ELCS due to not wanting to have vaginal pain AFTER birth?

[Dexter77]

I’m currently deciding between an ELCS and a VB with epidural. I don’t believe in enduring pain that’s unnecessary and always assumed I’d have an ELCS as I think it’s a great and safe option, but now wonder whether the latter would be preferable. What’s holding me back from attempting VB is the prospect of weeks/months of pain in vaginal area after birth, as well as the fact that postnatal aftercare of birth injuries seems to be woefully inadequate in the UK with long waiting times and insufficient support.

I’d be fine with temporary pain during birth but find the prospect of having vaginal pain for so long totally unacceptable - not even to mention other potential complications such as prolapse and incontinence.
I suppose I’m asking whether it’ll be a given to have vaginal/perineal pain AFTER the birth with VB of normal sized babies (no reason to assume mine will be big).
Keen also to hear from women who had a pain free birth but pain afterwards and how they found it.

PS: And yes, I know there’ll be pain from having an ELCS after birth, but I just know I’ll cope better with having pain in abdomen than in genital area.

You will recover from all surgery more quickly if you are in good shape. The surgery will also be more safe if there aren't other health issues which often go hand in hand with being over weight (blood pressure, heart rate etc).

Recovering from a c section is much more quick if you are able to get up and about as quickly as possible. So hobbling about on the day after and then gradually building up your activity day by day makes the recovery faster (obviously don't push it!). You will find this moving about easier if the rest of you is in good nick!

Good luck whatever you decide.

Of course I wasn’t happy with forceps and tears but no matter how “unacceptable” they may be I could hardly hop in my time machine and go back in time for a c-section. What I’m trying to say is that you may have complications and pain (you will have some pain no matter what) but sitting there saying it’s unacceptable when it’s happened is useless. You’re trying to pre-empt every out come which just isn’t possible.

Clearly you have a lot of issues, I wish you well though and I hope you have a safe and easy delivery no matter what.

And I think when your own comments are the ones being deleted it’s time to have a think about your attitude…

I've had both a vaginal birth and 10 days ago I had an ELCS. My section was the most incredible experience, I would do it all again in a heartbeat! My vaginal was a different story and have been left with a rectocele prolapse. Wasn't prepared to potentially make it worse with another vaginal delivery so opted for an ELCS and I'm so glad I did! The theatre staff took some amazing pics that I'll treasure forever. Good luck with whatever you choose to do! X

@Prettybubblesintheair

Of course I wasn’t happy with forceps and tears but no matter how “unacceptable” they may be I could hardly hop in my time machine and go back in time for a c-section. What I’m trying to say is that you may have complications and pain (you will have some pain no matter what) but sitting there saying it’s unacceptable when it’s happened is useless. You’re trying to pre-empt every out come which just isn’t possible.

Clearly you have a lot of issues, I wish you well though and I hope you have a safe and easy delivery no matter what.

And I think when your own comments are the ones being deleted it’s time to have a think about your attitude…

I don’t have any issues babes. I don’t get why you still can’t accept that I CAN pre-empt some things in childbirth. All women can if they want to. You just don’t like that. Maybe you’re the one with the issues?

I also think a lot of people don’t realise just how hard recovery from a c-section can be. It is major surgery, if you already have a child then looking after two when you’ve had major surgery is no joke. My 4th was my c-section and looking after a brevity and my other three was incredibly hard going. Much harder than recovering from a vb. it’s also worth me saying that despite the difficulties I had giving birth I don’t have any lasting damage. I honestly couldn’t give a hoot how you have your baby but a c-section isn’t a guaranteed easy birth.

Ok so say you have a c-section with complications. You’re left with ptsd and long lasting damage and you’re in agony unable to lift your baby for 6 weeks. That’s unacceptable to you. Then what?

@Prettybubblesintheair

I also think a lot of people don’t realise just how hard recovery from a c-section can be. It is major surgery, if you already have a child then looking after two when you’ve had major surgery is no joke. My 4th was my c-section and looking after a brevity and my other three was incredibly hard going. Much harder than recovering from a vb. it’s also worth me saying that despite the difficulties I had giving birth I don’t have any lasting damage. I honestly couldn’t give a hoot how you have your baby but a c-section isn’t a guaranteed easy birth.

Just listen to yourself. I haven’t said a section is a “guaranteed easy birth”. Just read the thread! Why are you wasting my time? What do you want? You’re literally imagining things and are talking to yourself.

