have you forgotten the pain?

[skerriesmum]

Can hardly believe my ds is 2 today! Snuggling him this morning I thought back to the first time I ever held him and how wonderful that was, but also how most of that was just the pure relief that the birth was over! I do want more children sometime but I will never be one of those women who say "sure it hurts but you forget once you want another". I will never forget! What do you all think? (BTW birth fairly routine, needed ventouse but not overly long.)

[bobbybob]

I haven't forgotten, but then I can't remember properly either.

[aloha]

I had a painless c-section for ds (placenta praevia) and am having another section on Monday (elective, maternal request). I read this stuff, about women hallucinating, wanting to die, have post-traumatic stress and flashbacks and cannot believe anyone would be so callous (even inadvertently callous) as to say 'stop moaning'. Would you say that to torture victims? Or to a fireman who was having PSTD? I really am quite shocked by that.

[karaj]

I don't know whether this was meant to be a compliment, but after enduring 8 hours of labour at home with a TENS machine attached to my back, on my arrival at the birth centre where I had my DS about 7 months ago, the first thing the midwife said was "God, you really do have a very high threshhold for pain".

Actually, 7 month on, I remember alot more about the discomfort after the birth, although I didn't have any tearing or stiches, because I had very serious pelvic pain afterwards. I found it really, really difficult to BF as I couldn't find a position comfortable enough to hold my boy while BF. Sitting and walking caused enormous pain. Baby and I eventually got used to BF on the bed. This is our favourite position to this day ! Even when I visit friends, we go and lie down on in one of the bedrooms for a feed .

[bubble99]

I'm probably in a minority but I get really pd off with the 'competitive labour' cp . Like the Monty Python sketch where the wealthy yorkshiremen are competing as to how deprived their childhoods were, I seem to come across the same thing with labours "Oh I didn't even look at the gas and air - ripped from ae to elbow but I didn't have Pethidine"

Why? Am I missing something? I just don't understand why, with modern pharmacology we wish to experience pain. Since time began women have used any form of pain relief they could get hold of - Coca leaves, natural hallucinogens etc. I'm sure they would be totally bemused by our attitudes to analgesia today. Endorphins? My arse!

[garbo]

It depends on the birth doesn't it. I haven't forgotten the awful birth of my dd in March 2002, I could hardly face getting pregnant again because of it. Yet I have already forgotten the pain of my delivering my ds 6 days ago, in the birthing pool. I'd been terrified about giving birth for weeks, reading articles on the net at all hours of the day and night about delivery etc, dissolving into tears at the thought of it. I can hardly believe I am sitting here now (rather uncomfortably I must say, hard chair!) thinking the whole thing was rather wonderful. And I'm not the natural/earth mother type, I had gone in fully expecting to have an epidural!

[jibberjabber]

This is a strange one for me as I had to have an emmergency C Section with DS, although got to 9.5 cms which was disappointing - having heard so many birth stories I wish we'd had a crystal ball so that I could just have had a CS early on - I was knackered!

Part of me wants to go through the pain of labour again just to experience it, does that make sense? Then I remember I didn't like it very much apart from the gas and air - yummmm. Then when I think back to my experience, yes I was disappointed with having a CS at the time but it's because I felt like such a failure that my body could deliver 'properly'. Know I won't feel that way next time, if it comes to that.

[morocco]

I'm sure I've totally forgotten the actual pain but I do remember my toes curling with each contraction and thinking 'oh so that's where the phrase comes from',I clearly remember the point where I wanted to go to the hospital for an epidural as this idea of no pain relief was obviously a pile of but once I actaully got there I seemed to calm down a bit and it doesn't seem too bad now I think about it. What makes me think we are designed to forget it (and obviously reading some of these stories this is not true for us all) is that quite clearly the worst parts for me were the afterbirth, stitching and prodding which went on for hours and was extremely painful and then the appalling cramps for hours afterwards which I was totally not expecting to hurt so much. the last hour or so of labour was a different kind of pain that seemed more bearable.
My c section was a million times more painful btw (from about 30 minutes after the op for the next week)- I wish I'd had the drugs aloha et al must have been on because mine were a pile of cack in comparison

[motherinferior]

Thank you, Bubble.

I did, in fact, decide to have my second baby at home, which meant no access to an epidural. But I'm bloody glad they exist.

[Amanda3266]

Absolutely not (well the memory may be a bit hazy ). But the night before DS birth I was in AGONY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Spent the whole night on the bog and in the bath. Did all those things I'd advised woimen to do as a midwife - and do you know what - they didn't make a sod of difference - I was still in agony.

I was most pissed off when they came around the next day and said "Oh well - I can just get a fingertip into your cervix"
Me: What after all that sodding pain"
Ob: Well we could break your waters but only if we stick in an epidural and put your legs in stirrups first.
Me: What time can I have a section?

Forget the pain - not bloody likely.

But "the pain" is now 2 and the most gorgeous, cuddly, handsome, wonderful, marvellous, magical, amazing, edible, huggable, snuggable, kissable and loveable little toddler.

As you can see I have it bad.

