Breastfeeding

[Anniiee24]

Hi all,

Sorry this is a little long but need some advice. My newborn is 8 days old today.

At first I struggled to get her to latch but managed to at 6 days in! So I am currently EBF

The problem or concern I have is - I am not getting enough sleep because my baby is always feeding. She is always on my boob, like she is hungry 24/7 - this is giving me no time to sleep and I feel like a zombie.

Is this normal? For example, I have been up since 3am and she is still on my boob, it is now 08:37

She is having wet and dirty nappies so not concerned she isn't getting enough. But being on my boob for 5 hours - I am absolutely exhausted. If by any chance she does fall asleep, I will put her in her crib (swaddle sometimes) but she will just wake up and scream wanting to be fed again

I could express but due to the first few days having a bad latch, my nipples are sore and broken. feeding her is bad enough, I am almost screaming in pain every time

Please advise me.

I mainly expressed with my last baby as they struggled to latch for about the first 6 weeks. It got so much better after that. If you're going to pump and feed her a bottle you need to pump at least every 3 hours. Day and night otherwise it could really damage your supply. It might be worth pumping on one side and feeding from the other for say 48hrs to let that nipple heal a bit, and then swapping over. Or using nipple shields when you do let her take that side again. Make sure you get the right flange size for pumping, or hand express.

Please do seek some support from someone properly trained, even if you can't get out to a group. The National Breastfeeding Helpline have been amazing when I've contacted them. I rang them last week and we spent 30 minutes talking and she came up with solutions to things I didn't even realise might be causing a problem.

Feeding for 5 hours solid is not normal. To come off seemingly satisfied and then be seeking it again is normal though. Help her differentiate between day and night by making sure days are nice and bright, some fresh air, a bit of playtime, noise and stimulation. Then keep nights darker, quieter, less talking etc.

It is super difficult but you are doing amazingly.

I had enormous problems breastfeeding my first, ended up having to exclusively pump after the first week to give my nipples time to heal up (I still have a scar on one nipple from the infection I ended up with and she's 13 now!)

But after 5 weeks of her taking expressed milk in a bottle I was able to transition her back onto the breast and fed until she was 18 months old. It is possible, and really wasn't that difficult.

I remember a nurse telling me when I was pregnant that I should have a bottle and some formula in the house because it may actually support me to bf for longer if I could occasionally have a break. I mentally scoffed at this idea, but she was right! As a pp has said, one bottle of formula a night so you can get some sleep might help you to feel a bit more like yourself again, and that doesn't have to be forever, just until this crazy newborn phase passes.

Good luck, I hope it gets better for you really soon. You're doing so well!

Probably get flamed for this, but I mainly followed Charmian Mead's Sleeping Baby Routine book for feeding.

She advises pumping/expressing once in the morning within 20 mins of first morning feed and then once when baby has gone to bed. But please read the book because otherwise that doesn't make much sense on its own. Part of her routine is a bedtime bottle so that's what the milk is used for - means other parent can do bedtime if need be.

I just would have just rolled over and died without that book so I think it's great - others will disagree!

Had her privately checked for tongue tie and they confirmed she does have one. Got it done so please give me hopeful stories of breastfeeding continuing after the procedure?

@Anniiee24 my first had a tongue tie cut at 4 weeks and latch improved massively after that, and breastfeeding stopped hurting.

Hope you see a difference very soon!

Please do not keep your baby awake in the hope she will sleep at night. It won’t work because baby will be overtired, so won’t sleep at night either, and it isn’t fair - baby needs to be sleeping lots during the day too.

They should only have wake windows of 30 minutes to 1 hour at this young stage - they need to be sleeping the rest of the time.

So glad that was diagnosed and sorted so quickly!

My story is further up thread, but I forgot to mention that my DD did turn out to be tongue tied! I fed her for a week and she ripped me to shreds, tongue tie diagnosed and I moved on to exclusively pumping and feeding expressed milk so I could heal up. She had tongue tie snipped at 13 days, but I expressed until 6 weeks then got her back on the breast and bf until 18 months.

