Advised not to go for VBAC and am devastated

[Kaito16]

Hi all,

My first post on Mumsnet - hope I’m doing it right.

I had DS 2.5 years ago and am due with my second child in 3 months.

With first DS my waters broke and 18 hours later I was only 4cm and not progressing further so I was given the induction drip which successfully got me to 10cm fully dilated within a few hours and ready to push. I pushed for about 1.5 hours but to no avail. Baby was not coming out/stuck. I was rushed to theatre not knowing whether they would do an instrumental or c-section. Once we got there and they assessed me they decided an urgent c-section was required.

My little boy came healthily and we were pleased but I struggled emotionally to come to terms with having a c-section as I had my heart set on a vaginal birth and is something that as a woman I feel is important for me to experience.

So I met with the obstetrician who delivered my son today to discuss the birthing plan/options for my #2 due in 3 months. To my huge disappointment and devastation, he was extremely strongly encouraging me to opt for a planned c-section. He felt that a VBAC may not be successful for me because the reason for my first c-section was not a one-off occurrence (such a fetal distress) or a slow progressing labour. I still needed a c-section after getting to full dilation and pushing for a while, possibly suggesting that the shape of my pelvis was not allowing the baby to pass through effectively. Something he thinks may be likely to happen again (although no one knows until you get to that point).

He acknowledged that we would not know until I tried but if I tried a VBAC and then induction or emergency c-section occurred then this could have serious risks for myself and my baby.

I am so torn between my personal desire for a VBAC so I feel fulfilled as a women but now can’t help but think whether I would be selfish to go for this when I know full well what the risks would be. I would not be able to forgive myself if something went wrong with a VBAC and I knew it was because I went against medical advice because of my personal desire to deliver vaginally.

All I read all over the internet is how much you should push for a VBAC if you want it and don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise. Does this mean I should go against the advice of a well trusted and hugely experienced doctor?

I read constantly of women saying a VBAC was empowering for them and helped heal their trauma and guilt from their first c-sections. This is what I desperately wanted for myself but I just cannot see logically see I can go against the advice of a doctor with over 30 years experience who I trust and value his opinion, and instead take the risks of a VBAC as he explained them.

I feel like I have no options left and that this and God-willing any future children I have will all have to be by c-section. I don’t know how I will come to terms with this. :(

I don't understand why giving birth via c-section is any different to VBAC, you are bringing your child into the world in both scenarios. You should do it in the safest way possible, in the way that limits the damage and complications the most.

I would take what the consultant says, they don't refer for ELCS easily but if you're still really concerned then ask for a second opinion.

A technical question - when you have your second baby do they have access to all your notes etc from the first? I suspect a similar thing happened to me after induction drip and two hours pushing led to a trip to theatre but they got her out with forceps completely destroying my body in the process and leading to blood transfusion. I would LOVE a c section next time but I suspect it will be an uphill battle.

I was also going to suggest a second opinion. Not because you're not happy with the first response, but because different doctors have different experiences and you need to feel fully confident in any decision that you make. You sound doubting and if a second consultant agrees with the first then perhaps it will ease your mind.

When I read your post my first thought was, could you try a VBAC and if you get to the point of it taking longer than they'd like that you go straight for the CS? Rather than trying the drip and waiting as long as last time. A sort of compromise. I'd be asking the second consultant this. The only trouble is if they agree that maybe your pelvis isn't designed for the pushing part.

I was in labour for 25 hours with DC1 and although it turned out ok in the end I honestly thought we wouldn't get there through VBAC. I just didn't seem to dilate. DC2 was out in 4 hours. I've heard a lot of stories like that where the second can be faster and your body is more used to it so knows what to do. I don't know whether that's something that a consultant would factor into their recommendation though.

Fwiw I was induced with my second. I was absolutely devastated as I wanted a spontaneous labour, but I was 15 days over and I couldn't get to the hospital for daily monitoring. Words cannot explain how upset I was. I wanted the excitement and surprise of it all. She's nearly 2yo now and honestly, I don't even think about it anymore. That's not to say that it wasn't upsetting at the time, but I hope it offers you some comfort.

Get a second opinion, but honestly, I was wanting a VBAC after my first emergency section, however decided it wasn't about me, it was about my baby. I've had two sections and two kids, I don't feel robbed or like I've not fully experienced the birthing experience, it was just different than expected by I had two healthy beautiful hikers the safest way possible

Fwiw I was induced with my second.

Surprised by this as I was told best practice is to avoid induction in VBAC cases due to increased risk of scar rupture?

Just wanted to add - of course the main aim of childbirth (whichever method) is to deliver a healthy baby but that doesn't mean the mother's health (both physical and mental) isn't important too.

And if you're reading this as a pregnant woman who is planning a vaginal delivery please know that they aren't all horror stories like many of the women who have posted here. My DDs birth was the most amazing thing I have done and I hope to do it again one day. I know I would've read a thread like this when pregnant and completely panicked. People like to share their birth stories, often birth stories with trauma are given more light because people like me, with a text book birth, feel like they're bragging to share a success story.

OP - You could look into having a "gentle" section, with lots of calm and personal aspects if that's the route you decide to take.

