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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

internal examinations-what exactly is involed?

33 replies

sanita · 27/12/2008 02:57

do mw use only couple of fingers or they actually put inside whole hand? just want to know what to expect...thanks for all advice!!!

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NatalieJaneIsPregnantAgain · 27/12/2008 03:43

ime it depends what the examination is for. i have never been aware of them using more than 2 fingers personally, but i know that sometimes they have to use their whole hand.

Tangle · 27/12/2008 10:41

Its worth remembering that whether or not you accept internal exams, or how many you have is not up to the hospital or the MW - it's your choice. You can also tell whoever is doing the examination to stop at any point (some women don't notice them, some find them uncomfortable, a few find them extremely painful) - Mary Cronk recommends practicing saying "Stop that AT ONCE" in a very stern tone to the mirror before you go in, just in case...

juuule · 27/12/2008 10:59

Do they really have to use their whole hand for some internals? For what type of thing?

I've had 9 children and can't recall ever having an internal that involved more than 2 fingers.

NatalieJaneIsPregnantAgain · 27/12/2008 12:42

i know when i booked my homebirth for ds2, the mw warned me that if we ended up with a cord prolapse then there would be a need for an ambulance and someone with their hnd up thereholding the babies head.

sorry for typing, crap keyboard.

foxytocin · 27/12/2008 12:50

you can tell them you do not want any internals as you feel happy not to have one.

also you do not want to have an internal if just all they will know is 'how much your cervix has dilated' as that has no bearing on how much longer you will actually be in labour.

fwiw, last pg and delivery I had no internals at all and was v. happy with that state of affairs. the idea of even 2 fingers is off putting to me.

EachPeachPearMum · 27/12/2008 12:57

Can you insist on no internals even if you have to be constantly monitored? I am VBACing in Jan, and have heart cond- they will be watching me very closely, and it's the internals that are the mental block to this for me

SnowOfHands · 27/12/2008 13:04

I had 2 internals whilst still at home (attempted homebirth) and they were fine. Two fingers, gentle, couldn't feel anything.

It all went a bit pear-shaped (dd stuck, hours of pushing) and so I transferred into hospital. The obstetrician had to put his whole hand in there to feel around and check what was happening. It was painful. Nothing compared to the attempted manual rotation an hour later when a cons had both hands inside me and was tugging forcibly trying to shift her (didn't work).

foxytocin · 27/12/2008 13:12

i don't have an answer eachpeach but if i were you, i would look for a vbac support yahoo group and join the ukmidwifery one and ask qs there.

EachPeachPearMum · 27/12/2008 15:30

Thanks foxy.

treedelivery · 27/12/2008 17:04

Hello - quick run down of the why's and how's, but off top of my head so might be bit confusing, sorry!

Vaginal examinations are 2 fingers. There would be no point putting anymore in, as the physiology of the pelvis is such you couldn't do anything usefull with your 3rd and 4th finger. They take anywhere from 10 seconds to a couple of mins.

For induction process/?onset of labour/?progress in labour assessment/?ruptured membranes, the mw will use the 2 finger tips to feel the cervix, how many cms it's open, how thick and stretchy it is, and something called effacement which is the drawing up of the main body of the cervix into the lower segment of the uterus.
Then the assessment will look at the baby in relation to the cervix, how well the head is applied to the cervix, and if there are lines on the baby's head that help us understand the lie of the baby, and also for swelling[caput] and moulding of the skull. Also feel for membranes inact or rupures, if bulging or tight. The examiner will give an overall opinion of the station of the head in the pelvis - thats is, how low it is in relation to your spines, which we have a mental image of location-wise.

These internals would be suggested to help you decide on what and when to have pain relief, to assess if you are OK to start pushing if the urge is building and building and there is no head visable, if the baby is looking stressed [a stresssed baby at 3cm can be an entirely different management issue to a stressed baby at fully dilated for example], if you request as you wish to know the labour is working and how it's going [like when people come in to delivery suite wondering if they are in labour] - and also as a 'routine', done about 4 hourly to pinpoint lack of progress in labour and chart the 'vibe' for your labour so staff can identify changes.

If a Dr is examining for a forceps delivery, and applting forceps - they will still use their 2 fingers, but may insert deeper as the cervix is gone, so they can reach round the head more - and they need to be 100% certain of the baby's position before putting on any instrument. If the lines on the head are difficult to read due to molding or the head is tilted or something, they can check for the ridges over the eyes, ears and other land marks to satisfy themselves as to position. This is more specialised management and not everyone wishes to know the ins and outs of it all!

What snow describes [I imagine] is the dr using their hands as the forceps [put your hands around the back of your head cupping your skull, fingers together and you get the idea] to try and do some advanced and very specific steering of the head through the bony pelvis. So more of a delivery mode rather than an assessment tool iuswim.

They are done [as is everything] with your consent. The MW may say 'I'm going to examine you' which does not imply choice, but if you say no then that is that in fact.

In terms of discomfort and pain - well, that varies so so much. Because of when they are done, where the cervix is, how it is tilted, if you are contracting, if you are not, what pain relief you have on board and so on. Add to that the impact of our mental state, degree to which they bother us, if we gel with the person examining, how safe we feel - and it's very unpredictable.

