Birth injuries

[KayBM]

Hi everyone,

I'm 5 months on from a Kiellands forceps delivery in theatre. Found it pretty traumatic. I'm so glad however that my little boy is ok, as I think he was very much in danger of not being ok! As a home birth transfer it could all have gone incredibly wrong and I feel really guilty over the danger I obviously placed him in. However, I was led by my midwife and didn't understand what and how often things go wrong.

In terms of birth injuries I have got a prolapse, pain, pain on walking, bad back, can't have sex, fairly regular constipation and days where I'm either weeing every 1 to 2 hours or can't. Anyway I know from since finding Mumsnet that many women are affected by birth injuries but I wondered how you were coping? Did you feel like you had enough warning while you were pregnant? Or do you think vaginal birth risks were downplayed? I certainly didn't know much at all about birth injuries and long term effects.

If you had a c section and birth injuries please get in touch too!

If anyone wants to private message me that would be great too...

@RoosterPie

I hope you are a little better. I'm finding it hard too. Hard that I do not feel I was an informed patient, wishing I could turn the clock back and feeling so naive. I tell people where appropriate about my prolapse, pain and other problems. I want to raise awareness a bit and lessen embarrassment about it. It is awful, but the more it's talked about the less stigma there is. I just wish someone had told me about these issues...

@ivfgottostaypositive

I'm so sorry to hear of your losses and the life threatening situation you found yourself in due to having previously had a c section. It must be absolutely terrible to be made infertile because of this. Whatever I say is going to sound like an understatement, not doing justice to your suffering...there are no words. I hope your breach baby is doing well.

Flowers for you both 💐

OP, I’m so so sorry. I feel your pain. Also 5 months on here. Not as bad as you, but I had failed ventouse in theatre, then forceps, episiotomy, third degree tear, a 2.3l PPH and on and off catheters for more than a week. DD was back to back, then semi rotated sideways. I was bleeding before I was taken to theatre and DDs heart rate was showing decelerations, so I was told at the time that I might have been having a placental abruption. The weeks immediately after were carnage. I was in agony, first I couldn’t pee then struggled with pretty full on incontinence, and a month later my back went into spasm and was excruciating for about two months. I hired a “valley” gutter cushion to sit on from NCT and it was the only way I could sit down at all. I was told it’s usually used for about a week. I used it for almost two months.
I started seeing an excellent private women’s physio in late January, and she diagnosed a mild prolapse and some potential nerve damage. After an intensive physio programme, scar massage and using a level machine, the incontinence is almost resolved and the prolapse is no longer there (according to her). She seems to think that the tear and episiotomy have healed well. My back is still far from perfect, but much much better. I haven’t tried having sex, and am a bit worried about how that will go.
I completely agree that the risks and complications of vaginal births being completely glossed over in places like NCT. I did a lot of research by myself and was under no illusions about what can go wrong. I also knew of my grandmother’s birth experience which left her with lifelong injuries. Still I was shocked at how very few straightforward vaginal births there were among my friends and people I know. Literally a couple, at least for the first births. Out of 6 of us at NCT, only one had a textbook easy delivery with no complications. Of the rest of us, I’d say the planned section had the easiest recovery and the least damage!

That was supposed to be a Kegel machine

@keha

Thanks for your post
I'm really glad you're recovering reasonably well. You're right a lot of us have been majorly affected on this thread.
Of course we shouldn't put up with problems but there aren't always easy fixes either. The reality is, if you're not really informed you can't choose the birth that is best for you and make a plan that suits you.

I had a very traumatic birth experience, failed ventouse then forceps, shoulder dystocia, episiotomy and 3b tear pph. Many stitches in theatre. I'm a year down the line and just about starting to feel normal, I still get urine leakage and everything feels different but the issues I had for the first 3-6 months with constipation, urgency to poo, pain etc have mercifully resolved and I escaped prolapse. The recovery time has been longer than I expected though. It's a factor in whether we'll try for a second, my DP is traumatized too. I would not consider another VB.

Had an EMCS due to pitiful midwifery care.

It was 12 months before the pain started to subside and 18 months before I was pain free.

So traumatised no way would I have another child.

@Theyweretheworstoftimes

That sounds absolutely awful. You were in a lot of pain for a long time, that must have been really debilitating.

There seem to be a lot of stories about pitiful care in maternity on mumsnet. It's really terrible that this is not more of a focus.

I agree OP, although I wasn't anxious during pregnancy and am more of a would like to know all the options and factors in a factual way to make an informed decision sort of person anyway.

My midwife and antenatal classes did not cover any birth complications or even options to consider. I done a little research when doing my birth plan but when you don't know what you are looking for it is hard! My birth plan wasn't looked at by my midwife for my appts, or the hosp midwives during labour so was a waste of time. The only thing I really specified was that I'd prefer to tear than an episiotomy as I'd heard anecdotally (hmhb podcast) about male drs performing them far too often leading to unnecessary longer term issues, I researched further and although it's not conclusive, I decided to put this on my birth plan.

