Is it usual for midwives to respond so negatively to a doula?

[Diege]

Told my midwife yesterday that I'd hired a doula for a planned hospital birth (midwife led unit, although I've since heard it's just a 'low risk room' . Midwife was extremely hostile when I told her, basically ridiculing me and making me feel like a silly little girl. Was very upset at the time, though held my ground, but am thinking now is this how many midwives view doulas? Was I naive in thinking they would welcome the fact that I felt supported? They've never had one at my hospital before apparently, so am wondering what to expect by way of a 'welcome' when she gets there for the birth!

I'd consider a doula if I had another baby (am not planning one!) because there were not enough midwives at my hospital. The midwife who delivered my DD was great at her job. Unfortunatly she had far too many patients so couldn't care for me properly and my DD was in unnecessary danger.

Will def suggest it to her Lulu - makes sense for all concerned, esp as she has only been in the area a relatively short while and will no doubt be working in this particular hospital again.HB is something that may well happen, esp now I've heard MLU at hospital is no-more. Am going on a tour in a few weeks to see the 'low-risk rooms'
Crokky, there is also a massive midwife shortage at my hospital, hence the investigations into a doula/hb. Not of course that a doula can replace a medically qualified person, more that I need (for me) to be able to build up trust with my birth partner(s), rather than seeing them disappear out of the door every 20 mins or so. If only dh was a bit more 'active' things would be ok..as it is he's got to pg.4 of my active birth book and seems to be making no progress!

I had a doula for DS3's labour and birth. MW's were absolutely fine about it - even before they knew I had a doula on her way (I didn't think I was actually in labour so had called my doula to tell her I'd let her know what was happening ) they followed ny birth plan and the listened to me (through her).

I'm just blunt Diege and I was very unhappy with my care I will not be treated improperly - I am a human being.

regarding your children at the birth - if it helps my DD was present at my HB.
I had a very happy great HB - I knew there was no way I was going anywhere it felt right to stop at home and I later agreed iwth good MW that so long as I felt safe I could hang from tree tops if I so wished!

truthfully my main concerns were I didn't want to scare her by screaming the place down
I didn't want her to see anything going possibly awry and I was concerened she'd be traumatised forever by the sight of a birth

I had just moved here so I didn't have anyone to trust or even just ask to mind her
so we agreed that she'd stay and then MW 2 would occupy her or DH depending on what was doing.

when the time came I went into labour in the evening tld DH - he sorted dinner out as normal and we all sat and ate
I ran a bath I had a quick rinse I told DD that I was very tired and she was to go to bed early - she trundled off
DH prepared the bed and cleared pathways I made sure my bags were sorted packed etc and started ironing ( DON'T ASK!!)
by now it was 10 pm DH started rubbing my back and making me comfy 11 pm we rang labour ward had a chat with on duty MW
she got on call to ring by 11;30 I was ready to go Simon ( on call MW) rang me at midnight said he'd nip over - lived one street away!
waters went so we rang back and Simon decided ambling over for a prod wasn't going to be happening and got in the car instead
00;29 SImon rings the doorbell hears me muttering oh fucking shittity fuck shit says hi I'm SImon and leans over to catch my son
at 00:32

please note ......
child has slept through the lot|!!!!!!!!!!!
at 2 am we woke her up to say well done you're a sister! hahah!!
by 4 we were all fast asleep

That sounds like a perfect HB Sparklingsarah . Having 3 dds already, I'm not sure we could be as organised! I'm only 33 weeks, so have plenty of time to think through options. Not sure why I'm like this this time - maybe because it's my last!

LuLu anyone can be a part of maternity liasons? in any hospital? so i can invite myself along? would love to do this to my local; hosp because i've asked to do so in the past but have never been invited.

Hi there - love the story about Simon, SparklngSarah!

I have a homebirth with DS2 in November. It wasn't planned, since I had bad bleed with DS1 and was under Consultant Care for DS2 (at least that's what I was told, I actually never met the man!!).

I was told (and agreed reluctantly to) to come in to hospital when in labour, and to be 'actively managed' ie attached to drips just in case it happened again.

Well, my son had other ideas!! . I went into labour at 7.40, so DH took DS1 to before-school club, expecting me to be hours yet. (First was 16 hour labour). When DH got back, I was on all fours in the shower trying not to push!!

I ended up giving birth on the sitting room floor at 10am, complete with 3 midwives, 2 paramedics and a very scared-looking husband!! Although there was some bleeding, the midwifes sorted it all out and I didn't need to go to hospital. 1 hour later the midwife was getting my breakfast and 2 hours later me and DS2 were in bed asleep whilst DH was tidying up.

