Birth injuries

[KayBM]

Hi everyone,

I'm 5 months on from a Kiellands forceps delivery in theatre. Found it pretty traumatic. I'm so glad however that my little boy is ok, as I think he was very much in danger of not being ok! As a home birth transfer it could all have gone incredibly wrong and I feel really guilty over the danger I obviously placed him in. However, I was led by my midwife and didn't understand what and how often things go wrong.

In terms of birth injuries I have got a prolapse, pain, pain on walking, bad back, can't have sex, fairly regular constipation and days where I'm either weeing every 1 to 2 hours or can't. Anyway I know from since finding Mumsnet that many women are affected by birth injuries but I wondered how you were coping? Did you feel like you had enough warning while you were pregnant? Or do you think vaginal birth risks were downplayed? I certainly didn't know much at all about birth injuries and long term effects.

If you had a c section and birth injuries please get in touch too!

If anyone wants to private message me that would be great too...

Hi Op,

That sounds really awful and pretty traumatic. I don't have the same experience but I do feel that it's downplayed.

My first birth went well but I immediately bled a lot after, had to have a lot of intervention, was very scary. So for my second birth I was supposed to be under special care. However my midwife thought I was low risk and cancelled all my appointments with the doctor. Luckily the doctor demanded to see me and put a plan in place. When I gave birth it all happened again , only worse.

On reflection I feel really angry that the midwife took that decision into her own hands without even looking at the notes from my previous labour.

I feel the whole experience is down to luck on what midwife you get.

Hope you recover , and congratulations on your baby

I could cry at what you went, and are still going, through, Kay. It sounds horrendous. I've known women who have had a forceps delivery and were fine afterwards; you had very bad luck and I understand that is not too unusual.

Surely there must be something which can be done for you to put things right, you can't spend the rest of your life like this.

Quite honestly, I would not put mine and my baby's health in the hands of midwives, especially nowadays. Always consult a doctor. Midwives have their role and a doctor has theirs.

I do hope things improve for you before too long but don't leave it, seek professional advice.

Congratulations on your baby .

@nahnonever
That sounds really terrifying. I get the feeling we are pushed down certain pathways...whether it's better for us or not. I'm glad the doctor pushed to see you!

I think that rather than risks being down played it's a case of information not being readily available and women who are unaware that there might be decisions to make are not pointed in the direction of the facts.
I know so so many women that don't really know what could go wrong and what choices there might be if they do. The same with birth plans, many thing there is no point but I disagree.
I have done tonnes and tones of research (mostly procrastination as I'm studying at the moment) and feel like I'm quite aware (I've got things like "in the event of an emergency c-section would be preferential to instrumental delivery". Yet is is almost impossible to find out real risk and comparative risk, certainly laid out in a way which I (PhD in biological science) can understand.
While reports like the Birth Place study are good Id like to see similar facts about instruments versus c-section, birthing positions, constant monitoring versus none, VEs versus none, etc. So much of birth is not evidenced based yet we are expected to just take what HCPs say and do it.

I also had a forceps delivery in theatre after pushing for over an hour and then the midwife realising that our baby was in the wrong position. We were rushed to theatre. Our baby had to be manually rotated 180 degrees and be delivered with forceps. I am unfortunately suffering very similar problems to you. My baby is 3 months.
I am hoping things get better with time. It is certainly not something I expected to happen. Whilst I know many things can happen during birth, I cannot help but question whether they should have noticed the position of the baby on my arrival to hospital before I started pushing.

I think it really depends on who you see.
I had a very fast first labour which led to a 3b tear and surgery to fix.
I had a lot of pain for the first few weeks but moved past it with support from the community midwife team and health visitors.
I had my second child 7 months ago and discussions with the midwives were wonderful. We went through all options and what the chances of issues arising would be and I opted for another vaginal birth. The chances of a 2nd injury are not too dissimilar to having the injury first time round and as I'd had no lasting issues it seemed the way to go.
I wasn't going to go through major surgery if I didn't need it so wasn't prepared to opt for a Cs.
Sadly I suffered a 3a tear. Midwives said it must be the speed of it as they were convinced I hadn't torn as it went "beautifully"
I'm suffering more lasting issues this time. I have urine leakage, a slight prolapse both front and back and feel quite upset about the state my body is now in.
I have women's physio to work on my issues but obviously covid has stopped those and this. I'm sad with the end result but I'm not sure I'd do it any differently as I could have had these problems anyway as they are common issues from pregnancy not just vaginal labour's.

@Frizzy1986

It sounds like you are really suffering physically frizzy- I'm really sorry to hear that. I'm glad you found a lot of support for your second labour.

