Is it usual for midwives to respond so negatively to a doula?

[Diege]

Told my midwife yesterday that I'd hired a doula for a planned hospital birth (midwife led unit, although I've since heard it's just a 'low risk room' . Midwife was extremely hostile when I told her, basically ridiculing me and making me feel like a silly little girl. Was very upset at the time, though held my ground, but am thinking now is this how many midwives view doulas? Was I naive in thinking they would welcome the fact that I felt supported? They've never had one at my hospital before apparently, so am wondering what to expect by way of a 'welcome' when she gets there for the birth!

your choice who you have during birth.
From a nearly midwife point of view perhaps she wonders whether you would listen to doula's advice rather than midwife's advice if things don't progress as planned.
Also I assume you want a doula because you don't think you'll get the support you want from a midwife? Maybe she fels threatened?

Thanks Disaster . Yes, I think she's picked up on the fact that during my previous births (this is no.4) I haven't had the best support from midwives. They are quite reluctant at my hospital to encourage 'active birth', even just getting off the bed etc, which is half the reason I've felt I've had to resort to a doula (which is sad in a way). She sort of backtracked towards the end and admitted that midwives were a rather 'protective' species, and that yes doulas may be seen as a 'threat'. My sister (who's also a midwife)responded in a similar way

bloody hell. Go with the doula. Ignore old fashioned, out dated, biased midwife.

I don't think mine were keen, because it meant they had to pay attention to my birth plan and not hassle me to do things I didn't want. The first one who arrived (it was a home birth) was plainly petrified at the thought of a natural birth and I think felt a bit disempowered. But you know what, that was their problem. Their feelings are not my responsibility.

How dreadful to be made to feel like that - what on earth did she say to you?

When I was on the Independent Midwives list years ago, there was a thread about doulas. One of the most experienced midwives there said that she didn't like doulas at her births as more often than not they interfered too much, questioning her decisions etc..

I've always thought that if the midwives are doing their job properly (supporting the mother, giving her informed choices etc.) there isn't a need for a doula.

I should add though, that if you feel better having a doula and it would give you a better birth experience then go for it.

They should respect your wishes.

Toodles, I think you're right. Sadly, I've been actively disencouraged from getting off the bed/wanting intermittant monitoring/having a water birth, and feel the only way I can possibly try for a less contolled birth is to have someone with me (in addition to dh) who knows what I want (I am very weak and passive when in pain ).
Theprovinciallady, the conversation started with her shaking her head the minute I started speaking, and then 'Oh diege, what have you gone and done that for', before saying what a waste it was of my time/money, and berating me for not 'knowing better'. I replied by saying that, at worst, my experinence would be no different to what it would have been without a doula, but at best I would feel supported and empowered etc, which I wasn't getting from past experiences where the midwfe was in only every 20 mins to check print out from monitor before leaving again. Probably my hormones, but I did feel really deflated after feeling quite euphoric after meeting with my doula last week and had a little sob

put a request to change midwives to the Supervisor of Midwives. how utterly unprofessional. I have done this in the past. If you would like a template letter let me know.

No that's not hormones, that's because you were massively patronised I think it proves how useful a doula will be to you and you have made a very rational decision, especially given your experience before.

good post from ProvincialLady.

I think that their reaction just goes to show how useful a doula might be to you.

I have hired an IM and if I decide to go to hospital she will come in with me and act as doula. My IM told me she sometimes gets funny looks from hospital midwives but that since her focus is the mother and not their feelings it is irrelevant. I expect your doula will feel the same way.

Why would a duola be any more threatening to a midwife as your birth partner than say, your own mother, or a friend who had had children too? Or would some midwives find them threatening too (mine didn't, the midwife who delivered DS thought it was fab and said she was sure if more women had a women as their birth partner they would find the whole thing a lot less stressful)?

I know most people have their husbands as birth partners, but I wanted to be surrounded by people who had a clue, so my mum was the obvious choice. If she hadn't been up to it, or hadn't been around, I'd have hired a duola too.

Oh look, I've repeated TPL. But that's only because she is right.

Hmmm.

In my experience some midwives are 'anti-doula' because they are defensive about their practice.

They want to give women emotional support and provide woman-centred care, but they are so bound up with the protocol of the hospital, overburdened by having too many people to care for, and tied up with writing detailed notes, that all but the most capable and experienced struggle to do this.

In my experience most midwives are providing medically focused care, except those that are working in birth centres with a strong ethos of physiological birth.

If anyone quibbles with your decision again refer them to the Cochrane review of the benefits of continuous care in labour which says:

in general, continuous intrapartum support was associated with greater benefits when the provider was not a member of the hospital staff

And if continue to quibble then tell them to fuck off.

(rest of the summary below)

Sixteen trials involving 13,391 women met inclusion criteria and provided usable outcome data. Primary comparison: women who had continuous intrapartum support were likely to have a slightly shorter labour, were more likely to have a spontaneous vaginal birth and less likely to have intrapartum analgesia or to report dissatisfaction with their childbirth experiences. Subgroup analyses: in general, continuous intrapartum support was associated with greater benefits when the provider was not a member of the hospital staff, when it began early in labour and in settings in which epidural analgesia was not routinely available.

Authors' conclusions

If that's a midwife you could end up with, then definitely keep your doula.

