Epidural questions - Why the stigma attached

[horseshoe]

I had one with DD1, G&A with DD2, desperately trying for a home birth for DC3.

I have said to the MW that if I end up going to hospital I am just gonna ask for epidural if I feel I want one to which she replied "Oh you dont want one of those".

With DD1 I did have vontouse delivery but I had epi after 18 hours of labour when I was 8cm dialated and before they realised that baby was back to back and getting stuck in birth canal.

Everyone I speak to especially "angellic "i've had 3 natural no drugs birth sis" appears to look down their noses at this decision.

So can anyone tell me why they are so wrong and what is the best time to have one - nearer birth or early labour. I seem to remeber that they wait until at least 4cm dialated.

Sod what anyone else thinks. If you feel that during labour you need an epidural then have one. You are the one experiencing the pain at the time, no one else. And you do not get a medal for bravery at the end of it. I didn't have an epidural but would have if I had felt I had needed it. Each to their own. I just don't understand the stigma.

When I had DC1 I was convinced I wouldnt have an epidural "no ones putting a needle into my spine" but I have to say once the pain kicked in they could have stuck needles in my eyes if it was going to stop it!! My labours are pretty short so the fact that an epidural can slow things down wasnt really an issue for me.

So DC 1 I had the epidural..had a nice relaxed labour chatted etc...I did have to have a few stitches, a catheter overnight and suffered bad dehydration a few days later.

DC 2 I had no epidural just gas & air (I worked in a medical environment and they all advised against pethedine for various resons) I found the whole experience quite distressing like something out of the middle ages, I felt sick had a whoosing noise in my ears and couldnt hear a WORD anyone said to me. But when DC2 was handed to me I was much more "aware" of him - my memorys of meeting him for the first time are much clearer than with DC1 and I had no stitches.

It took me MUCH longer emotionally to get over the labour without the epidural but was quicker to physically recover. Quite frankly the labour without the epidural put me off of ever having another child.

Do what YOU want, dont let them put you off just weigh up the pros and cons.

I would advise having someone to keep an eye on you too - much as the midwives to a great job they are so short staffed they left me alone for ages despite me telling them it wouldnt take long , I nearly did the whole thing on my own.

"It took me MUCH longer emotionally to get over the labour without the epidural"

From what you say you were yet another mum who was left to cope alone in labour. I wonder what this did to your anxiety levels - conscious and unconscious, and how it affected your perceptions of the pain you experienced.

All the research into the value of continuous support during childbirth points to it impacting on the degree to which women feel they're able to manage pain in labour.....

I honestly thought I could die (and lets face it the statistics are getting worse for such a "civilised" country) - They eventually called a reserve midwife in to deal with me specially and called hubby back (they had told him to go home)

I really struggled probably for about a year afterwards with depression.

I have to say my second labour with DD2 was rather like that. Even though I managed to cope right unitl the end with only a birthing ball for company, when I eventually felt the need to call a MW and get on the G&A, the MW who had shown me into the room some 4 hours earlier came and said she was unable to assist me with the birth and rattled something about being on a break and having to because of health and safety laws say she needed some sleep or something before she drove home.

She then wandered off to find someone and i really started to panic. baby then started to crown just as a mw came in. I was pushing long before she had scrubbed up and was ready to assist.

Although the labour itself was straight forward, I do look back at it now and wonder what would have happened at any of those points, had something gone wrong.

With DD1, I had loads of interventions but my epi was as a result of back to back labour and DD1 facing a funny angle at the birth canal. However, I felt "looked after" and confident that they were going to get me through the labour no matter what.

"I honestly thought I could die"

Two of my friends have had unassisted births in our local consultant led unit.

I feel so sad for mums who are left to labour alone in the middle of a busy hospital.

It's wrong in every possible way.

"I honestly thought I could die"

Two of my friends have had unassisted births in our local consultant led unit.

I feel so sad for mums who are left to labour alone in the middle of a busy hospital.

It's wrong in every possible way.

I was not left alone in labour, as I arrived at 9cm dilated and was constantly attended by a sr. midwife, a student midwife, a nurse and DH.

Yet the pain was so intense I still truly wanted to die and the pain I felt scarred me deeply.

