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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

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Original poster

Insurance for home births

30 replies

SweetishP · 21/02/2008 23:27

Home birth midwives are having their insurance taken away at end of march here in ireland,and I know that this has been the case in the UK for the past few years. I am due mid april booked in for my second home birth, but my hubby would like to have some sort of cover for the midwife and protect us in case of anything going wrong during delivery, as she will have no personal indemnity insurance. does any one know of any parents who have managed to insure their births either here or in the UK and what companies might offer this?

thanks

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sushistar · 21/02/2008 23:30

I'm confused - are you having an independant midwife? I had an nhs one for my (attempted) homebirth, so insurance no issue.

Original poster

SweetishP · 21/02/2008 23:34

am in ireland so system is maybe a little different? my midwife is independent but is hired and paid for by our equivalent of NHS, but she will have no insurance so if anything goes wrong we have nowhere to claim against

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islandofsodor · 21/02/2008 23:42

Mothers in the UK who opt for an independant midwife just accept that they have no insurance and would not be able to claim.

Many independant midwives have set themselves up as limited companies so that, in the unlikely event that they are sued, they can not be personally liable.

Original poster

SweetishP · 22/02/2008 00:04

Thanks-I guess we'll get to that stage here too, I think it is because we are in transition here between having insurance nad then suddenly nothingm so close to the time of the baby coming it just feels like a safety net has been removed and we're on a very different playing field to the one we started out on. Good idea about limited co. but do you know how that works for parents?

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Original poster

SweetishP · 22/02/2008 00:10

Just to clarify- we wouldn't be planning a home birth or using this midwife if we didn't have complete faith in her and in my ability to birth, we are not the type of people to go suing at the drop of the hat, but when it comes to medical stuff, if we had a baby needing special care because of errors in delivery it would be v expensive and the irish health system is not free (except for pregnancy/ childbirth) so it would be hugely expensive in terms of care, i guess this is one problem which isn't so much of an issue in the UK and hence why insurance is an issue for us- I lived in the UK most of my life nad whatever you say about the NHS and its flaws, I miss it! Long live free doctors visits and not worrying how much it will cost you if you turn up at the hospital/ need antibiotics/ need anything...

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islandofsodor · 22/02/2008 11:35

I do see the difference for you if healthcare isn;t free.

The way the limited company would work is that if a parent sued the midwife and compensation was awarded, the limited company would become bankrupt (assuming there was not enough money to pay the claim), but the midwife herself would not be personally liable so she would not lose her house etc.

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SweetishP · 22/02/2008 13:25

Oh Ok, yup, we certainly wouldn't want to be destroying her life in any way jsut cos our baby needed care, thanks for explaining that...

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beeper · 22/02/2008 14:48

NHS health care is not FREE...we pay TAX and loads of it.

Original poster

SweetishP · 22/02/2008 17:56

sorry beeper, but we also pay high taxes over here and we pay for every trip to the doctor (40 euro), visit to casualty (80 euro plus), night in hospital (450 euro) AS WELL!!! and the state of the system is worse than the NHS

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Tangle · 22/02/2008 20:07

My understanding of the situation re. PII in the UK is that it is being driven by the EU, such that ALL healthcare professionals must have PII if they are to practice within the law. Within the UK there are no companies offering PII to Independent Midwives (there was a policy a few years back, but the annual cost was higher than a lot of IM's annual salaries, and it's now been withdrawn). The date at which the UK government are going to enforce this for IM's hasn't been revealed yet, and negotiations are ongoing trying to find a way for IM's to continue to practice in the UK both independently and within the law.

Good luck with your homebirth. I had one for DD (DC1) last April with IM's. It was a fantastic experience and one that I hope I'll be able to repeat for DC2.

Original poster

SweetishP · 22/02/2008 21:24

Thanks, Tangle,, u seem to have a good understanding of the insurance situation. I had a home birth too for number one and it was truly wonderful, only absolute necessity is going to get me into hospital for number 2, but that necessity might be hubby not being up for uninsured birth....ouch

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Tangle · 23/02/2008 11:11

SweetishP - The more I think about what you've been told the more it seems a bit odd - surely if your midwives are working under contract to your "NHS" she should be covered by the "NHS" insurance (sorry, don't know what the Irish NHS is called ). It seems weird that they'd happily supply you with a midwife that wasn't insured?

I got most of my information from talking to my IM's and from the Save Independent Midwifery site.

What worries me (and my IMs) the most is that we'll reach the situation that's now growing in some states in the US, where insurance dictates that hospitals cannot support women in their birth choices (such as VBAC) and so women are chosing to birth at home and unassisted rather than go in for a section . It's ironic (and potentially tragic) that the requirement for PPI is being presented as a way of making healthcare safer, but in reality for some women it will make things a lot more dangerous .