@Prettybubblesintheair

Ok so say you have a c-section with complications. You’re left with ptsd and long lasting damage and you’re in agony unable to lift your baby for 6 weeks. That’s unacceptable to you. Then what?

Then I’ll still be glad my genital area is intact and pain free.

Hi all

Please can we have a bit of peace and love on this thread?
It's clear that things are getting heated, but please bear in mind that the sole purpose of Mumsnet is to make parent's lives easier.

@picketingpanic

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Lol. You sound like you need help. It must be hard for you to watch other women pursue things you didn’t dare imagine for yourself.

I just wanted to add to mine. For me the other major benefit of a child was not having to be in hospital for very long.

With my first, he was born at 9:30pm and we were home by lunch time the next day. I didn't have to go to the ward and tbh I think they only kept me in because it was nearly midnight once all the checks were done.

With my second she was born at 5:30am and I was home by 11am that day.

For me a c section would be needlessly putting myself through major surgery. I have no lasting damage from my birth (or pregnancy. I can jump all day long if I want) no big scar on my tummy, nothing.

Yes going home quickly was a massive benefit to me. 3 children and the longest I was in hospital after giving birth with any of them was 6 hours. That’s also one of the reasons I didn’t want an epidural… I didn’t want to have to go to the postnatal ward if I could help it.

I opted for a CS in my second pregnancy. My VB was "textbook" according to the midwives.

It took over a month for my body to recover from it and for me to be able to stand up straight and walk properly. I got told to have a bath and take paracetamol. I could barely hold and lid my child.

As for the actual labour, alI remember was being told my pain relief i repeatedly begged for would come in "just a minute", then after waiting hours and being fobbed off I finally lost it with the midwife and they said it was too late for painkillers. Great!

Based on that I opted for a C-Section and was booked in for one. I ended up going into labour at 36 + 6 and having an EMCS anyway.

I was up walking within hours. I had painkillers, PROPER actual painkillers that worked because paracetamol is, frankly, shit. I could lift and hold my baby and feed them comfortably. I was up and out most days and could cook, clean etc. The wound barely hurt because I had actual meds that worked and healed well as i was able to take care of it. Minus the wound healing time I felt recovered enough within one week.

Just giving a different perspective. You need to do what you think is best for you and your baby. No amount of horror stories or even stories like mine should sway you one way or another.

Oh dear

Best of luck op.

You asked about bonding after my great sections: it was great. I had an overwhelming bond both times instantly. No hint of even baby blues, and a sense of euphoria.

Re fitness: I'm unfit, quite fat and normally take ages to heal from things. My recovery was days rather then weeks.

I was discharged after 24hrs with all 4 of my births, that's 2 VBs and 2 CS

It sounds as if you want an ELCS, I've read all your posts (but not all the replies) and it certainly comes across that way.

A couple of points have made me curious and I'm wondering about a few things that might be relevant.

Firstly you've had a premature vaginal birth and it was a negative experience for you, not painful but you didn't feel in control and you weren't able to hold your baby for a long time afterwards. (Sorry to hear that, I hope your DC is healthy and thriving now.) I wonder if you had any birth injuries at all? Any vaginal pain afterwards?

I understand that your baby was tiny and perhaps you feel that it doesn't really "count" as a vaginal birth, since you didn't birth a full term, full size baby, but I would argue that it is very relevant. From everything I've read and heard, and from my own experience, first time births are almost always more difficult than subsequent births, and subsequent births are more likely to be straightforward. Your body has already birthed one baby so it will be able to birth another more easily, irrespective of size. Of course there is always a risk of complications and injury, and I understand that you want to avoid it.

Secondly this might be a bit of a random question but I wonder if you have vulvodynia? As you mentioned pain when inserting a tampon.

Lastly I found this comment interesting
"I think I would resent my child for life if I had a major vaginal injury. The fact that these are relatively common shows that our bodies are in fact not ‘designed’ for birth."
I strongly disagree with this point. I think our bodies ARE designed for birth. I don't know what the evidence shows about the reasons for birth injuries, but if I was to hazard a guess, I would think that there are several factors (including the medicalisation of birth, chronic shortages of staffing and funding in the NHS, and - among some HCPs, not all - a lack of respect for the woman's autonomy and right to control her own birth).

I have two children, both born vaginally. DC2 (home birth) was much more straightforward than DC1 (hospital birth). When pregnant with DC1 I was scared of having a tear or episiotomy, I did have an episiotomy and swelling, and it was very painful for several weeks afterwards, but healed ok (took several months to be able to have sex without pain). With DC2 I did have a small tear and it was painful for a few days but less so and it healed more quickly.