I have to say because I cannot leave it left on this page that- yes prolapse is possible after a c section...but from my reading on the condition it is much much less likely. I had never heard of prolapse when I got pregnant and if I had known about it and known the chances of getting it were significantly lessened by having a c section I would have had one.

Please stay positive and keep going with exercises your physio has given you.

Fyi another poster on another thread recommended squatting to me. They had a nearly 4th degree tear and said that squatting helped enormously. They pointed towards the work of Katy Bowen on pelvic floor health.

Hope things improve for you Frizzy 💐

My mother and many women of her generation suffered prolapse from being encouraged to push when not having a contraction. It's impacted her life massively and when I found myself pregnant I was determined to have a c- section.
This was before the rules were changed to it being possible to request one on the NHS. The midwives were actually supportive but told me I would have to "fight for it". So fight I did. When I eventually saw the consultant, I remember she was reluctant on the grounds that it's major abdominal surgery. At the point when I said I'd looked at the stats and that in that particular hospital a woman of my age had a 50% chance of having an emergency c-section anyway, she agreed and booked me in which was a massive relief to me as I had decided if I couldn't have it on the NHS I would get a loan and go private, so strongly did I feel about it.
Although the midwives were supportive. Organisations such as the NCT and much of society at large downplays the risk of vaginal birth, attempts to keep the truth from women and there is a misogynistic expectation that women should suffer in childbirth.

Hi OP

I had an emergency forceps delivery as baby had turned his head whilst i was pushing. I was also rushed into theatre and told It will likely end in a c section. It didn't and he was safely delivered via forceps. I was told that I had a slight tear so baby was sent out of the room with his dad and i was being stitched up for an hour! Turns out that I had a 4th degree tear!

I remember being really upset about it and once the epidural had worn off the pain was awful for weeks. I suffered with fissures and constipation on and off. I remember thinking that my body would never be pain free again.

I still have some slight tenderness, especially when I'm due on my period. I guess it just all of the scar tissue. If i were to have another I would definatly opt for a c section.

It will get better OP. But I understand the horrible situation your in.

No advice but I'm really sorry to read this and hope all gets better.

I do agree that they should have noticed the position of your baby. Mine was transverse and at 38 weeks, the student midwife said: the head is down, I then asked if he was engaged and then after a lot of feeling and pushing she said she was not sure, so my actual midwife checked and said, head is not down (after more feeling, listening, crying), I was told: you're heading to the hospital for an emergency scan, I delivered my baby via planned cesarean exactly 7 days later 39+0. If anyone has any questions about a planned c-section, please let me know and I can tell you about my experience.

I had a low risk pregnancy so had the chance to choose where I wanted to give birth. I didn't want a home birth, so although they mentioned it we didn't explore it at all as I wasn't interested, same with a c section, she outlined the rights you have over your birth but unless I needed an emergency one, didn't delve into that too much. I opted for the birthing centre, and they did clearly outline the limitations there (ie no epidural etc) and the fact that there were some scenarios in which a transfer via ambulance would be required. Unfortunately this turned out to be the case, I did have to be blue lighted and have forceps; thankfully all went well and I healed pretty quickly, but if I hadn't been told of this possibility I would have been very scared and probably annoyed after the fact. I can't fault them really, aside from some of the antenatal care but that's another story.

I think I have a prolapse, discovered incidentally by me but not causing symptoms. It may have been exacerbated by menstrual cup (removed it improperly). I guess I wish there was more awareness of it and the things that can cause it so people can take informed decisions. I’m just trying to do pelvic floor exercises, lose weight and try to avoid things that might make it worse.

I had an assisted forceps delivery and was left with a lot of pain, still can't have sex (8mo on) and initially had issues with incontinence (front and back ). All of this was because I was induced early due to my baby being big (she wasn't in the end, she was 7lbs13).

I did not feel well informed about induction, the high risk of needing an assisted delivery etc. The worst thing is what it put my DD through. She had awful marks and bumps all over her face and head and needed to see a cranial osteopath.

I am almost certain I will have an elected c section for the next baby (obviously depending on whether I'll ever have sex again )

I had a c section due to a breach birth and have since nearly died twice from 2 ruptured ectopic pregnancies and lost both of my tubes due to scar tissue from the c section destroying them. I'm now permanently infertile

My back has also never recovered from the spinal drugs and I haven't slept without back pain in 4 years