I never want to feel that again! I felt like I was being disembowelled and my bottom half ripped in two.

And no, I did not tear, I had only a graze. The baby was 6lbs., 9oz.

I had an epidural because I was in screaming agony.

I'm interested to see out of all the epidural stories here, nobody seems to have experienced what happened to me - 12 hours of merciful release with the epidural, then given syntocynin, then told I had to LET THE EPIDURAL WEAR OFF so I could push.

You know, I thought I was well prepared for birth, but NOBODY, ANYWHERE had hinted that I might not be able to give birth with an epidural.

Would be very interested to see if anyone else has had this. The four hours of screaming after the epi had worn off were probably the worst of my life. Still traumatised.

yes krang
i couldn't push due to epi
the ventouse didn't work
result: section

krang - I'm sure I've read that there's no evidence to show that letting an epidural wear off for second stage results in lower rates of assisted birth, in which case you wonder why so many midwives advise it.

I imagine it must be AGONY letting an epidural wear off to give birth - because you wouldn't have built up any endorphins to help you cope with the pain as you would have done under other circumstances.

expat - I wonder why some women like yourself are so haunted by the pain of labour. I remember that horrible sensation that you describe with my second - couldn't believe the pain (baby just shy of eleven pounds, plus at one point BOTH of my midwife's hands inside me trying to free his shoulders) but ten minutes later I was smiling like I had a coathanger stuck in my face and was confident to repeat the experience of an unmedicated birth a year or so later. I wonder if anyone's done any research into what factors influence the way we are affected by the pain of labour. I don't personally feel it's only do to with the LEVEL or the degree of pain - it must be more complex than that.

Sabire, there has been quite a lot of research done into why some women are traumatised by birth and some aren't - it's an interesting subject and I just finished writing a book about it. Interestingly, a lot of the factors aren't directly linked to pain.

There are many factors and it's not entirely understood but some of the reasons are:

? Emergency C-sections and instrumental deliveries
? Fears for the safety of a baby
? Women who feel unsupported by their partners
? Staff who don?t keep women fully informed of what?s happening during or after the birth, or who are dismissive or rude
? A history of sexual abuse, or rape (some experts believe memories of these experiences can be triggered during childbirth)
? Pain during the first stages of labour
? Lack of support following a birth
? Stillbirth
? Insufficient aftercare
? Lack of ?control? during labour
? Birth following severe pre-eclampsia
? Birth of a low birthweight baby

This quote sums it up pretty well:
Four themes emerged that described the essence of women's experiences of birth trauma: To care for me: Was that too much too ask? To communicate with me: Why was this neglected? To provide safe care: You betrayed my trust and I felt powerless, and: The end justifies the means: At whose expense? At what price??

• Cheryl Beck, Birth Trauma: In the Eye of the Beholder, Nursing Research. 53(1):28-35, January/February 2004

stuffitlama - yes, I avoided a section by a hair's breadth, ventouse worked after it transpired DS kept almost coming out and then going back in as cord was round his neck twice.

Hmm, of course we need to explore other factors, but there is still a lot of variation in how much pain you have. My own births could not have been more different in terms of how bad the pain was - to the extent that the second time round I only just got to hospital on time because when I was in transition I assumed from the pain level that things were only just beginning.

I'm with expat - labour and delivery are agonising and I feel pretty haunted by the memory of the pain. I hadn't actually realised that it was possible to be in that much pain and still be alive, iyswim.

I've had three babies without an epidural so I think I know what I'm talking about...

'I wonder if anyone's done any research into what factors influence the way we are affected by the pain of labour. I don't personally feel it's only do to with the LEVEL or the degree of pain - it must be more complex than that. '

Peoples' brains work differently, that's why.

Research has shown, for example, that the brains of redheads perceive more pain than people with other colours of hair.

Or that different pain meds work more effectively on men than on women.

FWIW, I'm really not interested and don't much care why, as long as there is pain relief available to help.

And I know I'm far from alone in how I felt about the pain.

I'm just glad to know that epidural is there for me next time round. And I don't feel any stigma about it at all.

Expat, I imagine you feel the same way about epidurals as I feel about having my own midwife.

