranty - what would have been crazy about attempting a vaginal delivery? If your DD's head was too firmly wedged under your ribs then she would not have moved down at all leading to a non-progressive labour, which a MW skilled in breech will usually take as an indicator that a CS is required.

newmomma - really hope your LO has got their head down and sorted. A little belated, but my DD1 was born as a vaginal breech baby. She was my first and weighed in at 9lb 12. After doing a lot of reading we came to the conclusion that a breech birth was not dangerous as long as we had MWs skilled and experienced in breech birth - and in order to guarantee that we used IMs. I quite enjoyed the birth and didn't find it particularly painful at any point, possibly because, mentally, it was all very positive and everyone was working together. I certainly found DD2's birth more painful (6lb 11, cephalic) - I distinctly remember her crowning (which was the painful bit), whereas DD1 was a much squishier, more comfortable affair!

Hurrah........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Baby has moved head down. Seems silly to have such a long thread based on something that doesn't matter now - but I am eternally grateful to all of you who helped me through the stressful last few weeks.

Scan confirmed I am only 33 weeks (thought I was over 34) so I asked if that meant there was time for the baby to move back breech again. The sonographer said there wasn't masses of fluid for her to move in so it was unlikely. Although she couldn't confirm the sex (4th scan with no confirmation...!!) Guess I'll just have to wait and see.

And who knows - I might have to refer back to this thread in the future, or with DC3...!

Thanks again lovely MNers! xxx

Ah, that's brilliant news!
So pleased for you

Yeah So pleased you don't have to worry about breech any more

Only thing, though, is that I'd be very wary of taking a date from a scan this late - IIRC babies stop developing at a standard rate at about 8 weeks and the further you go beyond that point the larger the spread you'll get on the growth curves. If you think you're 34 weeks based on your last period and an early scan then I'd be very cautious of changing based on a a scan this late.

I am definitely going to keep in mind my original due date (8th May), my period date... Especially as DS1 came two weeks early and I was away from home with no notes or hospital bag...

But the 12 week scan put my due date to 17th May and the measurements on the recent presentation scan put me at exactly 33+1 (spot on!) with due date of 17th...

So am going to just camp at home form the beginning of the month (or whenever two weeks before the 8th is) and hope the baby come sooner rather than later. Haven't especially enjoyed being pg this time.

Am seeing the midwife next Monday and am hoping she'll confirm baby hasn't moved back. Movements all seem to be still in the wrong place, but then they felt in the wrong place before and baby was head down, so I'm going to stop listening to my instincts!

Happy Easter for tomorrow everyone.