do epidurals affect the baby?

[micegg]

For some reason I always thought they had little or no affect on the baby because they are sited into the mothers spine and I assumed they acted a bit like a local anaesthetic to the area. I just remember one of the MWs on the post natal ward commenting that they say epidurals dont affect the baby but they do when trying to work out why DD never latched on for breast feeding. Does anyone know the answer?

Thanks

i'm not 100% but i'm sure it makes baby drowsy for few days but i could be wrong i only had gas and air but have heard baby becomes sleepy

I'm not sure of the 'scientific' answer to this one - but my personal opinion is that a baby will be far more adversly affected by having a mother who is shocked and traumatised by giving birth without the pain control she needed, than they are by the passing effects of the medication.

Good point NL. I just have a bit of a guilt trip about why DD wouldnt BF and this comment stuck in my mind. I am due with DC2 in 3 weeks and would like BF to be successful this time.

Epidurals only affect the baby indirectly.

The drugs don't pass to baby and they don't make him/her sleepy.

What they do do is make the chances of intervention higher, including ventouse, forceps, emergency Caesarean section. All these things affect the baby (obviously!).

I don't think your DD sturggled with BF because of your epidural. You get what pain relief you need - and don't beat ourself up about it! I hope your BF relationship is great this time, whatever pain relief you choose!

No, or at least not in my experience. DD very keen to latch on and very alert after being born.

micegg - I wondered the same. I had an epi quite late on in my last labour and then ds was drowsy for days and slow to latch. From the comments here it sounds like the epi was not to blame

I'm due in May and would like to manage without an epi this time because it did slow down the pushing contractions in the end. BUT if I'm really finding it tough going, I'm not going to be a hero! I hated that panicky feeling last time and the epi took all that panic away. Good luck btw

I don;t think so but I bottle fed the baby who had the epidural (don't ask).

I would just like to say - having had an emergency section, followed by and epidural/ventouse and then totally natural labour with no pain relief - the last one was the easiest and less stressful a million times over.

There was an excellent link to an article on another thread - Klaw posted it. It was very technical but went through all the statistics about epidural and the possible effects on the baby. I think the main knock-on effect is that an epidural makes interventions such as forceps/csection more likely.

I think that ds was affected by the epidural I had in that I then needed a ventouse delivery which made him feel really poorly. We had feeding trouble for a few days and he was quite badly jaundiced which I believe is common with a ventouse. It wasn't something I wanted anyway but needed syntocinon for failure to progress and was advised to have an epidural with it. Am really determined to not have one iwth this baby.

Thanks everyone . Thats made me feel better. I have been secretly harbouring this for the last 2 years. As it happened the only additional intervention I had was the syntocinon drip and managed to avoid the forceps/ventouse.

Had a walking epidural with ds1. No other intervention (gas and air not an option, nor pethadine, this was a US hospital). Pushed for less than half hour, no ventouse/forcepts, minimal tearing. Baby's Apgar score was 9 right away. In other words, he was born very healthy, no side effects from the epidural.

Most epidurals these days use a combination of local anaesthetic and opiates (usually fentanyl)in the mix. The inclusion of fentanyl give you a less dense motor block than the old style epidurals so you have more mobility. The downside is that they CAN affect the baby in the way the old style epidurals didn't, and there have been a couple big studies over the past few years confirming this: they found found that babies born to women who've had epidurals are more likely to have problems establishing breastfeeding.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6161727.stm

Most epidurals these days use a combination of local anaesthetic and opiates (usually fentanyl)in the mix. The inclusion of fentanyl give you a less dense motor block than the old style epidurals so you have more mobility. The downside is that they CAN affect the baby in the way the old style epidurals didn't, and there have been a couple big studies over the past few years confirming this: they found found that babies born to women who've had epidurals are more likely to have problems establishing breastfeeding.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6161727.stm

Sorry - have to add, the comment from the obstetrician at the bottom that "For a woman who wants an epidural, there are a wide range of obvious benefits" did cause me to roll my eyes.

I can think of three benefits of having an epidural:

no pain (obviously this one is considerable!)

reduction in blood pressure (only a 'pro' if your blood pressure is too high - otherwise it's a 'con')

if you have to have a c-section it'll take less time to prep you and reduces the likelihood of needing a general in the rare event of a crash c-section

Can anyone else think of any benefits? I can't. And there are no benefits for the baby at all.

BTW - I speak as someone who had an epidural with my first: ended up with a forceps birth and a bruised, sleepy baby who didn't feed well. I'm not 'anti' epidurals per se - I'm profoundly glad they exist because there are a small number of women whose labours would be living hell without them.

BUT - once you really get your head around all the subtle and less subtle problems that can go with them...... well.... I'd never lightly have one again. I did everything to avoid having one with my third baby - despite a VERY long, painful labour (it took me from 8am Monday to 5pm Wednesday to get from 5cm to full dilatation, with no significant lull in contractions. Most of this time the baby was back to back and I couldn't sit or lie down comfortably).