After my first I was so frightened of going back into hospital and taking pot luck with whatever midwife happened to be on that night, and the community team wouldn't book me for a homebirth because I was high risk, that I was seriously contemplating an unassisted birth at home. Fortunately someone put the idea of an independent midwife into my head (I didn't know anyone at that point who'd had an IM and it hadn't occurred to me that it was a realistic option) so I didn't have to.

I'm glad I've completed my family now as I couldn't afford to pay her again!

Expat, I imagine you feel the same way about epidurals as I feel about having my own midwife.

After my first I was so frightened of going back into hospital and taking pot luck with whatever midwife happened to be on that night, and the community team wouldn't book me for a homebirth because I was high risk, that I was seriously contemplating an unassisted birth at home. Fortunately someone put the idea of an independent midwife into my head (I didn't know anyone at that point who'd had an IM and it hadn't occurred to me that it was a realistic option) so I didn't have to.

I'm glad I've completed my family now as I couldn't afford to pay her again!

Labour still very fresh in my memory, I had g&a, I did read available info on epidurals as i have a pain threshhold of nil!

The process of giving birth has been medicalised so much over the yrs, & on balance this has been worthwhile for difficult / dangerous births, my reservations would be around the fact that birth cannot be aligned to a broken bone, childbirth is a natural process & should be treated as such , untill the need for intervention is assessed. There are risks with epidurals & spinal problems are well documented.

Imvho, i feel epidurals have a place but not untill problems have been idenified to justify the purpose.

Childbirth is a natural process I agree, but why should that affect the type of pain relief a woman chooses. No one should have to justify why they want an epidural. If a woman cannot obtain relief from anything else then why not.

This is an example of the fear-mongering and stigma that keep women from asking for an epidural in the UK.

Sabire wrote -- "I imagine it must be AGONY letting an epidural wear off to give birth - because you wouldn't have built up any endorphins to help you cope with the pain as you would have done under other circumstances."

WRONG. Not in my experience, also not the experience of friends of mine who had epidurals. In fact, I think it's a bizarre statement and I wish you would respect the original poster's intentions. She wanted to know about optimal timing for an epi and why there is so much stigma. In other words, she wants to be SUPPORTED in her choice to have an epidural, should she want one. It's her birth, her pain, her baby - and she is by no means alone in how she feels.

I've had 3 epidurals (two VBs and oneCS) and felt no stigma at all with any of them. I actively wanted strong pain relief and wrote this in all my birth plans. My ideal scenario was to have an epidural fairly early on and then let it wear off a bit for the second stage. It didn't all work exactly to plan but that's childbirth for you. I felt proud that I was having a medicalised birth which I personally felt was safest for the baby.

I think that rightly, or wrongly, epidurals have been stigmatised. I had one with ds and sort of still feel the need to justify it to people which I know I shouldn't, but I do. Even my MIL somehow implied I'd cheated. She never had one obviously .

I was all set for the home water birth but ds didn't play along. Waters broke but 4 days later - still no sign of labour. Felt forced into induction despite my instincts that ds would arrive when he was good and ready and what do you know? I responded badly to it and after around 9 hours I had only got to 4cm and felt utterly consumed by the pain. Midwife advised me "not to be a hero" and I couldn't have got the epidual in any quicker frankly. The whole thing, predictably, culminated in an emergency cs 18 hours later. I don't think the epidual helped but tbh, I think they might as well have just wheeled me into surgery the minute that bloody drip went in. I still have some resentment about the way my ds was forced into the world and it isn't nice to carry around. On the upside, he didn't seem to be affected by the drugs (he latched straight on as soon as he was given the opportunity) but he seemed bloody angry for his first few weeks.

If I have another, I'd hope to avoid an epidural but as I found out, we don't always get the birth we had in mind. My point for the OP(and I do have one) is just keep an open mind and don't let anyone push you around. Your instincts are almost certainly right.

Best of luck xx

Penny - I am amazed your doctor or midwife let you walk around for four days after your waters had broken. How come they were not worried about a possible infection?

Any process that has a 1.5% 'natural' death rate is a dangerous activity for which I will be needing all the help I can get.

I agree, PictureThis.