I regret choosing vaginal birth

[Sept2024]

Calling all expecting mums- I gave birth vaginally and I feel misled. I needed ventouse, episiotomy and forceps and ended up with a third degree tear. I needed to go into a theatre FULL of staff for stitches without my baby afterwards and now suffer incontinence as a result of my tear.

i wasn’t told how very common it is to need an instrumental birth.

if I could go back in time I would have gotten a c section. I just want first time mums to be aware of what can happen if you’re unsure how to give birth to help your decision making because I didn’t know how common it was really. It was honestly horrible

Women should be able to make a fully informed choice between section and vaginal birth, but currently the NHS pushes vaginal birth, as do classes. You can't make an informed choice without information. You get an entire booklet on a section. You get nothing for vaginal birth. No birth is better than the other. The best birth is the one where the mother has been fully supported to make a decision that suits her.

OP had a traumatic birth and people have piled on her saying she's trying to scare people. She is allowed to use the words she needs to express her trauma, and if she wants another child, she's allowed to choose an elective section if she wishes. I'm sure OP knows there are risks to sections, as everyone knows as you are told it by midwives, consultants, family, etc. I was confident in my decision but literally everyone around me tried to talk me out of it, including my mum!

It only took 6 months for my c section to heal.

I would take that over 9 years (I’m sorry it took so long!)

I went through an emergency C-section over 18 years ago. It was horrible, and took about six weeks to recover. No-one told me what to expect. I had pre-eclampsia. I have wide hips, I could have given birth naturally if things were different. I struggled to bond with Baba afterwards and I decided she was going to be my only one.

This is quite eye opening for me about how little we are educated as women. I think I had a c section at nearly full dilation as I was 10cm, DD had to be pulled out with forceps during the section, this was all done because her heart rate was not good. I had no idea until your post that such a type of section had extra risks (but I had no choice as she needed to come out and apparently my cervix wasn’t soft enough or something so she wasn’t coming out that way). I also had non stop contractions, something I had no idea could happen (and I think must have caused DD’s distress).

I think there is a culture of non educating expectant mothers about birth beyond that there are two options, vaginal and c section, a bit about pain relief options and then a LOT about breathing, positivity etc. It feels like there’s an attitude of not causing too much worry to pregnant women by educating them about what could go differently/ wrong. I mean, I probably didn’t need any extra education on tearing as ultimately vaginal birth wasn’t an option for me, and others might not need to know about C section complications if they’re going to have a simple vaginal birth, but as OP says it’s impossible to read/be told and understand all the complications whilst you’re in full labour, I had to ask DH to read the stuff as I wouldn’t stop contracting and couldn’t concentrate due to pain. I’m not sure what the answer is.

I’d just like to add that mine was a planned c section and not an emergency.

I’m also not having any more children and childbirth trauma is a factor. Physically it was mostly fine but mentally it took months if not over a year to get over.

Women should be able to make a fully informed choice between section and vaginal birth, but currently the NHS pushes vaginal birth, as do classes

I agree there is a push for VB but birth is so individual & what works for one doesn’t always work for the other and things can change so quickly during birth, one reason it’s so stressful is because we don’t know what will happen. I think particularly in this day and age when things are very controlled it’s hard to accept that.

Reading back I appreciate I got iff lightly.

I agree that as women we are not told all the consequences of medical interventions. There is not enough consent.

@Sept2024 I'm so sorry you had such a time of it .
I had my son 30 years ago and it wasn't good , ended up with what they called high forceps . He was stuck and his head was going back.
Cut and stitched.
And incontinence.
But I thought the incontinence was caused by weak muscles , more a result of the pregnancy and labour , not the episiotomy.

I didn’t feel anymore informed about my planned CS (breech) than my VBs. And again there are discrepancies in the care, I read a bit on here where people said they only had mild discomfort but some stay in longer and some have much stronger pain relief. I was out the next morning & told to take paracetamol at home. I thought there was something wrong with me because I did feel sore but luckily my cousin (GP) had a CS a week before me (we had our previous VBs at the same time as well) so she could commiserate with me.