Entonox can help some through examinations, as its hard to tense your muscles when your high! others would hate that as they need to feel in control and 'there'. They generally don't hurt at all with epidurals.

My general advice - try try try not to squeeze your bum muscles. You'll feel more of the exam if you do [think of sex and gripping...well you get the idea]. If you are tense about them, it's often a nonsense to 'try to relax' - if they freak you they freak you - but try squeeze your toes or push your tounge into roof of your mouth to relieve the tension.

EachPeach - women do labour without examinations, through their choice and the lack of actual clinical need. In your situation it's probably worth discussing this with the consultant prior to the Vbac. The big big thing with Vbac is progress, they'll want to see that the body is responding to the contractions you are having. If the cervix is not responding - this can be the body's way of saying 'this baby doesn't fit' or 'not today thank you'. Missing that message when there is a uterine scar to consider could lead to a weakening of the uterus [it thins as the muscles struggle to push the baby through] and thats the big worry with any Vbac.
Maybe a plan of when the internals might take place would help you? A predictable pattern so you are ready for them? One for a senior body who knows your story. Am sorry they are a problem though.

Do apologise for such a long posting - but I find that alot of the stuff on the pregnancy type websites is way to simplistic. Perhaps I have gone to far other way!!

treedelivery · 27/12/2008 17:05

Longest post on mumsnet award?

blueshoes · 27/12/2008 18:07

sanita, what are you concerned about? I noticed this is your first post.

treedelivery · 27/12/2008 18:08

Oh thank Lord thought I had killed the thread!

sanita · 27/12/2008 19:22

ladies, thank you so much for response...its my first one...2 months 2 go, just want to know what i can expect-in best and in worst case..feel quite nervous...have been watching some videos and just want to cry when I see how women suffer...
snow...jesus-they must have given u some pain numbing like epidural? that sounds so barbaric, using 2 hands...to be honest, I can't comprehend how someone could fit even one hand in...
treedelivery-thank you for detailed explanation, i think I can handle 2 fingers

OP posts:
blueshoes · 27/12/2008 19:36

sanita, what sort of videos have you been watching?

I am somewhat surprised you are more concerned about the internals than the giving birth itself. Any particular reason why besides watching videos ...

Hther · 27/12/2008 19:38

have you considered home birth? most intervention i've had is ARM and sweeps

EachPeachPearMum · 27/12/2008 19:44

Ah Tree- this is the problem- no-one so far has discussed with us! Last labour was completely glossed over by one consultant saying- 'Hmm well- yes, that memebr of staff has since left us, so no point in revisiting really'

Last labour (spontaneous) (dd) was 25 hours or so- I was 9cm but adrenaline kicked in, and I went back to 2cm, also she was OP which they didn't find out until 23 hours (4th m/w by that point!
They went to emcs when she started to get into distress. (I had g&A all night and then epidural after around 18/19 hours, that took the edge off contractions, but didn't actually stop the pain.
The internals were agony tbh, and I just cannot face those again, though tbh, the whole idea of labour full stop is not a happy one for me- DD is almost 3- it has taken us a long time to decide to have another child, mainly I think due to traumatic labour/birth.
I was shaking uncontrollably throughout my emcs- mainly sue to adrenaline in me. Cried throughout too.

sanita · 27/12/2008 19:53

As this is my first time, i would rather go to hospital...just in case i think, since dunno really how I will be...
i am concerned about everything...videos I saw on you tube, my birth story, etc...
water birth sounds really good-and I am total water lover...

OP posts:
treedelivery · 27/12/2008 19:58

Back to the consultant. For sure. You could even contact his/her secretary through switch board and ask if it's possible to have a meeting rather than clinic appointment. Or at least confirm the consultant is expected at your clinic appt.

Also sometimes helpfull to write a letter detailing your concerns, send it in and then the consultant is not coming into consultation blind. Get it sorted, get some plans in place and some explanations for whats happened peviously. Maybe that will help this experience be a bit less traumatic for you.

I guess worse case scenario and deaf ears consultant - change consultant. It does happen.

Coldtits · 27/12/2008 20:04

I had internals with both my boys, barely noticed them. They don't hurt, and they aren't embarrassing (to ME that is)

EachPeachPearMum · 28/12/2008 01:47

Sorry- Tree- was that to Sanita or me?

treedelivery · 28/12/2008 21:19

To u EachPeach, what do you think of my ideas? I'm getting quite militant in my old midwifery age!

Lulumamaloveslatkes · 28/12/2008 21:23

i think that was a great and informative post, and really useful, treedelivery

Lulumamaloveslatkes · 28/12/2008 21:23

i think that was a great and informative post, and really useful, treedelivery

TheYearOfTheCat · 28/12/2008 21:56

Great post tree.

For both my births, the internals were excruciating - worse than the birth itself (well almost) - but possibly because at that stage I had no pain relief. If I was doing it again, I would insist on gas & air before they started.

Tree - I didn't know you could refuse an internal.