Mandy

[bubble99]

LOL Mandy at your wise words of clinical advice coming back to haunt you when you were lying in the bath with a cervix of steel
I just can't fathom when a drug/intervention free birth became somehow more of an 'achievement'
My SIL had her first baby privately, she's an educated articulate woman, had joined the NCT and attended all the classes etc.
At some point during her preganancy she became convinced that she should not be induced, that even a sweep was not necessary and that her body would 'know what to do'. I am not a MW but I am a nurse and I kept gently reminding her that all pregnancies are different and that intervention/induction may be required for her and the baby's safety. She was completely evangelical about non intervention and I was very concerned.
She went overdue by 17 days, refused induction and as a result the consultant refused to be responsible for her care and discharged her. He later told my BIL that in over 30 years of practice he had never had to do this before. Another consultant took over her care and advised her that if she did not agree to be induced her baby would very likely be stillborn. She ended up on a trolley outside an operating theatre in floods of tears because, wait for it - she hadn't had a natural delivery. WTF is this all about? I am incensed that women are being sold this crap.

[bloss]

Message withdrawn

[rogan2001]

I had a painfree c section, I think the most painfull part is when you get home and survive on 4 hours sleep a night for the next 2 weeks. That was unforgetable pain.

[bellababe]

It's funny, I think that forgetting the pain is nature's way of telling us it's ok to have more. with my first two, it was painful, but i forgot it, still have, but with ds2, who was 8lb15, not enormous I know but bigger by quite a bit than the other two, I screamed the hospital down and knew, just knew, that I couldnt' go through that again. I ripped from a to e, as one of you so aptly put it - and actually the worst thing was that I had a thing - not sure what it's called - in my hand in case I need a drip later, as I had had to have my placenta manually removed first time. So that was in my left hand, and I think it must have been put in really badly as I couldn't move my hand or my wrist AT ALL as it was so painful, and was clutching the gas and air for dear life in my right hand. I know that making a noise doesn't help but somehow it made me feel just a little better to know that everyone else knew how bad it was. I remember at one point a midwife walked past and called in was everything alright in there?! Nope, never again. never.

[PotPourri]

Bellababe. I also had that drip thing in my arm that caused me no end of pain as it was in my hand and the huge long needle (shiver) went right up over my wrist so i couldn't move my hand at all without a stabbing (literally) pain.

I went in on the Monday to be induced and the baby was born on Thursday morning. Had contractions from the first prostin but despite two more loads, and waters being broken manually, it took the mega hormone drip to get the cervix open and DD out. I guess she was just too comfy! I couldn't have epi or spinal or any interventions due to low platelets (only found this out whilst in established labour). Only had G&A and then pethidine while I waited for the emergency CC under General that I was finally going to have. Then hey presto, my body decided it would join the fun after all and I had that unforgettable urge to push, midwives were running around like headless chickens and the rest is a blur. Actually, the most traumatic thing for me was the indignity of delivering more than a baby (i.e. pooing). DH said I just could not get over myself even in the throse of labour, and just kept saying I was soooo sorry, and so embarassed etc.

I would say it took about 24 hours before I realised I would do it all over again, despite the tearing. And only 7 weeks on, I am already thinking about when, not if. Nature really does have it's own plans.

Bubble, I agree that antenatal classes don't cover the possiblities properly, as I did not do one single thing on my carefully worked out birth plan. Fortunately that has not affected me as I now know how unrealistic I was.

[gingernut]

I had one of those things in my arm both times too - it's called a cannula I think. Ouch!

And PotPourri, I kept apologising for pooing too!

I've kind of forgotten the pain, in that I can't exactly remember what it felt like, but I remember it hurt like hell alright!

bubble, I agree with you. Had an epidural the first time, and it was brilliant. A very long and difficult labour, but I didn't feel I suffered.
In the end I had a ventouse in theatre, having been prepped for a c/s. My second labour was actually worse than my first, because I did not get adequate pain relief. I was denied an epidural `because the anaethetist was in theatre' (I suspect that this was not true - that they thought I did not have long to go and if I had an epidural I was a high c/s risk because baby was larger than my first. In fact, I still had several hours to go, and this was after 3 days of pre-labour pains so I was so tired I didn't know where to put myself. They conveniently turned up to administer the epidural when I was fully dilated and pushing). I had decided against pethidine as I found it useless the first time, so soldiered on with G&A. Then during 2nd stage (which was 1.5 hours) they even took G&A away because they said I was getting too high on it. For someone who'd wanted an epidural, a pretty horrific experience all in all.

I don't think I'll be doing it again.

Sorry for the rant!

[karaj]

bubble99 - I think you are being a bit harsh on women (like myself) who wanted a natural delivery and indeed had one, mostly due to the excellent care received by my midwives at the Edgware Birth Centre who knew exactly what they were doing.

As a nurse I am sure that you are well aware that humans have DIFFERENT pain threshholds. What is absolute agony to one woman, may be totally bearable to another, and that is NOT showing off. It's scientific fact.

