Wished I'd known more......

[Willow2]

This is a continuation of a line of thought I was having in Childbirth - Not as bad as I thought it would be - which I thought should continue elsewhere! First time mums to be might not want to read on.

First off - I had a horrendous birth. Still the stuff of nightmares 2 and half years on. Don't want to go in to detail now. Maybe one day.
Afterwards my aunt said to me "welcome to the biggest secret in the world". And she was right. Up until that point all I had ever heard was that yes, childbirth hurt like hell but the wonderful thing was that the minute the baby was born it all stopped and within days you'd be hard pressed to remember what it felt like and isn't nature wonderful etc. etc.

Since then I have heard more horror stories than I would ever have thought possible. The point I am trying to make is that, had I been aware of some of these, I would have chosen different options during the course of my ds birth and would not have suffered anyway near as much as a result. Additionally, I think if more fuss was made of the "horror stories" they might not be as frighteningly commonplace as they are - because either I have a really unlucky circle of acquaintances or standards are nowhere near as high as they should be out there. Instead the view is that we should all sit quietly and not scare anyone. It's almost as if we've all (medical profession included) become so fixated on the fact that people give birth every day that we daren't admit just how dangerous it can be.

Having said that, I would no more sit down and tell some heavily pregnant first timer what I went through than stick needles in her eyes. Yet surely the only way you can have an "informed" birth is if you are aware of both sides of the coin? And surely if you are aware of the bad then you can take steps to limit it?

Anyway, it's late and I'm rambling.

Monkey and Crunchie, I've never been accused of being part of a conspiracy before. Actually, I wasn't lying when I said giving birth wasn't unbearable agony and wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. And I'm not trying to claim it didn't hurt or was a beautiful experience (definately not!). What I was trying to do was reassure anyone who is about to give birth and is terrified, that it is not inevitable that it will feel like some form of medieval (however it's spelt) torture. However, I do appreciate that some people have awful experiences and they do have my sympathy. I would hate to think I made anyone feel inadequate or guilty for having pain relief, for example. I was lucky, not brave, or in anyway superior to anyone else. I do agree with you about hospitals, though.

It's not really a conspiracy but I'd feel really guilty about telling a 1st time pregnant mother what my labours were like.

I was the first to give birth out of a group of 7 in my antenatal class & one of the mothers asked me what it was like. My reply was something along the lines of "no comment"! Later, the mother agreed with me that it was the best thing to say. Especially after we'd all swapped gory details!

I would never say that it wasn't bad but I'd probably hedge round it. I delivered large babies which made my 1st labour particularly difficult - not everyone would have this problem.

Sorry if the "medieval torture" comment sounded flippant. I'm not trying to make light of anyone's sufferings. I was trying to find a phrase to express the horrendous pain that some (but not all!!!) people experience and that I expected, and was very relieved not to feel.

Agree with some of the comments made about dreadful conditions in hospital too.... no food available after a 48 hour labour; kitchen staff who'd throw a piece of cold toast and butter on a tray at you and, when you asked for a plate, look at you as if you were mad. Same kitchen staff who would come and take the breakfast away if you hadn't eaten it in half an hour as you were too busy trying to establish breastfeeding and they "needed the tray back" even though they were only based ten yards away. Someone else's blood clot blocking up the bath waste for over a week despite numerous complaints. No pillows. Etc Etc. Agency midwives on the night shift who, having been told to give you ever help possible with establishing breastfeeding, did sweet FA. And all this at supposedly a flag ship hospital. And that's aside from the horrendous birth. Am I bitter? To bloody right I am.

That reminds me - Oh how horrible it's all coming back to me now - me post epidural unable to walk with catheter still in - shut up in my little room with brand new dd - no clue what to do if she cried - I certainly couldn't get to her ! Darling babe slept all night though !

Then self-serve breakfast and no mw in sight to ask for help - was I to wheel babe and catheter to kitchen to get breakfast or do I risk kidnapping by leaving babe in room ? Ended up standing by door looking so worried that another mum went and fetched me some tea and toast !

Then - no advice what to do with babe when in loo or showering - ended up blithely leaving her in my room where no-one would have heard her cry or noticed if she was being kidnapped !

And - why can't dad's come in at any time !!

Now I've relived that I'm cross all over again !

Oh yes - and the bloody rude kitchen staff !!

Oh I agree with the "medieval torture" comment - I can't believe that in this day and age we've not come up with an easy, pain free way to give birth!!

Self serve breakfast - fine by me. It was only there when I had DS2 so I was happy to leave him quietly sleeping in my room whilst I ate my breakfast. Not sure I'd have left my PFB (Precious First Born) though. It was the cushionless chairs in the breakfast room that got me!! Ouch!

Re Visiting : with DS1, dads could visit pretty much any time (got chucked out at night though) but when DS2 was born in the same hospital, it had all changed.

The staff in the hospital where I had dd were fantastic, with one or two exceptions. We wee on the special care ward, and I think that made a difference, from talking to other mums - we could put our babies in the nursery at night but on the ordinary wards, although this was possible in practise, in reality there was no-one around to look after them. Agree about the foul food though- fortunately there was a lot of fast food on site so dh kept be going with baguettes!