So sorry you're going through this OP. It is really really awful. With my first I was induced on the drip and pushed for nearly 4 hours. It was exhausting and the most painful experience of my life. Then when ds1 finally came out I got a 3dt and hemorrhaged 3.5 litres. I had to be patched up under GA and have blood transfusions. It was so painful - I was in hdu for nearly a week and after that it took ages to recover. At 4 weeks pp I still couldn't walk really other than pottering round the house and I remember bursting into tears when a midwife rang me about some medication I was on, sobbing I didn't think I'd ever feel better!
With dc2 i had an elcs and it was amazing. So calm and positive. The procedure was fine (the baby is out so quickly!) and then the initial "coming back to life" bit is a bit painful but nowhere near the pain of dc1 for me. I was home the next day and by 10 days pp I didn't need painkillers at all. I could walk to the shop/park and visit family. It was an absolute revelation. It's 6 months since my cs now. I'm exercising daily, have lost the baby weight from ds2 and generally feel fine! At this point with ds1 I was only just emerging from the fog of the birth and felt/look like I'd been hit by a truck. I'd take a c section over a vaginal birth any day.
Imo the risks of vaginal births are downplayed. There's very much a narrative of it being straightforward, easy to recover from and almost risk-free. Yet many women I've spoken to have had bad/complicated experiences and been left dealing with the aftermath completely unprepared. Equally I think c sections are demonised when actually elective c sections are very safe and recovery is often quite straightforward. I know one of my friends was horrified I was having a cs as she thought it meant I couldn't breastfeed (!). I really really dislike the prevalence of these hypnobirthing programmes that encourage women to think it's just a matter of positive thinking and if they just try hard enough they won't need pain killers or intervention. The reality is childbirth is unpredictable, painful and often traumatic and no amount of positive thinking is going to stop your baby being in the wrong position or a hemorrhage that has to be controlled in theatre.

Sorry there were paragraphs but the app has buggered up (again).

I am really feel for what you are going through and can totally empathise.
DS now 14 months was back to back and I was told it wouldn't cause an issue, however within 30 min of pushing I told them nothing was happening (it wasn't) but they wanted me to keep trying, I told them several times if I need a section just do it now because it was agony. After 4 hours of not progressing they called in a consultant who said prep me for theatre just in case... And when he returned he talked me through his plans so off we went to theatre (I totally wasn't prepared for the amount of people that go in there lol) had a spinal and then he attempted vountousse - after three failed attempts, he decided on forceps and on third attempt he got DS out.
By which point I also had an epitosomy and a third degree tear. The staff were amazing and I can't fault them at all, consultant explained DS was wedged right in and no amount of pushing would have moved him.

Following birth I had incontinence front and back for a few weeks and although it has settled to a more manageable level I am awaiting consultation for possible surgery following tests for nerve and muscle damage etc both vaginal and rectal.

Ive had counselling which has helped to a certain extent but the PTSD is most definately still there and if I think too much about the birth I have anxiety attacks still.

I can have sex but I believe that's because I have only vague feeling so to be honest I can take it or leave it.

On a positive things can and do improve often and I'm hoping I can get further help once this is all over.

I feel a bit ambivalent about all this. While information should be made readily available, would it really help to have doctors go through everything that can go wrong ?

If you're at a particular risk of something happening then of course they should warn you and inform you of the various choices you may have. But a lot of birth injuries cannot be predicted.

When discussing birth I'm always a bit annoyed by people who find it absolutely necessary to go on in detail about horrific 72-hour labours that end with terrible tears and permanent injuries. To clarify, I'm not annoyed that people might need to talk about it and need support, but I feel like it's not the best thing to say to someone who's about to give birth for the first time. It's just anxiety-inducing and it does nothing to help.

It's a bit as if I went on a skiing holiday and someone found it necessary to tell me about the compound fracture they suffered on their own holiday, followed by gangrene and amputation. Except I can cancel the holiday, can't exactly cancel the birth ! Also we can't preemptively deliver all babies by c-section, especially as there are also risks associated with that.

That said there are also cases where additional injury is preventable and obviously everything should be done to prevent them.

To specify, I did have some tearing - not sure what degree, they didn't tell me and I didn't ask. I was in pain for weeks after the birth (thought it was normal. Still not sure what "normal" is as I have nothing to compare it too).

Before the birth I told the doc I didn't want an episiotomy. He said for first time births it was all but "unavoidable". Next time I saw him I outlined the numbers from the WHO, which say episiotomy should be needed in approx. 25% of first time births if I recall correctly. Doc wasn't happy but agreed to try and avoid an episiotomy. To this day I don't know if I'd have been better off with one...

Sorry to hear this op. I think they do downplay risks of vaginal births. I was under consultant care for my twins. First birth , first baby. I spoke to a lot of people regarding multiple birth and they all said opt for a c section. They tried to induce me but nothing happened. Before it did, I said I had enough and opted for a c section.
It makes me angry that women are asked to birth naturally when they don't want to. I did not have the confidence that both my babies would be ok with the vaginal birth. I didn't really care about myself , which I should've really looking back.
I have had no problems with my c section. I sometimes have a dull pain when I lie on my belly in bed but that's it.
I think women should be made aware of the risks of both. It's not normal to suffer and be in pain. Just because natural birth is "natural" doesn't mean it should be everyone's way.
I wish you the best for your recovery and I am confident you will get better in time.

