Sad/worried about c section /microbiome worries

[Rooandtwo]

Hello

So I feel like I’ve posted a lot recently as I have tried to cling to the hope of somehow getting to have a vaginal birth, or at least go into labour despite my baby presenting as breech at 38 weeks. Today I went for an attempted (but unsuccessful) ecv with who I believe was a very skilled consultant who was fantastic and has really helped me to start accepting that I will have a c section next week. He believes the reason the ecv failed may be due to a mildly heart shaped uterus or similar, and so I feel a little better just knowing that this is most likely a problem with me and not with the baby. I am not considering a vaginal breech birth because this is my first and I have found the evidence of increased risk in this department convincing.

One reason I think I’m struggling (abject fear of c section/cutting/surgery whilst awake aside) is that my mum had two very natural straightforward births with me and my brother. I’ve also spent time on hypnobirthing and a lot (in hindsight maybe too much) of research and now it feels like I can’t meet hardly any of the needs I have got into my head that my baby has. In particular, I’m so saddened by the research that suggests how a baby’s gut bacteria is compromised by c section and the time spent in hospital. I’m worried the recovery will compromise my ability to compensate for this loss, or to breast feed etc. I also know this is somewhat control freak/perfectionistic of me. I felt I could carry and birth my child largely independently and now to know I can’t do that has left me reeling.

I know all of this can be processed I’m just struggling to get there I suppose. It’s been a very tearful week. I hope this is my last support seeking post, it’s just become hard to find people who really understand. There’s a lot of ‘so long as the baby is healthy that’s all that matters’ noise around me, and I am of course so grateful for that and for the fact I have been able to carry my own child even. But this turn of events has really crushed my confidence so I still do sometimes worry something may be wrong. I also feel guilty for the ecv now it has been unsuccessful - but it felt that I had to do everything I could to get what I still feel would’ve been the baby’s best start in life. I have managed to accept that the experience of child birth was for me, and facing my fears of surgery is something I will of course do for the well-being of my baby, I am just still struggling to regain a comfortable perspective and not to feel so heartbroken at what, for me, feels like a lot of losses to what I hoped my child to have as an entry to the world.

I hope this makes sense to someone and doesn’t just sound like obsessive spiralling. As always, grateful for any replies. I really hope one day I’m someone who has supportive words to offer others here.

My eldest was a vaginal birth, and I hope my next one will be too. But my twins had to be c section at 34 weeks as they were really starting to struggle (shared placenta).

I did worry about initiating breastfeeding after a section - my eldest had her first feed before I delivered the placenta but that was an option with my tiny preemies that had to go into an incubator on a separate ward from me. It was trickier to establish feeding, but actually not much! You can hand express collostrum to help get things going after the birth - a midwife can show you how to do this if you ask them. It helps to up your supply quickly as the more your nipples are stimulated the more your body produces. My milk came in on day 3, so only about 12 hours later than it has for my first.

Biome-wise, I was reassured that as they will still have drunk amniotic fluid etc, they will still have some bacteria from you in their gut, and breastfeeding can help support this. Twins are now 2 and a half and you could tell how they were born at all.

Basically, I can see why you prefer a vaginal birth. I do too. But it's not worth losing sleep over, there will be MANY other choices that you will make that will encourage good health.

Hi OP

I have had both a vaginal birth and a c section.

Vaginal with my eldest and it didn't go well. I ended up with a terrible tear and being rushed to theatre, missing the first two hours of her life - first feed / getting her dressed / first cuddles etc.

This delivery was why I ultimately had a section second time around. I didn't really want to have it but decided to because on balance it was the safest and best option for us both.

Cesarean birth IS birth. You mention something about feeling you haven't done it fully. You absolutely have if you have a section. Whichever way this baby comes out there will be unpredictable bits, bits that go as you will have expected and bits that are more or less scary than you thought. At the end you will have your baby and will deserve to feel so incredibly proud of what you have done - whichever route to baby you take.

Re. Feeding - most hospitals have infant feeding experts onsite and they will assist you as much as you want and need with breastfeeding. Don't be afraid to call for help. They'll have seen it all before and will genuinely want to support you. I have friends who struggled with bf after vaginal births and others who found it clicked quickly after a section and vice versa. It's a bit of a cliche but it really is different for everyone.

Your lovely little baby will not be worse off for being born via c section. And yes the recovery is tough. Someone said to me before mine - week one you feel like you've been hit by a train. Week 2 you feel like you were hit by a car and then weirdly week 3 you start to feel a bit more normal. Make plans to have others do everything for you. Your only job is to recover and cuddle / feed your baby. There are lots of tips and tricks for being able to do bits yourself and get yourself a little "station" set up on the sofa - chocolate, drinks bottle, tv remote, feeding pillow, blanket for you and baby then get cosy and enjoy their lovely newborn smell.
Visitors only welcome when you are ready and for as long as you want them there. You may also wish to say they can only come in if they bring cake (something my husband added on to our rules 😂 turns out it was a great idea!)

