Have you had a de-brief after a difficult birth? How long after? Did it help you?

[MamaG]

I know I touch on this every couple of months

I'm glad to have read this thread. In copmarison to most I have nothing to complain about, but I still get weepy over DD2 birth. The whole pregnancy hadn't felt "right", I measured small for dates the whole way through, diagnosed with low amniotic fluid, fortnightly scans, decreased fetal movement but went into labour spontaneously. All went fine until she became ++ distressed - when I looked at the notes later apparently her heart rate went down to 60 bpm - and I pushed her out just as they were breaking out the forceps. She had the cord x3 around her neck. I looked at her from what seemed like a million miles away and she was completely blue and I thought she was dead. The thing was she had hardly been moving and I did go in once to get checked but the CTG was fine, and I felt like I was making a fuss.

DD3 is four months old and I still feel angry about her birth. I was induced for raised BP, but it wasn't pre-eclampsia and my bloods were fine.They ruptured my membranes at 11pm and pushed the synto from 0000, and I declined and declined but they kept pushing me until I felt I had no choice but to say yes, I had it at 0600 and she was born at 0659. I still feel really angry that I let them put it up as I really didn't want it- it turned perfectly manageable pain into something i couldn't handle. I think I might ask for a de-brief now I've read this thread.

Sorry, and to answer your question I had a de-brief - of sorts - about an hour after the birth of DD2 - at which point I was barely awake. I think the mw did realise I was quite traumatised by it.

Poledra - thank you. I shall look into this.

I know MN isn't a gushy sort of site but I feel a bit gushy right now so bare with me please!
I just want to thank you for highlighting this for me. I feel that I have started the ball rolling.
This morning I admitted to DH how anxious I was feeling about labour this time round and told him I was going to speak to the mw about it.
I had my mw appointment today and the mw I saw was the one who came into theatre with me, not the one that was there for most of the pushing. I explained to her that the consultant at the 12 week scan had rushed through the appt and basically said we encourage VBAC I'll see you again at 38w and I was shoved out the door. She said that I could discuss the birth at the 38w appointment and I said that it was bothering me now and I really needed to go over some of the details of DD's birth so that I knew what went wrong and I would feel more reassured about it all. She has agreed to request my notes from the hospital and will call round to the house and go over it all with me. She said it might take 2-3 weeks to sort out but she would be in touch. I had a wee tear in my eye when I was talking to her but didn't completely loose it and now I'm back home I feel so much calmer already knowing that I'm dealing with the problem. I think it is so ingrained in us not to make a fuss and bottle up our emotions (or maybe it's just my family) but I really think I've done the right thing so once again thank you

I'm really pleased Smac! Do let us know how you get on

Smac - do YOU want to try a Vbac or would YOU rather a planned section?

Following my daughter suffering shoulder dytocia during birth (as well as other related issues that I dont really need to go into atm) I went to see the consultant at the stitch clinic (Episiotomy and a third degree tear along with other tears that required stitching). As he was talking to me he was dictating the letter that was to be sent to my GP and put on my notes. As I was healing ok he said - he saw no reason that "further births should not be normal vaginal deliveries" - at which point I said "Well if you are going to write that mate, I am telling you now there wont be any future deliveries!!!". I explained about the dytocia, how close I had come to losing my little girl (and to be fair ME). He had obv not read through my notes properly and quickly re taped the paragraph "The mother has concerns resulting from a significant shoulder dytocia and the method of any further deliveries should be discussed". I asked if this meant that he was oking a section and he said if thats what I wanted at the time then YES!

Anyway - Mamouth post but what I am getting at is that YOU can decide what YOU want to do. If that means trying for a Vbac or opting for a section it should be your choice, then at least you will get some control back

Hever I don't feel strongly one way or another at the moment. I am not scared by the thought of surgery again, I had abdominal surgery following an ectopic pregnancy and that took a lot longer to recover from than the CS. (laparoscopy and laparotomy)
I don't mind trying for a VBAC but I don't want to labour for hours and end up with emcs again, if I need a CS I'd rather just have a planned one.
I've read that if failure to progress was the reason for emcs then your stats for successful VBAC are lower than other reasons for VBAC eg breech, foetal distress etc.
I'm also concerned as I had a DD and generally speaking boys are bigger than girls, my girl was not massive but fairly large with a large head, second babies are often larger than first, if she wouldn't come out then will baby #2?
On the other hand if DD was brow presentation then it is quite possible that baby #2 would come out no problem if they just tucked their chin in.
I think I really just need more detail on what happened first time round so I can make an informed choice for #2.

