Do you think less women would opt for c-section if they still did the old vertical incision?

[SoupDragon]

Nothing judgemental here, just something that I wondered about after seeing mention of the old vertical incision method on another thread.

Obviously the "new" unobtrusive version is a vast improvement.

Well as someone who is debating CS vs VBAC, I would say that it would definitely be a factor for me, not just the visible scar but the fact that it messes up your stomach muscles I think if you have a vertical incision? Must surely make recovery more difficult, which is a main criteria when considering which route to take, as will have a 19 month old when I have my second child.

rubena actually I think you're wrong, I think when people talk about cs overhang it is actually something like the overhang/puckering you mention, I was asked if I had an overhang after my CS, my answer was no despite the fact I had a massive pendulous belly. My belly was fat, and it was obvious, and it went away when I dieted.

I wouldn't call what Pandora describes as an overhang. I have a similar small ridge along my scar but nothing overhangs and before this pregnancy it was back to flat. I have seen pictures of overhangs and they really do hang over the scar.

Rubena, you wrote "No overhang thing - and anyone with one after CS would have the same with natural" It was only in your later post you wrote the word elective. No wonder I was confused! Unfortunately, it is a naive assumption to think that the repair can always be taken at a more leisurely rate - without going into it in too much detail, in my case the repair turned into just the next emergency, with repairs being hurriedly made against the clock while my spianl block was wearing off, ultimately resulting in a panicking anaesthetist putting me under too quickly, and me suffering a major crach in blood pressure. I was then left open on the operating theatre table for too long while a more experienced surgeon than the one attempting the operation was called in from home, and was put at a hugely increased risk of wound infections. Nothing at all leisurely about it.

"I can infer from your comments that you were of course upset that your labour culminated in a failure to deliver naturally, and to add insult to injury, the resulting surgery left you with an ugly scar, for which I feel truly sorry for you."

I was not upset that anything I did during the birth of my child was a failure of anything on my part. (Neither do I have an ugly scar. I have a very thin, if lop-sided line well below my bikini line, with the aforementioned ridge along my stomach a little higher up. I am not sorry for me about my scar, nor do I expect pity from anyone else.) What I am rather cross about is the frequent misrepresentations made about C sections, including being told to my face (as I have been) that I took the easy way, that I have 'failed' to give birth, and the latest - that an overhang is only ever the result of over-eating and under-exercising.

I would "opt" for my healthy DS and any kind of scar, than any alternative any day.

I didn't mean to offend anyone and I also think that there is some confusion between what I am refering to as "overhang" rather then scarring etc therefore I will take a step back. I was referring to "fat" overhang and that was all.
I thought the theme all along in this thread given it's title was "elective" so didn't feel the need to clarify that I wasn't talking about an emergency cs.
Summer- confused by your post as well - you disagree with me but then go on to say exactly what i was trying to say

Sorry all.

Yeah I thought yuo might be confused, what I mean is that there appears to be such a term as c-section overhang, and even when I had a big stomach after giving birth it was clear to me that my large stomach was not due to the scar. So I'm just saying that whatever overhang is I seem to have avoided it, and I don't think there would be such a thing that people talked about if it was just the same as normal post-giving birth flab, as it's totally clear to me what's just flab!! I've also heard people talking about it on here, and it doesn't sound like fat, more like a flap of skin?

Anyway I think some people are missing the point, surely the original question is "would more women attempt natural childbirth" if the scar was vertical. Obviously if you were told during labour you needed a c-section you would have one and do what is best for the baby, but there are cases (such as people who have had bad tears, or first em-cs) where the woman would probably be told that although they could attempt vb they might want to opt for cs? In this case I think yes the way the cs is done might be a factor in their decision.

I think fewer people probably would opt for a cs if the scar was vertical - ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL - but depends on so many factors.

Obviously the health of the baby comes first but I don't think there is anything wrong about being mindful of cosmetic effect. It doesn't make you a WAG at the Portland.

I am still fat from my baby 14 months ago but once I do finally get rid of the weight, my (elective) cs scar is brill and unobtrusive. However, I will be having another in 7 months and am not expecting such a magnificently neat and tidy scar next time

Hello Lady,
A friend of mine has a very minor medical condition which she was unaware of until seeing the GP about problems losing baby weight (she was quite thin before pregnant) and was told this is a reason she is having problems shifting the weight.

I was far too general in my post above, and it also sounds and reads in a way that it wasn't meant to, iyswim. I also do believe that there can be other factors involved apart from just over eating and under exercising, however I also think there was a misunderstanding with the wordings used etc, perhaps on my behalf.

I also asked the doctor about second op scarring etc, and was told if it's all planned and routine, it's all to do with the way you heal so there's no reason it should be any different the second time around.

Anyway, I think this thread has been done to death, and has also strayed far away from the original topic, so am sorry for that.

I don't think it would be a good idea to change the rules on the grounds that it might put people off as a vertical scar carries more risk of rupture in subsequent pregnancies.