Good luck - you're so nearly there and have done so so so well already. You'll nail this last bit and I hope you feel so proud of yourself for it x

I only realised about biome issues after I'd booked my c section for baby 3 (damaged after vaginal birth with baby 2). I was so upset but also terrified of the damage another vaginal birth could cause. Then the day after I read that, I read that boys born in August are the worst performers academically until their 20s! I was well narked, as I knew my baby was a boy and the op was booked first week of August. I went into the whole thing feeling a bit depressed and like it was my fault that I'd set him up to struggle before he'd even been born!

Anyway, now he is nearly 9, has had no more than the average childhood illnesses (less time off this school year than both his older siblings who came out the other way!) and is doing great at school. Please try not to worry yourself as I did and enjoy the last bit of your pregnancy and then your baby when he/she gets here.

Easy for me to say but honestly, you and baby will be fine.

A safe birth is the best kind of birth you can have.

Have a read of the positive birth book. She talks about how to have a positive c section and some of the mother centred, gentle section information sounds really nice.

She also talks about seeding. They take a swap of your vaginal wall to rub over the baby's face when it's born.

It is also perfectly ok to have all the feelings you're having. Anyone who says 'at least baby is healthy' is massively dismissing your feelings and missing the point.

It's ok to grieve for what you might not have. Now is the time to feel them, acknowledge them and then make a plan for going forward.

I understand. I had 2 emcs and last baby was planned CS. I was determined to have home births and did hypnobirthing too but none of them went to plan. I had the comments after including close relative saying well next time you can do it properly (i.e. vbac after my first) -they really did mean well but made me feel worse!
Anyway the sections really aren't that bad, especially when you can sleep prep beforehand. I was lucky to be able to ebf successfully until they were toddlers. And all of my 3 have strong constitutions and are rarely sick so hopefully the gut biome thing hasn't impacted too much.
Really try not to obsess over it, accept and relax as much as possible and enjoy meeting you baby soon.

My first was born by EMCS after a failed induction. He was very small for gestational age (2.7kg at 39+5) but I breastfed him for almost 16 months and he's now a stonkingly healthy two year old. I regret that I had a C-section for my own personal experience, and was delighted to have a successful VBAC 21 months later. But I don't think being born by C-section has had any negative impact on him at all.

OP, I was all set up for a home waterbirth, and ended up with a hospital EMCS - I did all the hypno birthing too, was convinced it would all be fine because my mum's births had been, but it all went to pot, and that was fine too the one thing you can guarantee is it won't go to plan.

All of these things are just the start in a long list of decisions you're going to be making for your child for probably the next 18 years or so. Each of them, in the grand scheme of things, pretty minor. A few things going wrong now will seem like nothing by the time they are 12, and you've had 1000 other little things go write (and probably some more go wrong)

Honestly. You need to try and step back and see this in the context of a lifetime - it will be fine.

I’ve had 2 c-sections. Both latched on the boob in recovery and had wonderful feeding journeys until I was ready to stop when they were 2 1/2.
this is the safest way to get your baby out and you haven’t failed at all. Good luck!

Saying "a happy and healthy baby etc" is not just noise.You'll see that one day.
But from experience of 3 breech sections,all 3 were very healthy,bf like champs and had normal colds,ear aches etc.I had a uterine septum that kept them breach,it couldn't be helped.
But go easy on yourself and enjoy the rest of pregnancy and the upcoming birth.You don't want to look back and only remember that you wanted the birth to have gone differently.

But there is the added benefit of not worrying about a Group B strep infection, cord round neck, meconium in waters etc, if you have a C Section. And try to remember that babies are born how they want to be, not how you want them to be. If you were desperately trying for a v birth but then ended up with an exhausting failed labour and emergency CS that would be far worse for you mentally and physically.

Elective c sections can be amazing and you'll be well prepared for it.

I had two sections, one emergency and one elective. We did have problems establishing breastfeeding with DC1 after the emergency section as my milk was slow to come in - so that’s worth keeping an eye on and considering whether they need a little formula (and I do mean a little) to tide them over if it takes more than a couple of days. I think in my case it was due to a long failed induction prior to the section.

DC2 latched on in recovery and breastfed like a dream from day 1.

I breastfed both to just shy of 3 and stopped in each case when I’d had enough. So sections definitely aren’t a bar to breastfeeding.

Definitely look at gentle sections - there are lots of nice things that can be included like your choice of music, lowering the drape so you can see baby being born (you don’t see the incision!) and so on.

Good luck!

If you are genuinely worried about baby's microbiome (I was too), look into vaginal seeding. Is it a bit weird in our society? Yes, but it would be worth it to me. Breastfeeding will help support baby's gut too.

Absolutely this. I've had three c sections all different births and honest to god it will be fine. I felt like you on my first I was very healthy and had zero health issues I didn't even have a regular gp at that time as I never needed one so I expected a textbook birth. That didn't happen on my first or my subsequent births but by the third I just expected a drama to happen (which sure enough it did). Having a good relationship with the medical team looking after you is essential. Mine are all in school and pre school now and happy and healthy children.

I had an emcs with twins and breast fed both successfully for over a year afterwards.