I had a somilar

ironically i would say stop reading stuff on the internet.
follow medical advice
you will prob find an elective that you are mentally prepared for just as healing as a vbac.

I had a v similar first birth. Waters broke first, v long second stage (8hrs) and DD wouldn't come out. Failed ventouse and manual rotation and emcs. The consultant said that my waters breaking first could suggest that the baby was poorly positioned or my pelvis wasn't the right shape to deliver vaginally. Basically that often in those cases your waters break because the baby is pressing on the wrong bit, not because you're labour ready. He said that in those cases you often then see a longer labour and ineffectual second stage.

I felt terribly traumatised, guilty, sad, envious. You name it...

I attempted a vbac with dc2. My waters broke first and I strongly suspected things were going the same way and actually, my pelvis was wonky as suspected. Sure enough, ds failed to descend and I had another emcs. But I was prepared for it and it was a positive, joyful, healing experience with skin to skin and laughter and love.

A cs is not the poor cousin of the vb. It's a fucking miracle!

Hi OP.
I had similar first birth to you, only got to 4cm after days of contractions and about 12 hours on the induction drip though so didn't get as far as pushing.
I felt awful afterwards- I'd wanted a 'natural', drug free, moving around birth.
I was very happy to go for a c-section on my 2nd as it gave me back the control over the birth. I knew exactly what to expect and it really was one of the best days of my life.

*not having the opportunity for a vaginal delivery is a personal loss to be grieved

Bollocks.*
This attitude isn't helpful at all. How about acknowledging that some women would like to experience a vaginal birth, and that not being able to do so is a big disappointment to them? I've come across a lot of women who were unhappy never to have given birth vaginally. It's not unusual. Saying "bollocks" to them is like telling a woman traumatised by her birth experience "the only important thing is the baby got her safely". No, it's not. It is the most important thing, but a mother's feelings are important too!

I ve never understood the wanting a natural birth option.

I ve had 2 sections so therefore i ve never had a natural birth. Im very glad i havent had a natural birth as when pregnant with my first i was very worried about my vagina never being the same again. I was worried about being torn or cut down there and i was worried that i would be all stretched inside and sex never feeling the same again.

The birth of a baby is 0.01% part of having a child.

The main thing is is that the baby is here safely.

Totally agree and share the same thoughts as @BakerBear

I had a similar first with experience. I met one Doctor who would have agreed to a csec second time, one who would have insisted on a VBAC, and one who quietly suggested I try a VBAC but think about exactly what I was happy with. I went with option number 3. So consultant obstetrician agreed no induction, no forceps, and earlier to csec if there was a problem.

In the end this worked out OK - he was born by ventouse. But recovery was much easier than a csec, even with tear and stitches.

However there are other factors. My eldest DS was nearly 3 when his brother was born. Due to several fuck ups by the hospital he wasn't able to see me for nearly 48 hours. He ended up one very distressed little boy as we had to go in to hospital over night so in his mind, just disappeared. Obviously his grandparents were there. But his upset meant my husband had to leave me alone with new baby in the hospital and I was basically forgotten about for hours and hours, it was worse than my pretty traumatising first birth. With a planned section you have a date and can make arrangements to limit the impact on any other siblings. I have way more guilt and upset over DS2's birth than I do over the medically required c-section for DS1.

I think it's ok that you have these feelings. You didn't invent the idea yourself that VBAC is empowering, that vaginal birth is an important experience etc. It's one that can be quite pervasive and has become fairly mainstream. No great surprise that you might identify with it and I don't think there's any point in thinking to yourself I shouldn't feel this way. You do. It's understandable.

If it helps, I've done both types of birth and don't care. Vaginal birth was not empowering, or transformative, or fulfilling as a woman. For a lot of us it isn't. It's not some inherent thing. In a parallel universe where the version of you has a slightly more favourably shaped pelvis, you might well do it and not find it at all positive and/or significant. You just don't know. It's not a given. Women feel all different ways about giving birth vaginally, from love to hate. They're all valid perspectives.

I don’t know why people are “sympathising” with the OP or saying they “felt the same,” when they had a caesarean. It is not okay to go around saying that the only way to be fulfilled as a woman and not let your child down is to have a natural birth.

I can sympathise with any trauma the OP might have suffered, or any emotional or physical pain, but I cannot sympathise with what is basically a judgement which contributes to the feelings of shame and failure women have around their bodies and their achievements which society has created. It’s basically saying women must show they can successfully endure suffering and pain with a smile on their faces and also have the correctly shaped pelvis - all in order to be fulfilled in their womanhood and not let their child down.

Like a pp has said, childbirth is 0.001% of the whole experience of actually having a child. I have 3 children and the last time i thought/had a conversation about one of my births was the day after I had DC3. I breastfed all mine for a couple of years, but I never looked in the mirror and thought “phew, I am a real, fulfilled woman because my body did the right thing and enabled me to breastfeed.”

Also many of the recent new age so-called holistic “birth experts” put so much emphasis on births because it’s a great money spinner and an easy way to buy in to society’s suppression and influence over women.

