Why is everyone so anti elective c-section?

[Gangle]

I'm only 7 weeks pregnant but am sure I want an elective c-section. I've read extensively around the subject and think I'm well informed on the pros and cons of elective c-section v VBAC but it seems there is so much stigma attached to elective c-sections and that people will do/say anything to attempt to dissuade you from having one. Just wondering why there isn't more respect for your wishes about how you want to give birth.

I couldn't give a rat's arse how other people chose to deliver their baby, you make the choice for you and your family (if you can and theirs not a medical reason for a cs)

Pre-DD1 I was the opposite of you I was terrified of having a CS. I couldn't handle the lack of control, i.e. being flat on your back with people "doing things" to your insides, I hate hospitals so the thought of being in one for 5 days horrified me, also ahted the thought of being out of action for a few weeks and having someone cut through my stomach (BF had CS I saw the scar and her stoamch muscles have never been the same since no amount of sit ups can get right of her paunch and she's a size 8 she says she's still numb in that area too) so all this really put me off.

DD1 was a VB loads of stitches but they were absolutely fine out of hospital the next day would have been sooner but she was jaundice and not feeding.

DD2 homebirth only a slight graze felt great afterwards was putting on washings and playing with DD1 a few hours after she was born, out and about and driving the next day.

OK labour hurts like hell (I only had G&A) but the minute the babies out the pain goes and you feel so wonderful because you have just given birth to the most beautiful baby in the world.

2pworth - you just said the exact same thing as me

I understand that MB but I can't post about your birth and your experience only my own, lots of people are being positive about their cs experiences but surely it's wise as with all things to paint both sides of a picture. On the positive side (before I get any more flamed) the cathetar was out and I was up and walking (because no-one would take me to see my son) within 24 hours of birth. It saved ds's life (and possibly mine). I had a very nice anesthsnatist and an excellent surgeon (sp). It didn't hurt during the delivery (sorry I can't say birth). My problems with breast feeding were not because of the CS but because of other reasons associated with the care ds and I received. I had a negative experience but that can happen with whatever type of birth you have. But I will never be able to think that a CS should be chosen because people think its the easy option. Chose them (if you can afford to) in full possession of all the facts positive and negative about vbs and css. Medical indicated CS is not a choice, in those cases it is considered safer for mother and baby than vb and is therfore necessary.

Gangle - have only skimmed thread so apologies if I'm duplicating what's already been said but, based on my own (admittedly v. limited) experience I'm not against elective c-sections. Every woman is different as is every baby and the context they both find themselves in.

If infant mortality figures are higher for c-sections (I'd be v. interested to see study where this came from if anyone has a link btw) then surely this is in some measure due to the fact that many caesareans take place once something has gone wrong with a natural delivery?

Also - I have great respect for Michel Odent - but query his opinion about bonding and the birth process. There are many examples on this site of mothers finding it difficult to bond with their babies after a traumatic natural delivery.

You only need to look on the recent thread titled "what do you wish you'd known about childbirth before you gave birth for the first time?" or words to that effect, to see (and feel) some of the intensely disturbing and traumatic experiences that women have suffered giving birth "naturally" (for want of a better expression).

For what it's worth Gangle - my c-section was a dream and a very positive experience indeed. (I had one because dd was breach and I have strangely shaped, backward, heart-shaped womb although why I feel the need to justify it I don't know!!). Stick by your guns is what I say! It's never good to make decisions based on fear, but if you've done your research and if you feel it is right for you and your baby then don't be dissuaded! (dons metal helmet - steps back - and prepares to take flack ...

sorry for those of u pregant and upset by some posts. I know curosity prob makes u read threads like this but the q was about what wrong with a 'chosen' section - bound to b bad stuff on. Those of us have been through a section on medical grounds we owe alot to sections, i know my son would of died without it but we are just highlighting they are more risky, major surgery that take longer to recovery from and most cant understand why someone would want that for no reason. Sections are great when needed but if not needed why put u and baby at extra risk. If i go on to have a 3rd baby i will probably have an elective section (but dont want a section)as in my case a natural birth would b more risky than a section but thats the way it goes u have to weigh up what is better and less risky

sweetkitty, I think you should give a rat's arse because sections are very expensive, those choosing them for non medical reasons are spending nhs money that isn't there to spend. Of course if they do it privately and pay for an unnecessary operation themselves then that is their business.
I think how sad for them that they will not experience the great pleasure and sense of achievment that a good natural delivery can bring.

sorry - not implying that you are making decision based on fear - that came out wrong!

just thing everyone should be able to make informed choice depending on first what's best for baby, second, what's best for them ...

I never thought of the cost to the NHS either kittywits but you could also argue that the NHS pays for countless unnecessary operations. If a woman choses to have an elective section because she is terrified of childbirth isn't akin to a person having an op because they have smoked or drank all their lives or someone having a nose job because they hate their nose?

Not saying that it's right just that it's not always that cut and dry.

I know what you are saying sweetkitty. I do have a gripe about paying for people's self inflicted ills. I have a problem with spending thousands ondrunks, keeping them alive just to watch them go out and keep on doing the same thing until they kill themselves.
For me the diufference between treating a smoker who has self inflicted smoking related diseases or a drunk with liver failure is that there is something wrong with them, they are ill. A person who choses to have a section on non- medical grounds is not ill, they do not need the operation.