I hadn't read about vaginal seeding at the time - if I had I would def have done it, but actually, of my dc the c section ones seem to be less prone to sickness than the vbac.

Honestly - I do totally get it, I obsessed so much over stuff and over research he'd massively during my pregnancies. In hindsight I wish I'd placed more priority on relaxing and looking after myself more.

Also, I get the fear of c section. I was utterly petrified on having one, to the point that I pushed my attempt to birth my twins vaginally so far that the midwife had to be blunt and tell me we would all 3 die if I didn't agree to go for the section. And it really wasn't as bad as I expected, it was surprisingly fine once it got started. Like many things in life, the fear beforehand was a hundred times worse.

Good luck, it will be great.

'Over researched'

I had a c section. None of the things you mentioned were an issue at all. When I had the surgery I was so drugged up that I was as happy as a bee in clover - no fear, not bothered in the slightest. I’ve had much more traumatic experiences with some illnesses than I did with c section. I was only kept in hospital for 16 hours after the surgery. Baby had no health problems at all, and no problems going forward. I breastfed for three years.

I’ve never felt like I didn’t give birth either. If I didn’t give birth how come I have a child? Yeah he popped out of the sunroof instead of coming out of the door, but he’s always been unconventional. When they do the surgery they put a curtain over your middle, and I remember the surgeon lifting my baby up over the curtain like Simba in the Lion King, which is not a bad way to meet your child.

On the plus side my lady parts have remained tight with no tears and I don’t piss myself, because I haven’t pushed a baby out. There’s always a silver lining! My friend shit herself for nearly a year after she had a vaginal birth because she had a third degree tear, and I don’t envy that one bit. And frankly it’s a fucking miracle of modern science that my baby and I are both alive and healthy, because according to nature my failure to give birth naturally should have killed us both.

He did puke up a shitload of amniotic fluid in his first day though, because he wasn’t squashed by contractions which would have emptied his lungs. Just to make you aware because nobody told me about this!

Both mine were emergency sections. Dc1 who was also a Nicu baby has had one doctors visit in 8 years (A&E after cutting his head open doing something silly), is obnoxiously healthy, skinny and tall for his age. Dc2 is the same. I breastfed both without incident. They're basically never ill.

I watched dc2 arrive and it was amazing so I'd definitely recommend. I also had skin to skin with her virtually straight way which I imagine helped with the breastfeeding.

If it helps, my mum had a very straightforward birth with me, 4 hours from start to finish. With dc1, 75 hours after labour started he was still stuck mid pelvis. Unfortunately our mother's experiences don't always mirror ours.

OP, the amazing thing in your post is that modern medicine has uncovered an issue to your and your babies safety, and they have a solution which will safely deliver your baby and keep you from harm.

Of course a C-section isn't what many people would plan, but the outcome is incredible. And being an amateur genealogist I know first hand how not so long ago outcomes were much worse.

I'm sure knowledgeable people will be here to help with practical advice on how to make the section as positive for you and your baby as possible.

Your body has done an incredible job of looking after your baby, and you will carry that on when it's safely born.

I say this as someone who had an awful vaginal delivery, and a good one. There's no good or bad way to deliver, only the best way at the time given the circumstances faced.

Wishing you the best of luck, and hope you can find a way to come to a peaceful place with the delivery.

There are midwives who can help you through this if you reach out and explain. My friend suffered from pre birth depression.

Worth a chat.

I was a breech C-section baby and my microbiome is cool and I’m awesome 😎 . I was happy and healthy and your baby will be too!

Much love xx

@Prahdeepx I'm pleased you had a positive experience, but can we not have the 'at least I don't piss myself' or 'tight lady parts' comments.

They are so loaded with judgement and sexism. Pregnancy does a lot of the damage to pelvic floors.

Both my kids were born by section
1st emergency, 2nd planned but technically emergency as it was brought forward
Now almost 7 & 15, both rudely healthy despite having a mother who is immunocompromised.
Breastfeed both of them straight after sections at 36wks, although no.2 was easier than no1 (I suspect that was confidence on my part), neither had a prolonged stay in hospital - the stay in hospital was dictated by my health (I have a chronic health condition) not theirs as they were fine.
Recoveries from sections were good & you can only see the scar if you are looking for it.
For me it was the safe and probably the only way mine were coming out and genuinely that's all that matters
Baby's come in a number of ways, rarely how we plan for them - it's easy to worry, it's a scary time but it's also an amazing time don't forget that. Although it feels like the be all and end all right now it really won't matter to your baby when they get here or in their future and one of side benefits is that when it comes to that first awkward talk later in life about how babies come out .....it's so easy to say they came out the sunroof 😉

So much agree

Your feelings are understandable, I think you will find this podcast incredibly helpful as it talks about exactly the issues of emotions around not being able to have a vaginal birth...
https://open.spotify.com/episode/36EfgW0an9G6rvSJTCJjoN?si=WvB_ab5RTgyQ5SB7KdG_Zg

It doesn't address the microbiome aspect, but it covers all the rest really well.