In the end I had a 4 day labour, which ended up with an episiotomy and forceps delivery as my DD was tired (same!) and struggling to breathe. I had no idea what had been done, I was only told that 'baby needed some help'. It was only back on the next day that DP mentioned my catheter and that he had to restitch me twice, we should ask how bad my tear was etc before going home! All midwives between then had just checked on DD and my BFing. No post epidural check or help with the catheter etc. I had no idea I even had stitches and neither did the new midwife who was discharging me as it wasn't noted on my record (DD was being resuscitated in the room when I was being stitched so I wasn't paying attention to what was happening to me). Thank god DP was paying attention.

Before I was discharged a physio came round the wards and said if you've had an assisted delivery here's a few tips and our number, please call us if you have any issues. I'm so thankful she did!

At no point in the later home checks etc did the midwives or HV check my stitches or ask about healing etc. At the 8wk GP check I assumed I'd get checked over too, but the GP refused as it was just for baby, even when I said I think I might be infected as it was really sore. 2nd appt and the male gp refused to look and advised that I take salt baths and wait til 12 weeks have passed as that's how long it takes to heal. I wasn't convinced so asked for a 2nd opinion, the other female gp thankfully looked and advised a nasty infection, prescribed antibiotics and to keep stitches as dry as possible so showers not baths!!!

I asked the nice GP how long it really takes to recover and she laughed and basically said we just say 12 weeks to give hope, it's usually a bit longer but nobody would have babies if they knew!

I was 5 months before I was no longer in pain, but still have some sensitivity along the scar line during sex. The physio helped me with slight incontinence so that was sorted before the pain was and was really helpful. Lots of trusts don't offer it upfront so I'm lucky mine promote physio as I think all women should be offered this as part of a package of aftercare.

I don't think a c section is an easier option at all, but I do think the gaslighting comment above is spot on. The aftercare in my experience has been woeful and I think this needs drastic improvement too, so that women don't suffer in silence with the consequences!

@KayBM I agree there are no easy fixes, I just hope that as much money and effort is put into this area of health care as anything else. Im kind of suspicious it isn't and coming out of childbirth was long term issues can sometimes be brushed off as just one of those things and is something that isn't talked about. I think it's good you started this thread, it shows a lot of women have similar experiences.

@keha

Let's hope that things in this area of healthcare improve.

I think all women should be better informed and care tailored to them. I was always at risk of struggling if things went wrong because I have had PTSD before. I have it again, at no point was this taken into account. I think it is wrong that women are led down a path that doesn't suit their needs. If women are informed they can be an active participant in their care.

@keha

Any one wondering why I had a home birth...it was suggested as an option by my midwife and even though I asked nearer the birth if I should go to hospital instead, I was assured I'd be fine. In fact she was even annoyed with me so I thought I was being silly.

She congratulated my friend who gave birth just before me on having a natural birth when she told her she had a nearly 4th degree tear. My friend was traumatised too, she didn't know that could happen. She doesn't think she dare have another baby even by c section.

Did our midwife care about either of us?

@kayBM it was utterly horrifying. The midwives were sloppy at best. Whilst I am not in pain my body is destroyed. If I could turn back the clock I would never have got pregnant.

My marriage and mental health are on its last legs.

They should tell you, not only when you're pregnant but in sex ed at school. I also feel nobody spoke about prolapses, they vaguely mentioned tears. I was definitely led down the 'natural, midwife led, bath and music' route and feel I should have been better informed. I'm having my second in sept and feel much the same as a pp about an elcs. Would get a loan for private if they won't give me one.

@Theyweretheworstoftimes
I'm so sorry to hear what you're dealing with. I feel like my body is destroyed too but obviously in a different way. I think a way to take comfort is feeling pride at having brought a child into the world. But it shouldn't be the case that women get tortured to do so.

Your care sounds dreadful. I think so many of us seem to have been treated appallingly. I equally wonder how many women who have a c section are told the risks to future pregnancies like womb rupture or ectopic pregnancies etc? Are they just told oh it's rare anything goes wrong?

My midwife told me I'd be back to normal in a few weeks and just a bit sore initially! I daren't even go to see female gps after some of their attitudes...I mean they say what do you expect? Doesn't really cut it when you're not told.

I'm the one antenatal class I managed to get on at around 37 weeks nothing was mentioned about physical after effects of birth. Forceps were mentioned but they were 'rare'. My midwife asked me how I felt about them for birth plan- I asked if there was any alternative to not having them? She never answered. She couldn't answer or talk about it anymore because if she had she'd have had to tell me about the horrible problems they can cause.