You haven't offended me Rubes and anyway, I know that part of the reason I haven't been able to shift the weight is the insulin resistance. I am on Metformin which is supposed to make my body more sensitive to insulin but they have mucked around with my dose and I can't take it anyway now as I am up the duff. Very off topic, sorry!

Trouble is, the original thread question seemed to be coming from the place of 'if we change the rules to make sections more horrid or dangerous, maybe fewer people would have them' - the implication of which is that they are undesirable. Well, I loved mine...it was great for me. But I do see that it would be someone else's idea of hell, in which case, I hope they also get to give birth the way they most want.

I don't think we should stop there. Howabout no pain relief whatsoever for welfare mothers? - that should put a few off. Ditto recent migrants who have put nothing into the NHS - the most basic of care should make them a bit more careful about getting pregnant. Obviously all cosmetic surgery on the NHS should be done so as to ensure the resulting scars leave the patient less happy than before the op. As for gastric bands then howabout suturing in a sign saying 'I ate too much' (unless of course the recipient can truly prove an urgent medical reason for their obesity).

Well human rights legislation would probably stop you for starters. And of course you will be shuddering at the above and saying oh no I'm only talking about elective sections when, as LadyThompson so aptly concludes, you suggest that we make them more horrid or dangerous. But what's the particular obsession with sections and not other elective surgery or procedures costly to the NHS/taxpayer? Like LadyThompson I loved my sections, but wish everyone to have their own choice of birth. Yet some people just can't stop wanting to restrict women's choices. Jealousy? A need to control? Dunno, but you certainly have some issues. If it's a bad birth experience I'm sure that counselling would help, and I don't begrudge you the cost at all.

Worzel- I almost had one too because of tiny DS.

They told me before my planned CS that it would be a classical as the lower segment would not be favourable with a baby so early and small, and that if I did have a classical CS I would be advised to have sections in the future. They also said that my external scar would be horizontal, only the internal cut vertical.

Thankfully lower segment was favourable enough to do a bikini cut so I can try for VBAC next time...

What an odd way of thinking of the world - to perform surgery in a more dangerous and painful way to put people off having a c-section?

I'm a size 8 (can fit into 6's in some shops) I have an overhang from my CS I had with DS1.

I can assure you that's it's nothing to do with overeating and under exercising. Indeed a few years back when I had the time and inclincation I worked like crazy on my stomach muscles - they were looking pretty good.............but I STILL had the damned overhang.

It would have made no difference, I would have had ECS regardless.

My horizontal scar is above the bikini line and I am proud of it - it got my DC2 safely into the world and is a constant reminder of a positive birth, unlike all the vaginal and perineum scars I have from DC1's forceps birth.

I opted for an elcs after a traumatic emergency birth as I felt it safer for DC2 and safer for my longterm health given ongoing bladder issues. I don't plan on any more children so future births don't concern me. A vertical scar wouldn't have changed that at all - especially if you are just considering the cosmetic side of it. I would be totally fine with noughts and crosses on my stomach if it meant DC2 and I got through the birth in the best possible way.

I do know someone who I suspect is as near as "too posh to push" as might exist. The thing is, I kind of think maybe she was scared of labour and all it entailed. At the end of the day, serious fear could well trump any desire to avoid an ugly scar.

Also, the bikini incision can be quite neat but not always. I don't know about anyone else but I had no idea what my cs scar would look like before the op. I'd never heard about lopsided scars, overhangs or whatever. And when people tell me they can't see their scars my jaw drops. So I am not sure how much of a consideration a scar might ever be.

Can I just point out that there is a big difference between emergency and crash and most women who have emergency sections don't get crashes therefore the baby is not pulled out in a hurry!

Emergency just means "we need to take the baby out today" crash is the one "lets get this baby out NOW!" and we don't even have the time to say that!

I'm really angry about the greedy and lazy comment!

I waited 4 1/2hrs for my "emergency" CS (thus called emergency as it wasn't pre-planned........but also - obviously - no great rush on the day either..........of cousre it turned out later they were talking utter bollox and it's unlikely I really needed to have that CS.......but hey ho.)

It's that bloody word "elective" again. I chose my CS, in that the choice was "section or probably die".

Er no, an overhang is NOT caused by overeating, it is the result of the scar tissue being tigher than the surrounding skin. My sister is a surgeon and she has seen skinny girls in their teens with overhangs after other types of abdominal surgery.

Oh yes, I'm a porker and have no overhang . 12 months on and the scar is nearly white too.

rubena - I have a definite overhang - you can't physicaly see the scar when I stand up.

Please explain to me while I had a tight stomach - the overhang was still there if it was a case of over eating and lack of excercise.

Damn - I almost had a 6 pack ..........but it looked bloody stupid with this saggy bit of skin hang over my scar at the bottom of it so I gave up on that one and at least now it's all a bit wobbly (but still slim).

My first, emergency, section was a vertical internal cut. Well, vertical and horizontal. A T shape.