My friends daughter is now pregnant and has asked me what it's like! All I could say is that all three of my births were very different, the second was by far the worst, which made me petrified of having number three, which was then the easiest and the best. I have advised her to learn all she can as I think that knowing what is happening to your body can stop a lot of panic. I went into shock after no2, I did think I was dying as I had given birth before and this didn't happen then. Horrid experience. I wish someone would have told me that I might not immediatley fall head over heels in love. I did second time but just felt numb after the first. I still think that its the most fantastic thing in the world tho', all of a sudden there is another person in the room and they didn't come in thru the door. The midwife who delivered my 2nd had worked for a while in Africa was then quite old, but when all was calm and I was feeling ok, I noticed she was a bit teary, I asked why and she said 'it doesn't matter how many times I see it, the birth of a healthy child is always a miracle' Getting quite emotional myself now and maybe a little bit broody!

ionesmum - if losing control helps then I'm all for it, although am unsure how staff on special care ward would take it if it became derigeur. (Is that how you spell that word - it looks wrong and can't do spellcheck online, or if I can don't know how to).

a few reassuring words to let me know that I would cope may have helped get over some of my fears - although I was so terrified that I'm not sure I'd have believed them!

I wish someone had told me with first pregnancy to be prepared to do little but breastfeed in the first few weeks - they never mentioned this at ante-natal classes! With second baby because I was induced there was little time for pain relief (had epidural first time) so I wish I had known that the feeling I was getting to do a poo was a sign I was ready to push. When I told the midwives this all hell broke loose. One good piece of advice I had been given was no matter what keep upright and moving and this helped alot.

Oh, dear, I should have scrolled down a bit further and found this thread before I contributed above to 'labour not so bad ...'
I can't tell you how delighted I am to read these stories. I've never met anyone else who had a baby lying back-to-back (I too spent the whole of my second pregnancy on all fours). I didn't know my first baby was like that till partway through the labour so I was stunned by how labour went (or didn't ...) No one had warned me about that.
And so many other things that you're all writing here...
As I've said in the other thread, I really believe we need honesty, true information from both sides of the story. Knowledge is power. There were many things I could have known that might have helped first time round if anyone had been honest with me. It is possible to tell a first-time pregnant friend the truth with sensitivity. It's kinder than lying to them. Also, as I've also said above, we need sensitive 'debriefing' sessions afterwards, to talk through what happened, whether bad or good, and not just try to forget it. It was only when I read Kate Figes' Life After Birth that I found other women had had flashbacks after labour for some time. We need to be able to talk it through, establish with the staff what happened, as so much of labour can be a blur, to understand and clear it from our minds so we can move on.
I certainly recognise the days my two were born as some of my best days, because at the end I got my delicious children, but did I 'enjoy' labour ... oh, shall I laugh or cry at the suggestion?!

Reading Inkpen's post has just made me remember that I was only told that DS1 was "back-to-back" when my GP came to visit me a few days after the birth and said "Oh, a ??? birth - that's the most painful" I can't remember the technical term he used.

On a lighter note, I remember reading my birth plan afterwards and having a snigger at how niaive a lot of it was but I loved the bit that said "I'd like to be able to choose my own positions". The position I chose in the end was at the foot of the bed, wimpering! It's pretty much the only bit of that labour I can smile at.

Throughout my pregnancy I thought "how difficult can it be?". I really thought that, as we'd been doing it for centuries, it would be a breeze. I wish someone had given me a shake and said "get real!".

And, much as I love my 2 children, I can't say I view their birth days as anything close to my best days. A few days after maybe but not the actual day

Has anyone noticed a recent trend towards breaking the 'conspiracy of silence' in the media and a backlash against natural birth techniques? I can sympathise with the earlier comment about the futility of birth plans (not one wish came true ...) and my labour bag packed with lavender oil, relaxing music etc etc never had a chance to make an appearance. In Spain there is no pain relief except epidural - my first baby was over 10lbs and stuck firmly - 44 hours of labour ending in a emergency caesarean wasn't what all my rosy eyed reading about yoga, breathing and relaxing visualisations had led me to expect! By the end I just didn't care how they got this baby out and though I would never lie to someone asking what labour is really like (I find myself saying 'It's amazing how quickly you forget ...' I would tell anyone set on a natural birth to be very open minded. If it's any indication my husband unforgettably said that he never wants to go through labour again!

Inkpen what you said has definately struck a chord with me.I had flashbacks after the birth of my first born.Dh had made some comment about the amount of blood, which after having a v large baby who was also back to back,contributed to the flashbacks.I mentioned them to the midwife who made me feel slightly better when she jokingly said they wouldn't section me just yet!What a marvelous idea to have a de briefing session after the birth.I was so out of it with pethadine I missed lots of details.With my second birth I insisted they gave me not so strong a dose of pethadine and was a lot more aware of what was going on.First time round I was so out of it I was dozing between contractions and even talking giberish.