It's a horrible feeling not having your wishes respected. My last birth I ended up feeling quite deflated with all the commmunity midwives I'd met in Telford. I was 42+2 when I finally went into labour but had to be transferred to hospital because baby passed meconium. An idea of a hospital birth scared me senseless (2 previous successful homebirths) but in the end it was the best thing that happened as, as I was on the Consultant Unit (Shrewsbury)I had one to one care with 2 midwives (shift change) who were the nicest midwives you could meet. As it turned out the transfer was unnecessary as baby was never in distress for one second but I could have ended up with a homebirth with a midwife that I wasn't comfortable with in my own home. With that scenario I would have wanted a doula too.

It is important to have your wishes respected, but I always think, that if the midwife is telling a mother that things are not going as planned and some intervention is needed that mother did not want, whether the doula is qualified enough to know whether the midwife is being professional and genuinely doing what is best for mother, or just looking out for her own interests (as in some time saving procedure to speed up labour unnecessarily).

Thank you all so much for your supportive messages. It really means a lot. I was wondering if I was being overly sensitive which isn't like me. There's a very small chance that said mw will be the one at my labour - if so I think I'll take my doula's offer of fairy lights and electric candles on just to piss her off . This midwife was also quite negative about my wishes to give bf a go again (did it successfully with dd1 for 6 months exclusively, then bottle fed dds 2& 3 for what I'll admit were reasons of convenience) - very odd!!

This midwife is a loon regarding the bf issue

This midwife was also quite negative about my wishes to give bf a go again.

Can you ask that this midwife is not present at your birth? She sounds horrendous. Every one of your posts about her gets worse. Definitely stick with your doula and make sure you inform yourself about bf (if you need to) - you've done it before so why wouldn't you be able to bf new baby? What a shocking attitude about bf.

Good luck to you.

Thank you for your kind words Toodles
The conclusion I've reached about the mw is that she's really not very happy in her job - friends have also received the same treatment, and have even changed surgeries to avoid her.
Will have a look through some of the bf threads on here to refresh on the bf-ing basics. Thanks again

I agree with toodles here.

your MW is there to nurture you and when your baby arrives your baby too not to make you feel like this!

I changed MW last year when I had been sent for a scan because we weren't sure at what stage I was at at all she refused to fill in the form and told me if I was so desperate to know EDD then I should go private or book a section
I told her the GP had merely requested a dating scan as soon as an appointment became available so we could book my HB
she then told me "we don't do HB's" after I finished cackling I informed her I'd not let her deliver a pizza let alone a baby and rang to changed MW's

I'm so sad to see MW's treating the women they care for like veg or something look at it weigh it lob it in a bag we are each human beings with thoughts and feelings

they have no right go with your doula not just for the birth but for afterwards too
with BF it just takes some patience but she can help with that too and she clearly allows you to discuss and make some choices

Since they have never had one at your hospital, perhaps they are not fully informed of what a doula will be doing at your birth? She may by biased by hearing stories from other midwives. Do you know if she has ever worked with a doula herself?

If you aren't comfortable with her stance on the matter, as well as that of breastfeeding, certainly look into making a change.

Sparkingsarah, I love the line about not fit to deliver a pizza . Sounds like you had a pretty horrendous experinence there, and good for you on taking things into your own hands. I have deliberately arranged the rest of my appointments with the other midwife at our practice - have just found out a different one is there every other week. I've actually seen her once before with a past pregnancy and I liked the way she didn't whip out the tape measure (always worries me that)and also listens to hb with pinard which I much prefer.
Doulac, no, she has never worked with a doula. She told me with some satisfaction that an Independent midwife turned up once after transferring from hb with labouring woman to hospital, and that the IM couldn't do anything - something to do with contracts etc.. I am quite surprised that in such a large hospital they have never had a doula present at any birth, and as you and others rightly say, inadvertantly they have convinved me even more that I'm making the right decision.

i am , as you know, diege, a doula. i have made it my business to go to the hospital, get involved and get to know the MWs and various other bods. they know my ethos and that i am part of the team when i am in there.

i think if a MW has worked alongside a doula she has not clicked with, or the doula has perhaps overstepped a mark, or she has not worked with any, she might have negative pre conceptions..

has your doula worked there frequently.. is she a known or unknown quantity?

would it be a good idea for your doula to perhaps meet with the Head of midwifery if possible and have a chat about her role and what she will and won;t be doing

also sounds like you had a MW with a bit of a crappy attitude.which does not help

I've had a doula for two of my births and she's always been made welcome by the midwives (at two different hospitals)

Hi Lulu! No, she hasn't worked at the hospital where I'll be going (they've never had a doula there) - several around the N.W but not this particular one. She's from south of england origninally and from refs was always thought of very highly in the hopsitals there. Excellent idea about her getting in touch with head of midwifery beforehand just to talk things through. Am umming and ahhing about home birth tbh (have been all along) but dh a bit reluctant and concerns about other dds being there etc, so low-risk rooms with a doula for some sort of continuous support a compromise...

i did a little introductory talk about myself at one of teh maternity service liasion committee meetings.. anyone can go as an interested party/user rep.

i explained about my own two very different births, what had motivated me to become a doula, how i saw my role and how much i hoped to be part of the team, rather than an outsider.

i genuinely believe that being involved in the maternity committees has made my role easier.. i am not an unknown quantity. i also do stuff that makes stuff easier, i keep my clients thigns tidy, i carry bags, i can mop up any , ahem, leakages off the floor

i would really think that it would be a benefit to get to know the HoM and maybe one or two others before your labour

if you are considering a home birth , i would go for it, you can always transfer in, but if you get to hospital, if you don;t want to be there, transferring back home is really exceptionally difficult once labour is underway

x