Original poster

SweetishP · 24/02/2008 14:08

Exactly Tangle, exactly, it is a really bizarre (and complex) situation and because it is so new no one know how it is going to work in practice, The HSE (our NHS)provides the liason service and back up between mothers and midwives (who are independent but contracted by the HSE) and all the admin, and have always required that they be insured, just as the NHS do, but this is a whole new kettle of fish cos now they cannot get insurance, so they are feeling their way at the moment and letting all mums know the situation, and HSE have their own insurance to cover themselves if we sue them. But basically they are considering hteir own position, and the whole scheme may fold within weeks... but seems like first they are jsut going to blunder along in no mans land for a while till something goes horribly wrong

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Original poster

SweetishP · 25/02/2008 20:33

bumping up!! really need to find any parents who have insured their own births

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Original poster

SweetishP · 26/02/2008 22:16

bumping up!! really need to find any parents who have insured their own births

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galwaygal · 27/02/2008 14:17

SweetishP - I can't really help, except to say that I am in the same situation as you. I have an IM booked my due date is 7th April, and I have to say I am probrably just trying to hope that this baby comes more than a week early! I have to say each time I have asked my IM about it, she just calmly says that she is confident there will be a solution at the 11th hour, that it is unlikely that she will be without insurance. I am hoping she is right and not just trying to remain hopeful! I keep thinking, what happens if I go into labour on the 31st March, when it hits midnight does the April fools day joke begin with a hospital transfer!

Tangle · 27/02/2008 21:17

I'm really hoping you ladies find something, but I have to confess my gut feel is that you won't, or the IM's (in both our countries) would most likely be able to get insurance through the same company and this whole thread would be redundant .

We contacted and contracted our IM's on the understanding that they weren't insured. In our opinion, insurance does not guarantee good midwifery care - and for us the option of uninsured, experienced midwives that would give 1 to 1 care (actually 2 to 1 care) at home was a better decision than going to hospital. Especially given that the missing insurance would only cover negligence and we felt that negligence was far more likely to occur in hospital (due to staffing levels, etc) than at home.

It's a very personal decision and not an easy one.

Mintpurple · 28/02/2008 08:39

I agree with you tangle, I was hoping someone would answer this too, but I really doubt that an insurance co would insure a birth, given the unknown variables of midwife experience, past obstetric history of the mother etc, Id like to see how they could do a risk assessment on that!

Sweetish - if you want an IM homebirth I think you will be doing it uninsured, but if you do find a solution to your question, please post back here as Id be really interested to hear.

Lulumama · 28/02/2008 09:42

the only thing i have been able to find is insurance for Doulas, maternity nurses and nannies through MortonMichel... they might be able to advise, they seem to have a bit of a niche market.....

or you bite the bullet and have an uninsured birth.. or an NHS birth ....

Original poster

SweetishP · 04/03/2008 15:58

thanks ladies for all your responses, have been busy past few days, the story will hit the press here at the end of the week, TDs(our MPs) are tabling questions in parliament, Health minister has been notified, head of southern HSE (Our NHS) is being bombarded by a letter campaign- our concern being that first insurance goes,then home birth altogether, a bit like the ominous moves in the UK. so i hold out little hope too, but at least we can say we tried, we rattled the cage and didn't go down without a fight-

galwaygirl, i am kind of envious, I am due 11 days after u so if i go into labour that early it would be too early for a homebirth anyway, cos pre 37 weeks!!!!!! but seriously, best of luckand I hope u get one- is your midwife prepared to deliver uninsured? that is our only saving grace, that ours is, jsut got to persuade my DH and MIL!!!!

not so helpful advice i've got from my old doctor is if you are willing to take the risks involved in birhting at home then whey are u worried about insurance- hurrah for choice and faith in the female body's ability to birth and mind to choose intelligently!

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Original poster

SweetishP · 04/03/2008 16:00

oh lulumama, thanks will follow that lead up...

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Original poster

SweetishP · 05/03/2008 21:48

we are hitting the media in ireland about this issue- will be in papers next week and radio tomorrow

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Original poster

SweetishP · 07/03/2008 10:08

radio interview has led to immediate offer of meeting with the big boys in charge of the scheme at the HSE!!!!!

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galwaygal · 08/03/2008 20:09

SweetishP - I missed ther radio interview, but great news to hear that the HSE might finally be thinking about taking it seriously, just hope it is for real. Do you know which papers are covering the story next week?

Original poster

SweetishP · 08/03/2008 21:17

We were front page of the evening echo today in cork, will be in the Examiner mon or tues next week and still working on Indo and Times. do you do rollercoaster.ie cos we have letter template and petition links on the home birht section there

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