All that fuss about risks, and he was fine.

Not that I'm in any way suggesting you ignore medical advice (if there is a reason to be in hospital you should be), just pointing out that a homebirth with a good midwife or 3 can still be safe and oh my god was it better than hospital!

(Weirdly, one of the main things I remember about the birth was noticing the dust under the settee whilst I was pushing him out?!)

Since your DH is not getting very far with reading Active Birth. Can I suggest you buy "the Business of Being Born" and you two take an hour to watch it together?

DH never did anything to prepare for the birth sno1 or 2. We watched this dvd together a couple weeks before I was due and it focused him on the HB of dd2.

It turns out that he was the only other adult at the birth of dd2 and he says he would do it all over again.

Hi KIRSTY, does sound a good experience and lol at dust under sofa . No reason for me (medically) to go to hosp - more social reasons - other children geeting scared, fear of neighbours banging on the wall (though both slighly deaf pensioners so should be ok on that count), worries about keeping house in a reasonable state etc etc, and not too keen dh..(safety thing which I know is unfounded..)
FOXY, do you know I can buy a copy of the dvd you mention? I've heard that it is excellent, but can only find non-uk dvd compatible ones on Amazon. Would def have more of an impact on dh I think that the books!

you cna buy it direct from the states and get it compatible with UK dvds.

here i have a copy ordered from here.

Excellent, many thanks! Will get dh's credit card out; it's the least he can do

I had a fantastic doula ay DD's birth. The community MW asked what exactly her job title was. I got the impression they had'nt come across one before! I would'nt have had such a great birth experience without my doula and the MW who actually attended DD birth seemed pleased she was there! Good luck!

I'm a doula and so far have only ever had an issue with one mw. He smiled when he saw me and asked me who I was. I smiled back and said I was the doula. He asked how many births I'd attended and I replied 50 (which it was at that time... I've doubled that now). He bristled and said he needed to do 50 to qualify and was up to about 220 births. I smiled and got on with supporting my client. She had had an epidural by the time I arrived and he was guiding her pushing. He looked at the computer screen and shouted at her for not following his counting. Then the shift changed, a lovely mw came in but couldn't restore her confidence in her ability to birth the baby, cue forceps delivery.

I'm glad I was with her because I was able to stop her panicking with it all and to talk gently to her throughout. I was also there to help her with breastfeeding in the subsequent days after the birth.

Apart from him, I have never had a problem with a mw. In fact many of them take my details to pass on to others. This includes MWLUs and Community MWs.

I'm sorry that this mw has made you feel the way that you do and can only suggest that you speak/write to the Head of Midwifery and say that you do not wish her to be in attendance, oh and keep your doula. She'll be more than worth her weight in gold.

Here's to a straightforward birth.

Thank you NBM and MARS - it's good to hear such positive experiences. I keep on dobting myself and thinking why am I making such a fuss, but know in my heart that having a doula with me with give me the best chance of having the type of birth I want.
MARS, if I write to SOM asking for the midwife I've been seeing not to be in attendance, will she get to know that I have requested this??

lulu, great idea to introduce yourself to the maternity liaison and midwives. What happens if you disagree with a course of action recommended by a midwife eg epi or forceps etc. Or you don't like the way they expect your client to push. How do you get your/your client's point across without seeming to overstep the mark?

When your MW sees what a wonderful asset your doula is to the support you will have, she will likely change her opinion. I think often times that is the concern midwives have. They imagine the doula will take over, try to persuade the family to dismiss the midwife's suggestions, generally get in the way and potentially cause a problem for mother and/or baby.

Many don't truly know the role of a doula simply because they have not experienced one at a birth. I once had a mother ask her OB if she could have a doula at her birth and he said yes, she could have her son there.... He didn't know what a doula was and thought she was asking if she could have her son called "Adoula" with her!

A doula's role is to make sure the mother and partner know what to expect, ways to be more comfortable, how they might help the labour progress, etc.. They offer suggestions for comfort to both the mother and partner....supporting both of them physically and emotionally. They make sure the family understands what is being discussed, what their options might be, what questions to ask. They are the advocate for the family...even when the family may be wanting to birth in a way the doula may not "agree" with, the doula's role is to support that family and their goals for birth whenever possible.

If they don't agree with a suggestion from the midwife, or if it goes against what the family was hoping for, the doula will make sure the family knows about potential risks, benefits, why it is being suggested, and possible alternatives to try first.