I feel so silly and naive. I think it's horribly unfair what's happening.

I think it is horrendous that women are being forced to endure forceps deliveries especially when it seems they are used early enough that a c section would still be safe.
I asked about the use of Kiellands high rotational forceps at my midwife booking appointment because I had read so much on here about them and the long term damage they cause. I was told that I could refuse forceps completely and that Kiellands are used so rarely in Australia that many doctors are not actually trained in how to use them. Apparently if baby is still high enough up to use them a cesarean is preferable?

@Hopefulhen

I'm really pleased for you that your midwife was a bit more informative. I'd never heard of them, in fact they didn't tell me what forceps they were using. As I say I asked my midwife if there was any alternative to forceps and she never said there might be times I could realistically refuse and choose c section instead. No one asked me what I wanted at the hospital they just said they were better. I didn't want to refuse and something happen to my baby by them doing a c section. They said my baby was low. I've another thread on here called are Kiellands forceps ever safer than a c section. That gives some information, I am not sure what I believe anymore.

Wish I'd found mumsnet when I was pregnant....

In my experience c section risks weren't talked about either. Everything seems to happen in a panic either way. Decisions are made when we aren't aware of ourselves , I think that's a major part of the trauma. That we don't feel in control.

My c section was semi elective as they'd already gone ahead with the induction process. Nothing was happening so I said , get me out of there , please give me a c section. I wasn't confident my babies were going to come out safely with a c section. (Twins). None of this was discussed previously.

They just want you to go natural and then when it doesn't happen , options are given. But that's not the time to decide.

Safely with a vaginal birth* mistake

@mamamo15

Yes there are definitely risks with a c section too. It just seems really unfair that they're steering people a certain way. There's an attitude as well that information on line is rubbish.

Said to a midwife after giving birth that I felt heavy down below and typed this in as a symptom on web and it said prolapse. I then found it on Mumsnet...she said that people on Mumsnet talked bs!

The midwife said that and not to take any notice of women on Mumsnet!

Yeah, I agree with you OP.

I really think that doctors and midwives massively overplay the risks of Caesarean sections and massively underplay the risks of vaginal births.

My own experience of this is that my baby was measuring large throughout my pregnancy. I asked repeatedly about having a caesarean. No, they said, c sections come with many more risks to you, like bleeding and infection and a longer recovery time.

You can guess the outcome. Nearly 10 months after my vaginal birth (and 6 months after my third surgery to repair the damage) I’m starting to feel normal-ish again. No one mentioned a missed third degree tear, a haematoma forming behind stitches, or a perineal fistula as risks of a vaginal birth.

@Monkeynuts18

Yes. Sadly I think we all trust hcps implicitly until we realise how misled we have been about birth risks and injuries.

Deterring women from c sections is one thing but when they downplay the impact of birth injuries and what they lead to...that is unforgivable. It means essentially that you can't protect yourself even in vaginal birth, you don't know how to push and like me...you agree to a Kiellands forceps delivery that's recommended to you because you've no idea of the damage. I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through. It's awful what is happening and I am really shocked that women's long term health is not taken into account.

So sorry you are going through this OP :(
My DC is 6 months. I had vaginal ventouse delivery which resulted in 2nd degree tear and episiotomy which didn't heal well and I'm still in pain and bleed to this day whenever I walk too much. I was due to have a surgery to fix my stiches but due to lockdown all this was postponed. It's also impossible for me to have sex which is crazy considering it's been so long since birth.
When I was finally seen after complaining about pain numerous times, I saw a very good gynecologist who said that unfortunately in some cases this is normal in vaginal birth. Just no one seems to talk about it. I agree that no one seems to tell you these things before, but I do see why. I think I have scared so many of my friends who don't have kids when I tell them what happened to me

@Rotorua

You have probably done your friends the best favour anyone can do. I wish I had had someone to tell me the damage that could be done. That way I know I would have had a planned c section. At least for those who still want to go natural... they could put things like no forceps etc on birth plans. Your friends might be able to protect themselves now for the future. Don't forget to remind them if they get pregnant what can happen... It's up to them what they do, but it's better to go into it with your eyes wide open. There's a lot that can be done to minimise damage.

I'm sorry for everything you've gone through. I hope your surgery goes well when you can get to have it 💐

I think the risks that come with a natural birth are downplayed, information is not readily available and doctors are 'too scared' to go straight to a c section.

I laboured for 72 hours, pushed for 2 hours, and my consultant said "baby has turned their head. We could try forceps and they might work, but I don't want to risk you injury so I advise straight to c section"

My friend had a very similar labour, but their consultant tried vontouse(?) and forceps before deciding a c section would be better. She nearly died.

Of my 5 good friends who had a baby within a month of me, all 5 have had issues.

We are TTC baby #2 and if I am lucky enough to fall pregnant I will be having an elective c section