Hey Smac, re your decision on VBAC - DD1 had a head circumference on the 95th centile - she was the section. DD2's was on the 99th and DD3's on the 97th and they were the VBACs

I had a meeting with a consultant about 3mths after the birth. Not sure if that was meant to be a debrief or not. But he didnt go into much detail. Just said "oh dear, you did go through a rough time didnt you!"

Im now newly pregnant with number 2 and already starting to worry about the birth. Just reading this thread has made me feel quite teary

I intend to ask alot of questions at the booking in appointment and may well ask about this debriefing thing. I feel there are many many unanswered questions and really really dont want a repeat of DD's horrible birth.

Yes, we had to ask for it, daily, and I was finally seen by a consultant at Kings about 4 days after dd's birth. I would have preferred to speak to any of the doctors, midwives or anaethetists (sp?) who were actually present at the birth because the consultant could only guess at what had happened by reading through my file.

Time has been a healer for me. Corny but true. Plus a text book elective c-section for my second birth .

I had a debrief when DD was about 3 months old through the birth afterthoughts service. It didn't really tell me anything I didn't know but it was good being taken through my notes and realising that we couldn't have done things any differently. I'm now pg again and feel quite at ease about the whole thing as I know that hopefully things should be better this time round but at least I made it out the other side last time so can do it again.

I didn't have a debrief after my first birth, but I wish I had, so that I could have been clearer going into my second.

I had an almost identical delivery - early and fast - and came up against the same issues of MW not trusting my judgement.

When I attempted to explain to them about not having regular contractions, etc, at first birth (yet fast delivery) they just said 'every labour is different'...

I really wished that I had some notes from my first delivery so that they could see with their own eyes that it was a carbon copy - then I might have managed to get some decent pain relief in time!

Also, I think it is very natural to be anxious about labour in 2nd or more pregnancies - you know what to expect in some ways!

I had one when DD was 6 weeks old with my consultant, arranged when I was released from hospital. Had also had lots of time with MW who delivered DD and second MW to discuss what happened. Still not sure I'm over it at 10 months but we'll see how I do if we have another. A debrief should be offered automatically perhaps at the 8month development check so you don't have to ask for one and feel like perhaps you're being a bit silly - you're not.

I wish I'd had one. My DD was huge, 17 days late (nobody would listen to my dates, they went off scans which showed her at 7lb) and 10lb 10oz, I was induced and also had an epidural, emergency ventouse and shoulder dystocia. Post-birth issues include very weak bladder control/ low sex drive / PND, trouble bonding (IMHO anyhow)

I was absolutely PETRIFIED, with sleepless nights, worrying all the time that the same horrendous birth would happen again with DS, so my MW arranged an appt for me to see the Consultant. The Hospital sent this stupid cow of a registrar, and said I had nothing to worry about, baby was normal size for dates.

Guess what, he was almost 10lb and was born by elective CS the day before he was due. He also measured about 7lb.
DH and I DEMANDED for this stupid cow to get the Consultant in, because I was in such a worried, petrified state, I dropped a cup of water and she didn't offer to help clean up or anything, just looked down her nose at me.

Gawd I get worked up just typing this!! So in answer to the OP I have never gone for a post bith de-brief, I only found out about it after I had DS. Wish I had but not sure it's worth it now??

Tuby, it is worthwhile, if only to help you feel better about the situation. You're so clearly - and justifiably - angry about it all.

Ladies: if you're not happy about the care you received, particularly if you feel that it had a bad effect on your labour, try contacting the Association for Improvement in Midwifery Services. They can't necessarily do anything for you, and I don't think they provide a debrief service, but they can discuss some things with you and suggest routes you might want to take, questions you might ask. I found them very helpful and sensible.