What "crap" are we being sold ? What did women do not so long ago (I am not talking as far back as the Dark Ages here but just less than 2 centries ago) when anesthesia, and all sorts of fancy pain reflief were not available ? Yes, some mothers and babies died due to complications. But most survived.

If anything, I think women hear so often that labour is painful and so unbearable that they HAVE to have pain relief and that if they really can't stand it at all they should have a C-section. C-section rates in this country are running at around 25%. Apparently the global rate is only around 10% and it should be even lower than this.

As I have said on another thread re. BF, the NHS is absolutely paranoid about being sued (I am a lawyer and worked for the NHS for a few months). This may not be very PC, but I am convined that babies are quite often zipped out long before a complication occurs because whoever is in charge is worried that a complication MAY occur and his or her head will be on the block.

This is exactly what happened to my sister with a first baby. She was totally distraught and as a mother who wanted to deliver naturally she had every right to be upset. Thankfully, she has delivered both her subsequent 2 children naturally without any complications. This was only because she became so bloody minded after her first experience that she absolutely would not accept any suggestion to have a C-section unless either she or the baby were on the verge of death.

Words of wisdom from someone whom I always considered "too posh to push" *, but who apparently had both her children by natural delivery, I paraphrase Pamela Andersen (just happened to read this in a copy of "the Sun", a copy of which I found on the tube, etc. : "God intended that women should give birth naturally - they are not meant to die from the pain of labour - if so the human race would be extinct by now".

You may not believe in God, but Darwin, in which case I would agree that "evolution" requires that most women are able to survive labour even without pain relief.

[Skribble]

I don't get it when people stupid things. My first baby was 11lb7oz when I say this the first thing they say is "Did you have him yourself?" They don't like it when I say "No the woman in the next bed had him for me".

No I never forgot the pain!!! and it certainly wasn't a cop out to have a section. Nobody rushed in to "unzip" me. 48hrs before they decided it might not work the "natural way". No s*#t!! .

Did have another but was too posh to push and was booked in for a section. What a woos eh .

[Angeliz]

I haven't forgotten the pain, but dd was only 3 and half hours of pure agony so i'm hoping this one will be just as quick.
I got slow cramps all day but not actual pain, but from the time i think labour started,i suddenly doubled over in pain on the floor and then went straight in to hospital.
I think you do hold your baby and it all seems worth it immediately though. (My biggest shock was looking in the mirror afterwards and seeing all the broken veins in my face from pushing )
I am 38 weeks now and i'm looking forward to the pain at the moment as it will be heaven to not have bloody heartburn anymore

[motherinferior]

Actually, Karaj, the way we've evolved - big heads, small pelvises - makes vaginal delivery rather difficult and frequently traumatic. I personally do not consider a 'likely survival' - with a high possibility of some damage, as well - an outcome that reassures me frightfully. Look at the novels written a couple of centuries ago - death in childbirth was a real fear. And logically, if a woman dies in childbirth but the baby survives, the species - rather chillingly - is continuing, anyway.

[motherinferior]

And after my first birth I didn't hold my baby and think it was all worth while - I wanted the baby and everyone else to bugger off and let me have some SLEEP.

[bubble99]

Skribble

You're not a 'woos' at all for electing to have a CS for your second delivery, the point of pregnancy is to produce a healthy child and mother and I think it's a shame that people have to justify their decision to opt for CS.

karaj, I didn't intend to be critical of women who have had 'natural' deliveries - I intended to be critical of the view that this is the worthier option.

I was just so shocked at how vehemently my SIL opposed induction/intervention and could only assume she had picked this up from her antenatal classes. If this was indeed the case then I think it was irresponsible and indeed unkind to, portray 'natural' delivery as the ultimate goal. In this climate, even the most rational woman can't help but feel she has 'failed' somehow and that seems such a sad, unnecessary way to feel about such a miraculous process.

BTW. The anaesthesia/ analgesia of choice a couple of centuries ago was alcohol. So, no change there then.

[Flossam]

Tinker, you said the midwife said to you that those who have painful periods have shorter labours. I found that really interesting, I normally had painful periods. Wonder if it is because the uterus is toned up from all the contractions when you are menstruating. Is Mears about to tell us?!

[jabberwocky]

bubble I think you are dead on as to your SIL. I was bombarded with books and articles from well-meaning natural birth advocates. It meant that I refused to listen to my gut instincts as a mother and my baby and I could easily have died as a result. Finally, I did get empowered enough to demand a second opinion (after 30 hours of labour!) Turns out no one had noticed that the baby was frank breech. I would have never ever been able to vaginally deliver this child.
As far as the evolution theory goes, the approximately 25% each year who need c-sections and would possibly/probably die without them would still mean the species would go on, but thankfully we have also evolved enough intelligence to know that is not acceptable. Hence the c-section!

[bubble99]

Well done to you jabberwocky for managing to assert yourself when you must have been knackered!

[morningpaper]

Karaj: Most people would be able to survive surgery without pain relief but I don't think you'd be welcome suggesting that down at your local operating theatre. Many of us would also survive without electricity, nice warm houses, readily available food and medical care.

This is called PROGRESS.