Having said all that, it's irrelevant really, as if you want an ELCS, that's a perfectly valid and understandable choice.

Tbh I don't blame you. If I'd had a section I'd have had about a fifth of the amount of stitches I had for my vaginal birth. If it was an elective I'd have ended up with considerably less PTSD and subsequent therapy for it as well.

If I was to have another (and I won't, due to the above), I would have an elective CS without even questioning it.

I've had four children only one tear that was my first, a few days a little bit uncomfortable and then fully healed and back to normal, I literally had no pain on the next 3 as I didn't tear and was up walking about straight after giving birth. You are more likely to be in pain after a c section than a vaginal birth!

[quote Dexter77]@mummyh2016 haha no I’m not treating an ELCS “like a spa treatment”, what a ludicrous thing to say.
I just know it comes with much more certainty than a VB and I’m simply not prepared to be fobbed off after sustaining vaginal birth trauma and potentially having pain for ages in my body’s most sensitive area.

And btw yes I am going private, for exactly the same reasons, not willing to accept that “I’m not guaranteed an epidural” and similar misogynist nonsense.[/quote]
This is why people are thinking you are blinkered with your idea of Csections. It does not come with much more certainty. You obviously want a c section and that's absolutely fine no point in the post really as you shot anyone down who disagrees with you.
Whilst obviously some women do suffer from VB injuries. You almost say it like it is a guarantee. It's not the case at all. I have had two and didn't have much pain after a couple of days. After my second I literally walked out the hospital after 6 hours of giving birth. Similar experiences for my mum and sisters. I believe it's about 4% of women who suffer from 3/4 degree tears when giving birth.

I have a friend who had two ELCS, the first was very straightforward and the second wasn't, she said it was scary and the recovery was more difficult.

So yes ELCS is not without risk. But I can see the appeal of a planned, more controlled procedure. Probably best option if you are not comfortable with the less predictable nature of a VB.

OP, you say you're fine with a CS because your genitals will be intact.

I along with a couple of others on this thread had massive problems 'down there,' after my section, but it seems like you don't want to hear it.

And you'd resent your child if you had those problems? That's not right and you need some help in addressing that. You cannot predict mental health and who's to say you will or won't resent your child if you have CS complications.

(Please don't come back with a rude reply like you have done with others,) and I mean this kindly. You're really underestimating CS's.

[quote Dexter77]@EgonSpengler2020 A CS is a 10-20 minute routine surgery that happens every day in a calm controlled manner and perfectly safe. I’d prefer not to have a scar on my abdomen but would rather have abdominal surgery than major vaginal injury.[/quote]
No surgery is perfectly safe.

@NameChange30 and @user345678 if I just “wanted” an ELCS I’d just go ahead and have one. I know some women on here start threads on ELCSs because they need the approval of others in this choice, but I certainly didn’t start this thread for this.

I started this thread to enquire about honest experiences regarding injury and pain after VB, from people who aren’t ideologically pro VB no matter what and not anti elective sections either. Some of you have shared v helpful experiences on both fronts, others have started convulsing because I’ve expressed that I don’t see why I should have vaginal birth trauma. Guess that was to be expected.

I don’t think having given birth vaginally to a baby with the head the size of an easy peeler is a very useful reference in deciding whether to attempt a VB this time with a term baby or not. I’m not sure people can imagine how small such a baby is, understandably. I think the difference is huge. To answer your question, no, I didn’t have any vaginal pain in my last birth, or after. But I find even basic internal examinations unbearable and simply don’t want to have pain in this area.

I don’t think I have a condition in the realm of hyper vaginal sensitivity, I’m probably more sensitive than others, but it’s also just a question of attitude: I don’t see why I should have a particular kind of pain I want to avoid, or be injured in such a sensitive area. Others seem to believe this is part and parcel of motherhood. I disagree.

I don’t think our bodies are “designed” for birth at all. If they were, childbirth pain wouldn’t be this horrific, there wouldn’t be injuries, or deaths. But it is and there are.

I would prefer if I had a VB without any significant pain during or after. Given that several people on this thread have claimed this was their experience, I will discuss with my consultant how this might possibly be achieved. If this cannot be achieved, I would prefer an elective section. Contrary to what some extremely judgmental people have claimed on this thread, I am fully aware of the risks involved and find them totally acceptable.