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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

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Original poster

By the time my kids start school, my birth choices will matter about as much as my O-level results.

55 replies

beansprout · 28/09/2007 15:24

Is the conclusion that a friend and I came to over lunch yesterday. And I say that as someone who is 22 weeks preg and deliberating over whether or not to have a c-section or not.

Anyone have a view on this?

OP posts:

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Cappuccino · 28/09/2007 15:26

yes you're right

thank goodness someone else is old enough to know what O levels are

ahundredtimes · 28/09/2007 15:43

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly.

Also at that point you will laugh in a hollow knowing way at the idea of birth choices and you will acknowledge that really it is all means to an end.

hanaflower · 28/09/2007 15:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

harpsichordcarrier · 28/09/2007 15:47

no, I would absolutely disagree with that.
I am studying for a diploma in antenatal education and have read a lot of research about the effect of the birth experience on women. the fact is that a woman's experience of birth often has an ongoing effect on her experience of parenting and (whether good or bad) it is a formative experience which many many women remember with great clarity even 50 or 60 years later.

allthegearnoidea · 28/09/2007 15:54

I tend to disagree, there is no way you can go through childbirth and it not have some kind of impact, it's too big a deal! Eventhough the outcome is still a baby, if choices are limited/ out of your control and you don't have a good birth experience then that does affect you, you may not realise it though!

ahundredtimes · 28/09/2007 15:56

Yes, but o'levels mattered at the time didn't they? They influenced what A levels you could do, or whether you were going to stay in school.

I don't think this means necessarily that the kind of birth you have doesn't matter at all. I just kind of think that as time passes you realize it is means to an end, and that the person who emerged and continues to emerge matters more than the birth itself.

Theclosetpagan · 28/09/2007 16:00

Agree providing whatever occured at birth was not traumatic to Mum or Baby. Trauma can be psychological as well as physical and WILL have an impact.

harpsichordcarrier · 28/09/2007 16:01

yes but it still matters, to lots of women.
i hear other people's birth stories all time and the pent up emotions are very strong

ahundredtimes · 28/09/2007 16:04

Oh now you see I dispute the idea that a bad birth necessarily has to affect you forever.

I accept that it does linger about for a bit, but then you realize that really that is all done with now and over with, and you get on with the parenting and having a jolly time.

That's what I did anyway!

harpsichordcarrier · 28/09/2007 16:07

I am not saying everyone is affected by it for a long period, of course not. it depends on the individual. but birth is incredibly powerful emotionally, imo.
good experiences can have lasting effects too.

ahundredtimes · 28/09/2007 16:10

Yes, it is very powerful, I agree, and a traumatic birth can take an age to shake off. It is truly a shocking thing to have one - or two (I might just share my birth stories now and start weeping and completely reverse my position ) - but I suppose I'm taking the o'level comparison very literally - it matters at the time.
Things move on.
You realize - or tell yourself very very sternly - that it was bad luck and a bit grim, but what is ahead matters more.
You graduate university, you think, crikey why did I get myself in such a state about that physics o'level?

ahundredtimes · 28/09/2007 16:13

Though, I do like to think that if you have lovely births then THAT is allowed to hang around forever.

I went to see a friend recently who had a home birth, and the room was all white and she had candles and they were both so lovely and happy, and I thought, yes, this is perfect, I would want to hang onto this if it were my birth.

So, HC, you're right actually. I take it back. BUT it works for me to say, no, no, let's forget all that and have a good time in the here and now.

Crikey, this has been good. Is like therapy.

mumfor1standfinaltime · 28/09/2007 16:20

I had awful experience with birth/antenatal care of ds (won't bore everyone, but em c section) and it is still 'with me' now and he is 2.5 and it always will be, it has changed me.

I have days where I really think about it and I upset myself about it. I have to be strong and say to myself 'its ok now, you have ds and he is beautiful'.
It is hard though. And it did put me off thinking about having more children.