She's now a delightful 13 year old and all of that early pain and misery is a distant memory.

You will get through this, you're doing great. Try not to worry too much.

She isn't latching :( the support groups around me are like once a month, the breastfeeding specialist isn't getting back to me.

I am struggling so much and on the verge of giving up BF. I know it's fed baby is best baby but I want to BF so bad

I wish I could just have dealt with the pain a couple of days ago rather than have her not latch :( I'm feeling hopeless

I think it's me, don't even think I'm doing the flipple technique properly

Get the nipple shields on! It's better than giving up if you really want to BF. Do what you need to do! X

@lavenderdilly got them on! she's still struggling with them too and didn't before :(

If she's only just had her tongue tie procedure done then please don't panic, it's probably feeling different and sore for her. A bottle tonight doesn't mean you've failed.

You need to give yourself some grace here because otherwise you will end up giving up purely out of the the stress of it.

The babies feel our stress too, just have to keep telling yourself that this is not a life and death situation, no one's going to go to bed starving, everyone's safe. You're doing your best.

OP - sending you unmumsnetty hugs. You're doing so, so well even if it doesn't feel like it right now. BF can be so bloody hard. I've just put down my EBF six month old from his first night waking, so it does get better.

We had a really tough start with TT and ended up feeding exclusively using nipple shields for the first three months or so. Even though his TT was released quite early, it took a while for his palette to be the right shape to 'work' with my nipples (I was told the TT meant that he had a high bubble palette). There is no way we would have made it so long without the shields so I'm glad you're using them now. It might be worth trying different sizes and/or brands if she's still struggling - the MAM ones were best for us. Plus even with the shields, I needed help with positioning again from a private lactation consultant once the TT was released, so it might be worth considering that if it's an option. Once I could stop using the shields, his feeds became much shorter.

Some of the best advice I received was to never give up on a bad day (I remember despairing when I was told that because every day seemed a bad day but it definitely helped me keep going!) but also that I didn't need anyone's permission to give up (which helped to take the pressure off). It also really helped me to embrace night feeds by setting myself up with box sets and snacks - by not expecting to sleep, any sleep became a bonus!

Could you express for a day or two while her cut heals?

You're doing amazing trying for so long despite the challenges! Please don't beat yourself up. Using some formula now doesn't mean you have to give up breastfeeding either. You can express to keep up your supply and keep trying to put baby on the breast every few hours to see if she latches. Babies get much better at latching the older they get.

I'm really glad they found the tongue tie and she's has the procedure done. For the next few days she will just be working out what to do with her new tongue as she's learnt a latch and now it needs to change. My baby was like WTF is this in my mouth for at least 3 days after. Using nipple shields is a good idea to give something firmer to latch to. I also ended up stripping us both off for every feed so we had skin to skin. We would both be distraught after and hour of trying to latch and then after some skin to skin we both calmed enough to try again and he then got it.

I don't know where you are but I'm North Manchester and there are a couple of breastfeeding organisations near me doing live online chats and Zoom sessions this morning (and most days). They're Boobs_Salford and breastfeedingtogether on Instagram. Breastfeeding Together have a Zoom group on 'Breastfeeding your newborn' at 10am. I doubt they'll ask where you're from so if you aren't getting any joy from elsewhere you could give it a try for support. I also know the lovely La Leche League Leaders in Manchester wouldn't mind if you called them, their number is publicly available, but likely there is someone closer even if youre too far away to make it to meetings. I've used all of these groups with both breastfed babies.

I'm sorry to hear you are struggling. Based on my experience, this is utterly normal. She is cluster feeding to build up your supply. And she might do this for hours every day until it is built up. My advice is to try to do nothing else. At 8 days old with the first baby, you don't need to do too much anyway, hopefully. Sit down, feed your baby, have food brought to you if possible, and drink loads and loads of water. Netflix was invented for mums with cluster feeding babies. Sleep at any moment that you can, but trust me, it will pass (soon), and then you will have a good milk supply, and all will be ticketyboo!!! It is worth it x

Also maybe try a top up bottle of formula. It's awful having the sore nipples 😫

Try some cool compreses by multi mam. I found them brilliant x

I've just read the whole thread... sorry to hear it sounds like you're having a real struggle. I hope it gets better soon and you can find a breastfeeding support group I think that would really help x

Even if they’re only once a month so they not offer telephone or online 1:1 consultations for free? Ours is weekly and still does that - offers 24/7 help because they don’t want anyone to stop that doesn’t want to.