I do not think the nhs should pay for cosmetic surgery either, unless the surgery is to help someone with a disfurgurment. Just because someone doesn't happen to like their nose, then no, they should pay for it themselves.

Not read the whole thread but my dad - who was a consultant paediatric radiologist (so OK, not directly involved) is really anti elective ceasarians as they involve major surgery unecessarily.

In fact, he is anti-caesarians in general as he suspects that in this country we are doing more of them purely becasue of fear of litigation, and in countries where health care provision is private, he suspects that there is a pre-dispostion towards C-sections as there is more profit to be had (plus the fear of litigation again). He is very cynical!

My own birth expereince doesn't seem wonderful but to me it was "natural" as it was vaginal and not a section. The facts that I had been on diamorphine, induced becasue I had gone 24 hours since my waters broke, and ended up with a puddendal block (a type of localised anaesthetic instead of an epidural) to allow mid cavity forceps have all been blocked out. I tell you that not as a horror story but to illustrate that it is all a matter of attitude. I am not someone who enjoys pain, but the memory of the baby soon overcomes everything else.

I am not anti but wouldn't chose it for myself. i have had a vaginal and an emergency c-section. It took me a while to get round c-section, i felt that I hadn't given birth it was such a strange feeling. I am glad that I have had one vaginal birth.

With regard to those women who choose C-sections because of a 'fear' of labour (I'm one of them), some people just don't understand the difference between fear and phobia - simple as that!

if someone phobic about labour then they should bloody well go and get it sorted instead of expecting the NHS to sort it out for them. Jesus why can't people take responsibility for themselves? ]angry]

Message withdrawn

Have some compassion Kittywits. A true phobia can't be "sorted out" that easily - it's a mental illness - just as serious as a disease and should be treated as such.

I'm sure many people with crippling phobias would love to receive treatment from the NHS but sadly it's not easily accessible.

I've had treatment for panic and anxiety (didn't have my c-section for that reason) and I find your comment about taking responsibility offensive.

That is (didn't explain very well) if you struggle with a crippling phobia every day - as I did for over a year - you are more than aware of the effects that it has on others. You feel a huge responsibility and pressure to get better every day.

OP, see Kittywits' last post for proof about people not understanding phobias...

have just returned home, 48 hours after having an elcs for dd 2, dd1 was born by emcs after a horrendous labour and chose to have an elcs this time as did not want to go through the same experience again. I am up and about, bit sore but nothing I can't cope with and feel pretty good.
Have a friend who had an emcs for dc1, tried for a vbac with dc2, ended up with 4th degree tear, forceps, prolapses, unable to stand or sit down for 5 WEEKS, over a year later is facing more surgery to correct remaining problems.
Yes, cs do take longer to recover from compared to a nice normal vaginal delivery but not everyone is lucky to have that experience so please take into consideration that people may have genuine reasons for requesting an elcs. For those who can't understand why we would request to have an elcs, then count yourselves lucky, I'm just pleased that DD1 is alive and healthy which is why I had no hesitation in requesting an elcs for DD2

If you have a phobia about giving birth then surely you should get treatment for it before you become pregnant? Perhaps I should have more compassion. But the answer to being phobic about giving birth is not simply to have an elective section, that's not dealing with the issue.

Kittywits, why do you care so much how other people give birth? Surely it's their choice and that choice should be respected? I respect peoples' choice to give birth naturally - this thread was getting at why people can't accept people choice to give birth by c-section. I wouldn't say I had a phobia; it's just not for me. Re funding, I pay 40% tax and have done for almost 10 years. Last year alone I paid almost £35,000 in tax so yes, I do feel justified in asking the NHS to pay for it. Who's to say a vaginal birth with complications wouldn't end up costing more anyway?

Kittywits - of course no one is saying that the best way to deal with a phobia about giving birth is to have an elective caesearean. Most phobias are cured by facing the particular fear concerned - but gradually - and with outside support.

However - phobias are difficult to treat and help is not always readily accessible.

Also - phobias in general aren't always that "cut and dried". They often fall within a general diagnosis of panic and anxiety and improve or get worse according to outside stresses and circumstances. Even if a woman was successfully treated before getting pregnant, pregnancy and childbirth are very stressful events, and phobias can be exacerbated at those times.

Gangle, most vaginal births cost way less than sections, that is fact. The NHS doesn't have enough money.
In an ideal world we would all have ebough money to do anything we wanted and the NHS would have plenty in the pot. It doesn't matter what taxes you've paid.
The fact is the NHS should be spending money in places other than elective sections for people who are phobic about giving birth.
I don't care how people give birth. I DO care when it is done using public money.

am inclined to agree with Gangle - it's her decision in the end,for whatever reasons she has - as long as she knows all the pros and cons. I had a vaginal birth but with lots of intervention - forceps and ventouse and a million stitches btw. Have not given birth since !!

Kittywits - sorry - but I'm getting angry now.

There is a difference between 'slight anxiety' and a full-blow crippling phobia.

In effect you are saying that mental health issues are less of a priority than physical health issues ...

No I'm not, but mental health issues should be dealt with properly. The op isn't phobic. It sounds to me that she simply fancies having a section, which I think is really appalling.