There is an art to suggesting alternatives or asking about alternatives that can be tried first without appearing to be second guessing the midwife. The doula will also let the family know when an intervention being suggested truly is in their best interest.

Unless there is a true medical situation that would prohibit something, and in the vast majority of births there isn't....everything is an option.

Most MWs find having a doula present actually frees them up and makes their job easier. Some doulas will have clients referred to them by midwives who have worked with them before.

I must admit that even my ususally supportive mw was negative about me having a doula with this birth.
Quite frankly dh took offence to the mw's comments and positively encouraged me loads after that that we should def have doula and perhaps I should become one too..lol

LOl Doulac @ 'adoula' - speak volumes . Hopefully on the day the mw will feel supported and not at all threatened. My doula is very experienced and says she has had a range of reponses. Am seeing her in a few weeks so will fill in on that mw appointment and suggest she gets in touch with sop to introduce herself etc..
MRSLEROY, lol at your dh...I think mine has gone the other way and started questionning the whole thing again. For me though, it's just made me more determined to keep her. My biggest fear now is having to have an epidural and feeling I've wasted the doula's time (and made my mw very smug) although I know rationally that if that's what happens at least I'll know I've given all the alternatives a go first and my doula won't judge!

Diege if you find you want/need an epidural you won't have wasted your doula's time. She will be there to support you through your decisions and through the labour and birth.

"If they don't agree with a suggestion from the midwife ..."

Can I ask a question about this? What training do doulas have? As far as I was aware they don't have any medical training at all. How far is a doula willing to disagree with a midwife's suggestion - are we talking about comfort issues here or medical interventions? I would be extremely worried if a woman was disregarding her midwife's opinion in preference to the opinion of an untrained layperson.

What accountability do doula's have? How are they regulated? Do they carry any kind of indemnity/liability insurance? If you have a bad experience with a doula who do you complain to - do they have any 'professional' oversight?

It does worry me when I see people asking questions on here addressed to a midwife or doula ... as if they the same thing.

doulas do have training, though clearly not to MW level or close. their roleis not that either though. IME (as someone who has used one) the not agreeing is likely to be based on discussions with Mum before birth, My doula asked what I wanted from the birth and was there toadvocate for that, so any disagreement would ahve been efectively from me but using her voice becasue I was, at that time, rather busy IYSWIM.

There are also other times a Doula can not agree for example she interrupted the otherwise ocupied MW during my labour to point out the baby was crowning (ME said I'd have a few minutes LOL), MW (only one ahd amde it in time) had her back to me and was chatting to DH.

Someone who operates as a Doula in a pseudo MW role is I think misunderstanding the role, it's about being an extensio0n of Mum, the role a sister might have tkaen in older societies, the voice for the labouring woman. At elast that is what mine was to me; the birthing safety etc was down to MW ut the Doula was thre to understand me and my oddities, the little tings in my life no MW can deal with.

But there is a lt of misunderstanding; a MW in hospital railed at me for having funding from the NHS for a Doula..... er pardon?private all the way love PMSL.

My doula was with no 4, primarily she was there to support me in case I transferred from home and DH wasn't there ( needed at home with SN children). the hospitalMW's were a bvit but the ones that delivered DS had no issues at all and she was very skilled at interveining only when needed and 'disappearing'when not.

'(Weirdly, one of the main things I remember about the birth was noticing the dust under the settee whilst I was pushing him out?!) '

I went into panic about the state of my food cupboards and would ony allow Dh in , I amde him get the Doula teabags PMSL

sadminster Doulas who are with Doula UK undergo assessment and training and you'll see our complaints procedure is here. We also carry insurance and have CRB checks etc.

Sorry for the brief reply. Running out to do school rush!

Diege - I had a doula at my DS2's birth and she was lovely (been doulaing for over 10 years, like a grandmotherly presence - v reassuring while sitting back and just letting me get on with things). The senior midwife at the birth centre I gave birth in had worked with her before and got on fine with her - however the junior midwife clashed quite badly with her (though as I was too busy pushing the baby out I really didnt notice at the time, DH did though); I suspect she felt a little threatened by her as she was a lovely but quite junior midwife. Our doula made sure my birth preferences were respected (such as keeping monitoring to a minimum - though she had to argue with the junior midwife on this apparently) and as a result I had the birth I really wanted with DS2 as opposed to the absolute nightmare birth I had with DS1 so I think that having a doula is a great thing - just be prepreared to ignore any clash between the doula and the midwives...