Willow2 - I agree - just telling horror stories alone are no use as they just serve to scare people. Every labour is so different its probably pointless for each women to go into detail. However if you know more about how for example your baby is lying then perhaps you could find out more about the possible problems.

I had fairly easy births but there are some things that would have helped to make things easier. Feeling that you are in control of the situation makes a big difference. And that to some extent means knowing what is happening. I too had the "well I didn't want to tell you how much it would hurt" from a friend. It is silly to keep something like this secret. I feel antenatal classes should prepare you better.

I read somewhere that midwives are no longer able to be so proactive in pregnancy and labour by doing things such moving a breech baby before birth. Medical intervention seems to be becoming more commonplace. I don't know if that is because it helps with a possible painful birth or if it just makes the birth easier for the medical staff because they can predict easier what is going to happen. Any thoughts on this mears?

I can add no further comment to what's been said already other than to try to think of the aftermath i.e life post-birth. I had been so preoccupied with getting through labour that it didn't even occur to me that I might experience difficulty in performing the most simple tasks after the arrival of DS e.g. walking when you have a bottom that resembles a bunch of grapes (those who have been there know what I am talking about!) Anyway, my birth gift to all of my new mother-type frineds is now always a big bag of salt (the bigger the better)and a small bottle of lavender oil - both for bathing, and its something that I wish someone had told me first time round!

I'm another one who had a back to back labour and didn't find out until during labour. Also had flashbacks for some time. The amount of blood was truly shocking, and the episiotomy the final blow to a horibble experience all round. I would say the day we went home from hospital was the best day of my life. I had had the worst 6 days with a jaundiced ds and sitting on a breast pump at all hours, battling with midwives over formula.
No-one told me how bad it could be, apart from one friend, who when I asked her what to expect she said 'Just get through it, and make sure you and your baby live'. At the time I thought she was being dramatic, but those words came ringing in my ears during labour and I was grateful for them. Most of my contemporaries have gone on to have their second child. I only now (ds is nearly 3) feel ready and I'm certain its because of my horrid experience.

On the subject of babies lying back to back, has anyone got any advice on the best way to encourage the baby to move? My friends's baby is now 2 days overdue and she's just found out that it is lying against her back. She has been told to crawl around as much as she can. Sorry, i know it's not's really the subject of this thread but thouht some of you have some advice/experience of this. Thanks.

I'm no expert, but yes, I was also told to stay on all fours a lot the second time round. At least if your friend knows beforehand she and the staff will be ready for it. I gather (maybe others can confirm or deny?) that back-to-back labours mean you have pain throughout - you don't get the break between contractions in the earlier stages. That's frightening if you've read all the stuff about labour building up slowly and about breathing through and waiting for the relief inbetween; I certainly panicked because I wondered why it was so bad so continuously and so quickly. But with good pain relief it can be managed. I had an epidural as soon as I arrived in the labour ward as I wasn't even very dilated.
Jessi, I was interested by your comment because I had the same experience. Only one friend had given me an unvarnished account of her labour (I always like the bit where she was on the floor wailing and her anaesthetist said, 'You want to howl, you howl, darling' as the epidural went in!) because she had her child a good year before I even got pregnant. In labour it was her that I remembered and that gave me a bit more courage because I suppose it meant that there wasn't something dreadfully wrong about me for having such a bad time. I also, though, did keep remembering that bit in Gone with the Wind when Melanie screams and clutches the bedposts while Atlanta burns, and wondering why I was in the same position when we have surely moved on a bit, in medical terms, from the American Civil War days ...

As well as being on your hands and knees it is important to be supported upright/leaning forward when sitting. Modern comfortable chairs and sofas ecourage you to fall back into them which in turn encourages a baby to adopt a back to back position. This is because the pelvis is tipped backwards. Any position that encourages the pelvis to tip forward helps the baby rotate out of being back to back (OP - occipito-posterior).

I bought a large, inflatable "Mega Fun Ball" from the Early Learning Center and spent a long time leaning over that. I watched TV like that in the evening etc etc. I decorated my skirting boards too, swept things up on my hands & knees with a dustpan rather than use a broom... I also always tried to sleep on my left side as someone told me this was better than the right for some reason!!

Compared to my 1st pregnancy where I lolled on the sofa like Lady Muck with my feet up...

I also had a OP baby with a 24 hr labour followed by c-section. I spent most of that time lying on a hospital bed - perhaps I should have been told to crawl around on the floor during that time and maybe could have avoided the section, who knows?

I certainly won't be lolling around on the sofa next time, that's for sure - I like the Mega Fun Ball idea, Soupdragon!

Thanks for the advice. I'm sure my firend is slouching in a sofa right at this minute!! I'll ring and tell her to sit up/forward. She also has several fibroids which were undecected when she concieved. She has been closely monitored throughout the pregnancy but do others have experience of a natural birth with fibroids or does it usually end with a c-cection? At the moment she is hoping for a natural birth as the fibroids are quite high up and therefore not blocking the babie's passage out.