I can totally relate to you all.
The hospital told me 3 months afterward that I had a very traumatic birth and that I could come back to talk about it. I didn't understand that they were offering counselling . DD is now 4.5 and 21 weeks on pg 2, I can't think or talk about my first labour without crying (a mix of fear, anger, and, honestly, blanks as I was out of it at the end, everything is quite blurred). Which is quite embarrassing .
Like most of you I am not against VBAC but I don't want to end up with an EMCS after 37 h of labour again I'd rather have a planned CS. I am also angry at the post-care nurses at the hospital, who didn't believe me the first time I told them I was hemorraging, and said that my swollen back was fat (I have a phD in biology I know fat doesn't grow overnight .)
Also v. angry at one of the midwife who rolled of her eyes and mocked when I was in pain (unbearable, I was begging for an epidural). Especially know that I know that the baby was back to back (more pained) they had induced my (more pain) and I had a fribroid on teh cervix (more pain).

Has anybody booked one on the strength of this thread?! I haven't yet, but intend to.

I have, apparently I need it if I can't talk about the first birth without crying . My new MW is very nice and said she will debreif me (I changed country since so it can be in the hospital where I gave birth first time). Good luck with yours, I still feel like running away before going cry in front of someone...

Tamsin you didn't have your baby at Princess Anne in Southampton did you? It sounds very similar to my experience. I contacted them some months after the birth when I'd had chance to reflect and had thought of some ways in which the care could have been improved but their immediate response was to write and say that I'd missed the 6 month deadline for taking legal action against them.

This despite me saying that I had no intention of taking legal action as I thought taking more money out of the NHS wasn't going to help improve patient care. They have steadfastly refused to comment on my experience or my suggestions (even just to tell me that they would be unworkable for whatever reason). They were only prepared to talk on the phone and would not commit anything to paper.

Doubt they would entertain the idea of a debrief should anyone request one.

I must admit I have skimmed this (naughty).

I didn't have a formal debrief, but when I was pg with DD2 and I had the "birth choices" meeting (to help to choose between VBAC or ELCS) she asked me about the first time and I told her all about it and she listened sympathetically and gave me some reasons to do with the drugs that may have worsened pain etc. It was really therapeutic and helped me put a lot of frustration and anger behind me. It does help talking to a HCP rather than a friend for some reason - even if they say the same things Maybe that someone is taking it seriously? i don't know.

I will still never forget the midwife saying during induced labour "you obviously have a low pain threshold" but I'm not so angry about it any more.

mamaloco, well done. When are you going for the appt? We'll hold your hand and wipe your tears.

I'm 6 weeks pg with no. 2 and had a very early booking in appointment with mw. Discussed dd's birth when those questions came up and she has referred me to the consultant who will talk through the birth and the weeks leading up to it. She has also referred me to a counsellor to talk about my anxiety. Appointments aren't through yet but looking forward to both of them, hopefully this will allow me to move on and look forward to this pg.

mamaG I have set the wheels in motion and am waiting for the mw to get back to me once the hospital have released my notes.
mamaloco good for you, I'd be interested to hear how it goes for you.

yes

Whilst still in hospital post DS' CS one of the midwives came to see me and said would you like to talk through your notes? So we did.

4 months later I was approached to be part of a research study and this involved a talk through, after which further counselling was offered - although I didn't feel I needed it, so declined.

Midwife at booking appt for DD also offered to talk through with me - actually declined this again, but was given as long as I wanted to look through my notes etc.

I was offered one but didn't get what the issue was at the time so turned it down. I remember being told that my next delivery would have be by General Anth C section (Again) but to this day don't know why.

It didn't hit me what a difficult birth I had had until much later. I remember talking to DH about it years later and him mentioning that I almost needed a blood tranfussion but had NO idea.

I now realise there is a lot I don't remember or never knew about DD birth.

Unfortunately haven't got pregnant again so I guess not an issue, but still a large part of me would like to know what happened!