@malysh
I am hoping that you're not in pain now and fully recovered. Hope your little one is happy and you are keeping safe through Corona virus. 💐

I can understand your viewpoint...many women probably think they are best off not sharing and scaring others. However, we do have choices including c section which has its own risks but may be acceptable to some especially if they plan a very small family. Women can also create more informed birth plans, dicuss episiotomy, techniques to avoid trauma etc. However they need to know what can happen to be able to do so.

I was midwife led and I did beg to get on a single antenatal class and I wasn't properly informed. A friend of mine had a nearly 4th degree tear which maybe could have been avoided...if she had known, that there may be ways to limit trauma. But she didn't know any of this because she wasn't informed and she didn't know the problems that can result- as many women's issues are not openly talked about.

Some people do need to talk about their trauma. I am interested to hear about injuries from c sections as well because I know birth can result in lasting effects and injuries either way. One poster here nearly died due to previously having had a c section.

I think the point is, we've got this platform here so we can all share our views, give information and offer support. That is brilliant...if I had found Mumsnet before I gave birth, I would have chosen a c section but that is just me. Others who find this information out before giving birth may look to having a different birth plan, know to ask different questions of their midwife and possibly won't end up traumatised if things go wrong because they felt more in charge of their care.

All of us deserve flowers 💐

IMO (in my opinion) the risks of vaginal births are downplayed. There's very much a narrative of it being straightforward, easy to recover from and almost risk-free. Yet many women I've spoken to have had bad/complicated experiences and been left dealing with the aftermath completely unprepared. Equally I think c sections are demonised when actually elective c sections are very safe and recovery is often quite straightforward

I agree with every word of this. I consider it utter gaslighting to tell women vaginal births are better for them. In fact, VB and CS both have risks. Some women find the risks of CS more palatable and others (the majority I suspect) prefer the risks of VB. If we aren’t allowed CS due to financial reasons then say so but don’t lie to us, and don’t tell us we are better off having a 4th degree tear than having safe, routine surgery.

the truth is that plenty of women who have VB end up worse off than those who have CS, but this isn’t made clear. We are just told a VB is better where one is medically possible. I accepted this advice and got induced, ended up with a forceps birth. I’m incontinent, in pain and have prolapse. To this day, my trust has literature up saying forceps are “safe and effective”. They’re not fucking “safe”. I’m pleased they used them rather than risk my baby not being born safely, but they aren’t safe. They carry a horrible risk of injury to the mother.

@Malysh The reason women need to be told is so they can choose a caesarean if they prefer that method of giving birth. The prospect women may not want to take the risks of VB if they knew them is exactly why the NHS isn’t upfront about them.

@Frizzy1986 It’s great that you are pleased with the choices that you made, I think the main thing with women giving birth is they make informed choices. I’m upset with how I’ve ended up as I feel if I had been warned I may have made a different decision. The risk of sustaining injuries such as prolapse from pregnancy alone does exist but the evidence is clear that vaginally birth ups the risk, massively so with an instrumental delivery. That stuff about how you can end up with prolapse with a CS is just another way to push women into VB. it doesn’t tell the whole story. Also you won’t end up with a badly torn vagina which ruins your sex life if you have an elective CS, I know this thankfully hasn’t happened to you but it happens to a lot of women. I hope you can restart your physio soon and that it improves things for you

to everyone on this thread.

To be clear I’m not downplaying the risks of a section or saying lots of women don’t have good experiences with VB, just that a misleading picture is presented by the NHS.

I had a complex delivery, ventouse, episiotomy, retained placenta, lots of stitches etc. I am only a couple of months, but feel I'm recovering reasonably well especially reading some of these experiences. I also planned a home birth and had to transfer in. Don't blame yourself for that! You may well have needed the same intervention if you'd started off in hospital. Planning a homebirth reduces the liklihood of medical intervention and was a reasonable choice yo make. I went into my home birth knowing the odds of transferring were reasonably high (i.e 40%). So I was quite prepared for it and why it might happen. If your midwife or homebirth team didnt make this clear, I think that's poor. I think researching home births meant I learn a lot about potential complications (in general) and I agree that classes like Nct etc don't really tell you, and my midwives although lovely spent very little time discussing birth options. Or perhaps complications and long term side effects are mentioned but quite quickly with no real discussion of how that impacts women long term. I'm not totally sure what the answer is though, because I also wouldn't want pregnant women terrified of labour when all options carry risks and being anxious might make labour worse. I think there does need to be more research, more easily accessible, evidence based information available and generally more openness about the impact there can be on women. Women definitely shouldn't feel pain, incontinence etc just have to be the norm.