I find the current anti medical rhetoric around labour despicable. It feels almost criminal to not promote pain relief in labour. There is currently a lot of misinformation around intervention in labour. Yes women have laboured since the beginning of time, but death in child birth used to be common. The only reason it is no longer common is BECAUSE of intervention. But instead there seems to be this weird culture that if you're positive and breath well, your body will know what to do. The thousands of deaths over the years suggest otherwise. Birth is a medical process.

Women need to be told in detail about every single option available to them during different stages of labour, including section and also the different risks of a planned section Vs emergency. It is impossible to make an informed choice without information.

I agree but I know some women who don’t want to know about the complications as they don’t want to be stressed. Certainly the option to go into labour fully informed should be there.

There are some awful stories of complicated labours and how women are treated during them on this thread. It's extremely worrying.
I had a third degree tear from forceps during a delivery that went wrong. There is something extremely traumatic about third degree tears, it's an injury with psychological and physical ramifications and you're unlikely to understand if you haven't had one.
My female obstretician was really unsympathetic, she sewed me up and was like: you might have problems with your anal sphincter now!
I recovered okay but I definitely wasn't told the statistics about what can happen following forceps. I went on to have a planned c section with my second child and I loved it, a healing g experience.
OP I'm wishing you solace and hope you can get the help you need.

Oh OP, I know that anger and pain well. After so many complications and a failure to do a CS, I had a forceps birth while under general anaesthetic - she was ripped out of my vagina while I was asleep - the last way I would have ever chosen for it to happen. I was left with a 4th degree tear and a bucket load of trauma. I was so angry and traumatised for a year. But I was offered physio that means I have absolutely zero physical issues now two years later and PTSD support that means I’ve been able to let go of a lot of the anger and pain that was weighing me down. I really hope you’re offered both of these and if not demand them, they’re your right.

I had a vaginal, non instrumental birth, no episiotomy (although other things went wrong and I had therapy for them). Tore badly and needed a lot of stitches. Took so incredibly long to heal and I've never really recovered.

I'd have had the section if I'd have known too.

Only Paracetamol! I was sent home with diclofenac which I took along with paracetamol and is probably why I found my section largely pain free. I think it’s very wrong of them to only give you paracetamol after major abdominal surgery.

I'm sorry but 1 in 9 is what I would call 'very common'. I find it jaw dropping to suggest that 1 in 9 is uncommon.

Whenever I have seen NHS produced literature that details side effects anything that says 1 in 10 is referred to as very common. But somehow because it's child birth different rules about information and reflecting risk seems to apply!

I would go as far as to say that calling this 'uncommon' is both offensive and misogynistic. It's deliberately trying to mislead and minimise risks to women.

Knowing the numbers of that, I think many women who have been sold hypnobirthing would be shocked.

Keep in mind that a lot of women don't even attempt a VB because they have been booked in for an ELCS. So of the women who attempt a VB the number of forceps births is actually higher than 1 in 9. That 1 in 9 figure is immediately misleading for any woman attempting a VB. It higher than 1 in 9.

I also note here that there's a huge amount of conflation between the risks and recovery between an ECMS and an ELCS. Whilst they are theoretically the same, the risks of one are much higher than the other because of the state of the woman as she undergoes it. A woman having an ELCS isn't labouring.

Having said that, risks change for every subsequent birth - they are stacked for VBs in the first birth and lessen for each subsequent one. If you want more than one child you should take that into consideration. For any type of CS the risks increase for each pregnancy.

I do think that women are very poorly informed on this and that it's appalling

I've had an emergency section and a planned one. The latter was an absolute dream, the emergency wasn't as easy but still not difficult: I'm so grateful and glad to have come through two births with no lasting issues and just a small scar.

Birth is a risk no matter what way you slice it, but personally I prefer the more controllable risks of a section.

There's actually evidence that maternal request sections (those not being carried out due to health respect with mum or baby) are actually safer than vaginal births. Unfortunately most places don't differentiate in their recording between planned sections where there are medical reasons requiring a section (in which case you would expect a higher number of adverse outcomes) and maternal request sections (low risk pregnancies).

amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/feb/13/caesareans-or-vaginal-births-should-mothers-or-medics-have-the-final-say

In 2021, a team of Canadian researchers found a hospital database in Ontario that, unusually, had logged MRCs. This allowed them to compare MRCs to other low-risk pregnancies where the plan, but not necessarily the outcome, was a vaginal birth.