All of this is all very well if you are having a baby where there is a range of pain relief. I will be having my first in Spain next month and there is NO OTHER pain relief. I will be having an epidural no doubt. If I were in Britian I don't think I would entertain the idea, but I would be able to have a water birth, gas and air etc.
Here, my only option is an epi so for a first birth, disadvantages or not I'm DAMN glad it exists, otherwise I'd be biting down on a towel tied to the end of a bed.

In my case, benefits for the baby I think would include his mother not having to go through the pain and fear of a birth without any pain relief.

Macaco, the other difficulty in Spain is that they'll expect you to lie down on the bed all the time, making it all a lot more painful and they'll also take it for granted that you'll want an epidural so they don't offer much support in terms of coping with the pain in other ways. My best advice to you would be to stay at home as long as possible so you can move comfortably and eat and drink as you wish - it honestly makes a huge amount of difference to how you cope with the pain. Have a shower or a bath, walk around between contractions to speed things up, lean forward on the kitchen worktop or the back of a sofa during contractions, etc. Unfortunately you are very unlikely to be 'allowed' to do any of this in the hospital.

i had two epidurals (one for each baby not two iyswim!) and both fed happily straight away (c-sections too in case that is your situation)

I think that if anything affects the baby it is an exhausted mother who has been through lots of pain - i think see how you go on the day

Message withdrawn

Apparently, epidurals can affect the cycle of hormones that are all part of giving birth. Once this cycle is interupted, then it's harder for the hormones to continue their work and keep things moving.

As a result, the chances of medical intervention rise quite alarmingly after an epidural i.e. forceps, C-section.

But I'd never say don't have one if the pain is too bad.

And an epidural can mean lying down more which can hinder birth too.

But I've not heard of them affecting bfing.

"I wonder if we have got this 'first feed within half an hour' thing a bit wrong - I'm sure I've read on here (and I know I have in books) that it's more that the baby gets the closeness and the opportunity to latch on. Does anyone know?"

One thought is that that babies get 'imprinted' with the ability to breastfeed if they manage to latch on quickly after the birth, which makes nipple confusion less likely if bottles are given later.

My personal take is that if your baby DOESN'T feed quickly after birth you're likely to be bombarded with offers of formula by inexperienced staff on the ward, and it's this that damages bf more.....

I reckon that with good help and a strong confidence in breastfeeding almost all women could overcome a wobbly start. But then so many women in this country have no confidence that breastfeeding works, plus they have rubbish support.

"I think that if anything affects the baby it is an exhausted mother who has been through lots of pain - i think see how you go on the day"

I really can't see how an epidural will leave you LESS exhausted, given that your labour is likely to be longer than it would have been had you not had it. Plus you're more likely to run a temperature/need your labour augmented/have an assisted birth/be catheterised etc, none of which improve your health or your ability to care for your baby after the birth.

Personally I've had two very long labours, one with an epidural and one without. I was far more chipper after my unmedicated birth - after three days in labour I had enough endorphins in my body to keep me on a high for about a week! I was flying..... After my epidural labour - though I was ecstatic with my baby I didn't have the same natural high.

"benefits for the baby I think would include his mother not having to go through the pain and fear of a birth without any pain relief"

Labour pain isn't pathological and doesn't damage your baby. OK - it's not good for women to be fearful or horribly stressed in labour but there are lots of ways of reducing fear and helping women to cope with pain that don't involve disrupting the normal labour process in the profound wa an epidural does: it's called using midwifery skills! Shame that Spain is so backward about these things. If I was you I'd be looking for a good doula......

sabire - was your birth with an epidural your first one? many people tend to find the second one easier for many reasons, obviously, and recover better. my concern is that your post may worry pregnant women reading this, or feel guilty if they have one - and, really, it is imposible to know how they will feel at the time. I dont think they are forced on people - they cost too much for a start!

i also had great midwife care - especially with feeding - nobody offered me formula - i did ask at one point and they insisted i try latching on yet again. I think lots of nhs midwives can be marvellous.

Epidural rates in Sweden are about 30%. They have the best maternity care in the world. Pethadine (which seems so popular in the UK) is considered obsolete in Sweden. Queen Charlotte's in London no longer allows it because of its side effects. Gas and air is NOT used in the US and most of Europe because of its side effects.

But the UK seems to have a culture in which gas and air and even pethadine are talked about as part of "natural birth" and women are put down for opting for epidurals. Warnings about the "cascade of interventions" following an epidural generally don't cite any figures or studies. Or, the facts are glossed over. Most epidurals, most of the time, are safe for the mother and baby.

My 2 p. It's cheaper to give Entonox or Pethadine. So the NHS promotes that culture, and the midwives do too because it keeps the [male] doctors away.