DaisyMOO · 28/09/2007 16:28

There is increasing evidence that experiences in utero, during birth and in the first year of life can have a life-long effect. Michel Odent has written a number of books about this and the research he's collected together here makes very interesting reading. Autism for instance has been linked with complications during labour and birth.

lulumama · 28/09/2007 16:31

link to thread about birth trauma

i agree with harpsi

birth is more than one or two days out of your life

it has a dramatic effect on a woman's ( and often the fathers' ) psyche too

a bad birth can change your life in ways you never thought possible, as can a good birth

it can have repercussions on your mental health, your sex life , your life in general

if women stop asking for the birth they want, if they presume that they have no rights, that birth plans and preferences are worthless, then the medical profession will happily agree and have us all labouring on their terms and it will be one size fits all

if i had not had a bad birth first, i would not have appreciated how amazing my second birth was, and would not be doing what i do now, so i am thankful now, 8 years later, but at the time it was crap.

birth is not just a means to an end , imo

edam · 28/09/2007 16:34

They won't matter much if you are OK with them, even if things do get complicated. But they will matter to you if, God forbid, anything went very wrong and you weren't treated very well. People recover better from traumatic experiences if they were treated with respect during whatever the trauma was.

And a good birth experience can be something that stays with you, too.

I hate the dismissive attitude that some health professionals - and friends and family - have. 'Oh, you've got your baby, stop moaning'. Just an excuse to ignore real suffering.

hunkermunker · 28/09/2007 16:35

I agree with Harpsi.

I also think people who say "you can't tell which one was breastfed/weaned early/hit on head with shovel daily when they start primary school" should be hit on the head with a shovel. It's belittling.

ahundredtimes · 28/09/2007 16:38

But edam they are right. It would be mad if I still allowed a truly terrible birth ten years ago to affect my life now? Wouldn't it?

I think it would. But dh always says that my emotional decade is the 1940s. As in, acknowledge the horror, say it was awful, accept it for what it was, and move on.

lulumama · 28/09/2007 16:41

but it can affect you for years, and that is why birth trauma counselling exists

women can get PTSD after a really terrible birth

or it can be that it is not even that awful, but you feel it affected you deeply

and that dismissive attitude makes me

i was at the receiving end of it, cue years of hideous PND and a 6 year gap between children

Tamum · 28/09/2007 16:42

Oh, Edam's point is a good one. I was just reading this and wondering why I was so untraumatised by ds's birth, and thinking that maybe it was because I never had very high expectations, but I think that's it. I was treated with respect and kindness throughout, and that's why I've always been OK. Damn, I thought it was my inner resilience.

3andnomore · 28/09/2007 16:47

hm...whilst I can see where you are coming from beansprout...I think it does belittles the experience greatly....

I had a traumatic time the last time, and ys is 3 years old now, and there are still days where I suddenly think about it and it all comes back to me and many a times I question myself in my behaviour towards ds and his behaviour to me, and wonder about the links to the Birth experience...something I never did after my previous Birth experiences, which were mostly positive and I came away from unscarred, iykwim...

Original poster

beansprout · 28/09/2007 16:50

I had a traumatic time last time which has had a lasting effect on me. I didn't say "what I had for dinner last night" and completely dismiss the whole experience, I chose exam results as something significant that does have repercussions but not as something that has defined my whole life even though it felt like that at the time!

OP posts:

3andnomore · 28/09/2007 16:51

Edam very good point, and tamum, too...after ebing so effected by ys Birth ,. I had to ask myself just why I was so effected by it, as with es I had a bit of a traumatic time (i.e. he had turned around and wrapped himself into the cord and I had a painful deep internal to turn him, and was told I may have to have forceps, and won't be able to get any painrelief, ther then the gas and air I was using...), but the treatment I received that time was respectful and I didn't really have any expectation...I wanted a natural Birth, but was willing to go with the flow completely, whichever it took...whilst with ys I knew more and knew what I wanted and got the exact opposite basically and the treatment on an interpersonal level was outragous...

3andnomore · 28/09/2007 16:52

can identify wiht you there Beansprout

ahundredtimes · 28/09/2007 16:53

But I think if you have a bad time then you do need to belittle and dismiss your birth. You have to acknowledge it first of course, otherwise it'll come back and hit you in thirty years time.

I'm only talking about me - I don't think this should be the pervading attitude towards birth, of course not.

I had a truly terrible time, and wasn't treated well at all. The midwife left the operating theatre in tears because she thought ds1 was dead. (She also came to see me at home, because she said she needed to talk about it! She did!!).

It's much healthier to say, that was bloody awful, it was a means to an end. Now ds1 is nearly ten, the birth has to be as relevant as my o'levels. Otherwise I'd be mad.

I know I sound brittle, and you're all shaking your heads saying oh dear, oh dear. But honestly, for me it WAS a means to an end.

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