Was it a lactation consultant that cut the tie? They normally offer follow up support for x weeks as part of the package. Msg them. Hang in there x

@overeggedpud hey! I am using the mam nipple shields too, as all recommended them. They are good. Thank you for your advice, I am already doing this! Expecting no sleep and enjoying her as I will never get the this time again

@Emilia35 I am expressing but I am worried she will have nipple confusion? When not breastfeeding, it is the breast milk she is getting from the bottle unless I haven't managed to express in time, then she gets formula. I'm getting 50ml from either side every 4 hours so maybe my supply is low?Thank you x

@Wrongsideofpennines thank you! Doing lots of skin to skin so hopefully that will help. I'm from the midlands so not near Manchester however will look into the instas you have provided - actually going to join the breastfeeding together zoom if they allow me the link in time! LLL doesn't have anyone local to me, are they free?

@Gremlins101 thank you x

@PeachesOnTheBeaches nope nothing

@Whentwobecomesthree yes it was! Her follow up is a week after. Thank you c

La Leche League you can join as a member but their meetings are free or charge like £1 or something tiny for refreshments. I went to their Zoom meetings as it was lockdown when I was first breastfeeding but their meetings are too far for me to get to now I'm breastfeeding my 7 week old. I like their website resources too and Manchester has a Facebook group for support. Like I say I've used the leaders for telephone support a few times, usually in floods of tears when I haven't got a clue what I'm doing wrong, but they have a national helpline too.

I’m very surprised at that. Have you spoken with your infant feeding team?

How much you can express isn’t an indication of supply. Lots of women have a plentiful supply but can only express a little, or sometimes nothing at all.

It would be very rare for you not to make enough for your baby. If you can’t get baby to latch then you need to be pumping at the exact times baby would be feeding to maintain supply, so at this age they’re usually feeding every 2 hours so I would be putting baby to the breast or pumping at those times.

Otherwise you will lose supply, but you can easily make enough for your baby by following the right steps.

What you can express especially at this stage isn’t always a good indicator of what your supply is. So don’t worry if you don’t get loads when you pump. It isn’t necessary an indication of how much baby gets when she feeds

Thought I'd update you all, officially given up. She will be formula fed going forward

Feel like a failure, can't believe I can't even breastfeed.

@Anniiee24 ive just read the thread. I can sense how defeated you feel. My experience isn’t yours but it may help.
I have BF all of my children including twins which was indescribably hard in the beginning. Every time I have been totally floored by difficulties and wanted to give up. Agonisingly sore nipples, blocked ducts, 7/8 hour cluster feeds, low supply to name a few & always following a horrible delivery.
I ploughed through because like you I desperately wanted to breastfeed. Not because of guilt, everyone actively encouraged against, but because it was what I wanted.
The advice I got that really helped was as follows;

If your a baby is gaining weight you are successfully breastfeeding. There’s more to BF of course but for now that would be the main box ticked.

Make sure your baby is getting a good mouthful of actual breast not nipple. A wide latch will instantly relieve pain. Took me four babies to get that right even though I’d been told I had a good latch before. A good latch means nipple doesn’t really come into it.

Around 6-8 weeks is a pivotal moment. Baby is bigger and stronger and knows what to do so now. They can draw milk fat more efficiently and you have more faith in yourself.
if you can get to 8 weeks you will very likely get to 12 and so on.

I don’t know when you decided to stop but I second the PP on not quitting on a bad day.

Im sorry you feel so lousy. I can’t tell you how much I get it. It’s bloody awful but you’ve done an incredible job so far.