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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Original poster

Update on Unsupportive Community Midwifes

32 replies

BabiesEverywhere · 12/06/2008 17:53

Following on from here

I have had a phone call from the Head of Midwifery today saying she wanted to met up with my consultant and herself.

I asked why the consultant would be there as I am low risk and wish to discuss midwife support for a home birth and she said he didn't have to be.

She suggested alternatively that she comes with her consultant midwife. She says they can definately sort this out and I will be supported in labour.

Sounds good, in theory....however this is the same stuff I was told when the consultant midwife came out to meet me a couple of months ago and reassured me that the local community midwifes would support me in a home birth. In that meeting the consultant midwife, even brought the senior midwife to meet me (i.e. The same one who upset me on the phone last week talking about my baby dying.)

SO we are back to the same scenerio, just up one flipping level.

What do I do now ?!? How can I be sure that they won't slap me with another unsupportive nervous midwife and this time I wouldn't know until I'm in labour.

I guess, I have just lost all faith in this group of midwifes and I worry that they will all be as negative and ungenuine as the couple I have met.

OP posts:
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whomovedmychocolate · 12/06/2008 17:56

Have you actually got in touch with AIMS yet. I've said I don't want to meet with the head of midwifery as I know the risks and don't want to waste her time or mine going through it all again. Also if you do accept the meeting DON'T GO ALONE you'll be outnumbered.

I would just write and say thanks, but no thanks and that you are still planning to go ahead and expect a confident and competent midwife to attend you in labour at home.

whomovedmychocolate · 12/06/2008 18:11

Bumping for the vigilante midwifery set!

Original poster
BabiesEverywhere · 12/06/2008 18:14

Yes, my letter was sent to AIMS, LSA and the local MSLC. As well as the Chief Executive, Head of Midwifery and Supervisor of Midwifes at my local hospital. Plus I rang up the Chief Executive PA to check they had got my letter.

OP posts:
Pruners · 12/06/2008 18:38

Message withdrawn

Original poster
BabiesEverywhere · 12/06/2008 18:49

The thing is they have (yet again) promised to support me in a home birth but are not actually DOING it. They are nodding dogs, of course we will support you and when it comes down to it I have not seen any support.

Like the re-mention of the flipping consultant, I have no need for an consultant.

I am tempted to not have a meeting and instead agree things via email. In that way I have chance to phrase things carefully and get advice if I need it.

When it comes down to it, I need agreement in writing or I am screwed.

I need to have a hospital agreement confirmed in writing.

I need to know what they propose to put in place so I have support and that also needs to be confirmed in writing.

I just can't see the point of a face to face meeting, waste of everyones time (but if we had one yes, my DH and hopefully my doula would be there)

OP posts:
Original poster
BabiesEverywhere · 12/06/2008 18:58

My husband thinks we need to meet them to agree stuff.

OP posts:
Mintpurple · 12/06/2008 19:52

Hi Babies - I have just skimmed your other thread and I really cant see what all the fuss is about from the hospital, obviously they are not keen on homebirthing and are looking for any excuse.

As for your meeting, if you think it will achieve anything, then go to it (with your husband and doula) but if you think its just a rehash of the same old 'we'll talk you out of it by scaring you' stuff, then forget it.

If you do communicate by email you would have the benefits of documented conversations if there was any problems later, so that is a good idea.

Would it be possible to meet some of the team of CMWs and see if there is someone you 'click' with who you could trust to do the right thing?

The other thing about being transferred is that I would ask them to write a list of reasons that would lead to a transfer with an explaination of their rationalle in each case. Some will be obvious like thick meconium etc but in your case it may be something like 'slow progress' and I would be looking for some concrete guidelines that you both agree on beforehand so that they cant just spring something on you to transfer you in. As has been mentioned on MN many times before, there is always an alternative to doing something, and that is to do nothing and wait and see if a situation resolves. For example in the case of slow progress, if they t/f you in to hospital you will end up with synto etc, but if you do nothing and stay at home longer, will there be a detrimental effect on you or baby - probably not.

Shoulder dystocia is one of the main worries in your case and it might be worth having a growth scan at 36-38 weeks, on the proviso that you then make your own decision about continuing your plans for HB and are under no obligation to have a hospital birth if baby is bigger than average. All m/w have to undergo training each year to be competent to deal with a shoulder dystocia, and in fact most SDs are managed in the hospital by the midwives rather than the Drs anyway so they will deal with that if it occurs. In over 20 years as a midwife, I have dealt with SDs many times and can assure you that a severe shoulder dystocia that will result in death is incredibly rare. Likewise they are all trained in neonatal resuscitation so they should be able to deal with this if necessary. This has turned into a huge post again - sorry

Im so sorry you are having to go through all this crap just to get what you rightly deserve.