The data shocked the study’s head author, Darine El-Chaâr, a perinatal researcher at the Ottawa hospital. In the planned vaginal birth group, there was a higher percentage of negative outcomes compared with the MRC group, driven by serious vaginal tears and babies admitted to intensive care. “I myself am challenged by the data,” she says, underlining that she believes vaginal birth is natural. “I wanted it to be the other way around.”

A lot more work needs to be done on actually recording proper statistics so women can be properly informed. Around two-thirds or more of first births end in either a section or instrumental birth (RCOG stats) but no one likes to talk about that either.

Just to balance, hopefully not to smug, I had two vaginal deliveries with no real issues. First induced and epidural, which I wish I hadn't, was mostly due to fear of pain. But normal delivery, 12 hours, no cuts or tears or instruments. Second gas and air, very quick, delivered in less than one hour, again no physical issues. Up and at the school run next day.

I delivered 20 years ago, one birthing class, no NCT, no internet. I do wonder whether everything has become so much more traumatic now because of information overload, fear, too much sharing, increasingly medicalised births. Where are the home births, the water births, the calm and supportive births, allowed to get on naturally.

Don't get me wrong, thank God for medical intervention when things go wrong, but we're definitely not doing everything right if so many mothers need CS and horrible damaging interventions in this day and age. It's medieval.

'Around two-thirds or more of first births end in either a section or instrumental birth (RCOG stats) but no one likes to talk about that either.'

@doodle@doodleschnoodle I found similar stats after my first birth and couldn't believe that childbirth classes aren't geared with this in mind. There was a lot of think positive crap.

Sounds like a horrendous experience OP, made worse by not being fully informed.
I do think things should be improved, on top of the standard more staffing etc
-Fully informed consent before hand on all aspects including decision making tools so you can decide what is right for you. There are risks to every decision.
I think you should get the standard info in antenatal classes and then as things happen in late pregnancy/birth they should be updated for your situation. These things already exist for choices like whether to be induced or continue waiting when you are over 41 weeks pregnant etc. I know this would take a lot of data, but this is not impossible.

-Antenatal classes not run by charities which have opinions, but actually explaining all the above data.

-Antenatal and postnatal physio for everyone! Every pregnancy batters the pelvic floor. Surely this would decrease the risk of later need for various pelvic floor surgeries and would save the NHS money in the long run.

-Post birth debrief, particularly when things are difficult, but really for everyone

While I'm making my wishlist I would also add in dietitian/lifestyle consultations available to all during the pregnancy and postpartum, lactation consultants (possibly in groups so you get to try a few and choose someone you get on with], ditto counsellors.
Oh and Kraamzorg as standard. This is a Dutch thing where someone (well trained] comes to your house in the early weeks and does the cleaning/ironing, your groceries, cooks, but can also help with bathing baby or whatever you want really.

I actively want to thank women like you who are so honest.

I had a planned CS for lots of reasons but one of the key ones was considering how I would cope with worst case scenarios. Ultimately the risks of a planned ELCS felt something I could cope with better than the psychological and physical ramifications of a very serious tear.

I think there is a real lack of care and support for women who suffer from them which is truly dreadful.

@Sept2024 sorry that you're struggling - many of us would do things differently if outcomes were known - birth can be a traumatic experience for many mums and post birth complications common. You need to concentrate on making your peace with it - it does happen eventually.

My advice would be to try not to go in with too many priors, make the best decisions you can based on the turns the birth takes and understand that it takes time to recover mentally and physically.

My Dutch friend was staggered that we have no equivalent.

I'm not sure I like the idea on a personal level. I think I'd have found it intrusive. I couldn't stand health visitors.

But I think having access to that support would be appreciated and welcomed by many.

I had the exact same thing. Doubly incontinent for a while. It's been 3 years and it's gotten slightly better.
No one told me this could happen. I agree it's terrible that it's not warned about.