So please please just stop propagating this madness!

personally I take your comments quite badly. My first was an emergency cs and would have died if CS wasn't an option. My 2nd due next week is a recommended CS due to issues from first birth am i ashamed by this no will I feel empowered when my DD is put on me Hells Yes. so take you absolute Bull and shove it. Get your second opinion if you think you know better than some one with years of medical knowledge and is literally just trying to help you ....

I am sorry you went through a traumatic time, a lot of women do but that gives you no right to speak the way you do and I think you could have worded things a lot better instead of insulting a lot of women!!

Don't go against medical advice, OP- everyone's situation is different. I've had 2 CS and am a couple of weeks away from my third. Would I have liked to experience a natural birth? Yes, of course. But my first DC had to be delivered by EMCS at 27 weeks and, due to the incisions I had to have on my uterus, I've been advised not to attempt vaginal birth, due to the risk of scar rupture, which would be very dangerous for both my baby and me.
I completely agree with those posters saying that how your baby comes into the world is only a tiny part of being a parent. Childbirth has become quite commercial recently - lots of products and companies present having a baby naturally as like going to a spa, but that's not the reality. Don't feel guilty or beat yourself up about having a c-section. You've been given medical advice to go down that route, so just focus on getting your lovely baby out healthily, and be proud of yourself for giving birth, whether that's by c-section or vaginal birth.

My scar ruptured when I tried for vbac. It was very scary. No way would I go against medical advice in this situation. I don't care that I ended up with 2 sections... So many professionals told me how lucky I was to have survived with a healthy baby after that and I don't feel any less for it.

I think another Dr might give you a very different opinion. As the midwife on this thread has indictated. So it's not necessraily about 'risking the baby's health.'

I had a very similar first birth (in fact almost identical).

No one even suggsted I shouldn't try for a vaginal birth next.

So I had one, and it was amazing. One of the most amazing exeperiences of my life.

So I had the bad luck medicalised traumatic birth and the lucky wonderful natural birth.

This isn't a competition, no one has to take offence, ultimately we just want safe births.

But if this is something important to you, to at least try, ask for a second opinion as I don't think the 'risk' is clear, and I suspect may be more a reflection on one Dr's particular stance of pro CS, and another may say something totally different.

@kaito16 firstly I want to say I’m very sorry for some of the horrible responses you have received on here. Some are disgusting and you don’t deserve it.

To PP who have come out with things like “I feel insulted as I’ve had a csection” - OP NEVER said that there was anything wrong with it but that she felt unfulfilled personally. If her personal feelings about her personal experience “insult you” then you must have a hard time going through life.

To PP who say they can’t understand her want for a VBAC- great, really glad (genuinely) that having a csection hasn’t been a problem for you but there are many women who struggle with it (evidenced by the higher levels of PND for csection mums).

To PP saying that OP is wrong to not follow the advice of this consultant and she is risking hers and her child’s life - rubbish! I was told two complete different things by two different consultants within 24 hours of each other about the exact same thing. So according to your opinion, my child’s life was put at risk no matter what. Different consultants have different opinions. Fact. And statistics show (from medical research which should be being used by OP consultant) that VBAC is actually SAFER for mum and baby than a second section. And chances of OP having to end up with another csection are no higher than that of any FTM so we should make all FTM have csections by your reasoning.

@kaito16
I understand how you feel, having had two csections myself. A lot of people don’t understand and tell you that “all that matters is baby is here safe” as if your feelings don’t matter which is utter rubbish. You would never put your baby’s life at risk for your feelings but what is so wrong with wanting a safe, healthy baby and a good birth experience? The answer is nothing so don’t feel guilty.

Statistics show you would not be putting your child’s life at risk by trying for a VBAC at all. The statistics show it’s actually safer than a second section. Obviously there is a chance you may end up with another csection anyway but still only about a 25% chance of that happening (about the same as all FTM). The chances there is something wrong with the shape of your pelvis is minuscule- it’s something some consultants like to trot out at any given opportunity but research shows that it is only true in a very, very small percentage of cases. As for feral distress - as far as I was aware this is NOT something that is likely to reoccur.

If I was in your situation I would ask for a second opinion. And you are totally within your rights to decline consultant care. I found my midwife was the most supportive of my VBAC attempt (far more than the supposedly specialist VBAC midwife). She was the supervisor of midwives so had a lot more experience of birth in general than most consultants have (and let’s not forget, consultants only deal with high risk births and births that have started to go wrong so often have skewed opinions).

*fetal distress

“I honestly don't understand some women's overwhelming need for a "natural" birth above everything“

A woman says she feels she feels she has to have a caesarean, or a repeat caesarean because it will give her the birth experience she wants. Can’t bear the idea of a vaginal birth. Pretty much everyone on this board will honour that. There will be story after story about people’s lovely, calm c-sections.

Someone says they feel it’s emotionally important for them to have a vaginal birth. Cue post after post from people ridiculing the notion, and belittling the idea that someone has anything to gain emotionally from having a vaginal birth.

OP - I’d recommend you talk to an experienced midwife and maybe get an opinion from another doctor.

And some women DO describe having a VBAC as empowering and wonderful, and they are entitled to their feelings about their births.

Good luck!