I hope it all works out for you

FrannyandZooey · 12/06/2008 20:01
EachPeachPearMum · 12/06/2008 20:40

Maybe we need a support thread for this issue? Mine made me cry this week - after my booking appointment. Gah- I have weeks, nay months of this to come...

jamila169 · 13/06/2008 09:09

Babies -get them to come to your house -don't go to them, you'll be in control then!

jamila169 · 13/06/2008 09:12

And it's not as though 8 pound 12 for your last is totally ginormous - It's like when you're having a HBAC - you have anything that can be shined up into a crisis, and you find out who doesn't like homebirths

JoDivine · 13/06/2008 09:13

Go for the home birth if that is what you want. I had a horrible first delivery in hospital.

Next two I had at home, my youngest came out with a the cord around his neck, which was scarey to say the least, but he was fine and it was dealt with very quickly by the midwife.

Original poster
BabiesEverywhere · 13/06/2008 09:21

Do you are right about finding out who is truly home birth friendly.

Mintpurple, You said "Shoulder dystocia is one of the main worries in your case" but that is not the case. This is the excuse given as to why I need a growth scan.

A growth scan will only give a crap estimation of the baby's size, while 48% of Shoulder Dystocia cases happen with smaller than average babies, so it is not even linked to big babies !!!

A growth scan will give zero information on a potential Shoulder Dystocia situation only labour will do that, I have a 1 in 24 thousand chance of it being me (fingers crossed it isn't) hardly a done deal. The midwife has got this bee in her bonnet as it as easy out for her.

OP posts:
fabsmum · 13/06/2008 10:16

"so it is not even linked to big babies

50% happen in average sized babies, but the other 50% occur with macrosomic babies - which are a much smaller proportion of the overall infant population, so it IS more common with bigger babies.

However this is irrelevant to you as at 8lbs 12oz your first baby's weight falls completely into the range of 'normal'.

Mintpurple · 13/06/2008 12:02

'Mintpurple, You said "Shoulder dystocia is one of the main worries in your case" but that is not the case. This is the excuse given as to why I need a growth scan'

What I really meant was that it is one of the main reasons the hospital is using to try to stop you from having a homebirth.

Have a look at this site published by ALSO which is the body that runs advanced courses for obststric staff, mainly obststricians and senior midwifery clinicians. Have a look at -

Antepartum risk factos on p 16

Sorry it wont let me cut and paste it. It gives interesting stats for shoulder dystocia, but it also goes on to say that predicting a big baby will NOT predict shoulder dystocia, although it is recognised that the incidence of shoulder dystocia does increase with the size of the baby. It it about 1% overall, dont know where you got the 1:24000.

This paper, although it is long, will provide you with all the comebacks that you need against the hospital when they try to put you off a HB due to the size of baby. Might be worth printing it out.

I can see that you dont like the idea of a growth scan, so dont do it!

Good luck

Mintpurple · 13/06/2008 12:04

ALSO paper on shoulder dystocia

-Sorry forgot the link

kiskideesameanoldmother · 13/06/2008 12:47

speak to your local nct antenatal leader? see if she can come along to a meeting as your informed person - who would then focus as a witness of sorts?

lulumama · 13/06/2008 14:51

is your doula going with you?

i would meet with tehm and insist on signed agreements re your care

at least the lines of communication are open now, and they are sitting up and paying attention.

and definitely speak to aims and/ or the woman i emailed you about

StarlightMcKenzie · 13/06/2008 15:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

PortAndLemon · 13/06/2008 15:58

Maybe have the meeting, then send them an email "confirming what was agreed at our meeting today" and asking them to confirm that they agree with what you've written?

curlywurlycremeegg · 13/06/2008 16:26

Babies email if you get a chance, if you are at the hosp I think you are I have "worked their system" before on a personal level so may have some suggestions that will help. Hope this isn't draining you too much

Original poster
BabiesEverywhere · 13/06/2008 20:07

lulumama, Yes, my doula will attend the meeting and my DH. I will ring AIMs and the other lady you mentioned for advice. My doula suggested finding the passionate experienced home birth midwifes, there should be a couple in out area. i.e. Ladies who has this job as a vocation rather than a job, hence more likely to do their best by us.

Thanks for email curlywurlycremeegg

Mintpurple, thanks for the link...very useful.

Thanks everyone else, I am just feeling sad today. We had to put our beloved cat George to sleep

OP posts:
feb · 14/06/2008 10:46

babies, so sorry to hear about your cat
i would go to the meeting as i think if you show willing, they are more likely to do so too. You may only get their backs up if you don't keep talking to them.

its so frustrating though isnt it. have recently had booking appt and cmw made it very clear the team in my area don't do many HBs so are not confident in doing so, and definitely wont support me if i use a birth pool at home. frankly, if they don't have the confidence to safely deliver my baby i don't have the confidence to go through with it either.

Foldiroll · 14/06/2008 10:49

Oh Feb, that's sad! Surely it is their responsibility to provide a midwife that IS confident, - even if that means booking an IM for you!?

lulumama · 14/06/2008 10:53

feb, the head of midwifery has an obligation to ensure there are adequately trained midwives avaialble to support you. please contact AIMSwww.aims.org.uk they can help you . you should not imss ouyt on the birth you want becasue the MWs are not confident. it is very sad that women are missing out becasue some MWs are only confident delivering babies in a hospital setting