MRSA superbug - are we at risk with catheters, open wounds etc

[bunny2]

I knew I'd find something else to fret about! With all the news stories about MRSA, I am feeling slightly apprehensive about giving birth in hospital. It seems to me that women giving birth are ideal targets for these bugs - we often need catheters, ivs, have c-sections, rips and tears etc. Also, after 9 months of pregnancy our immune systems are pretty useless. How vulnerable are we?

Does anyone know more about this?

I don't bunny but am really glad you asked and hope you get some replies!!
Will be following with interest!+

good, I hate starting threads in case noone replies!

The thing is with MRSA is that most people who go into hospital end up with MRSA, and that includes hospital staff such as doctors, nurses and midwives, visitors etc. MRSA lives quite harmlessly on the skin and in people's noses, mouths, hands etc. It only causes problems when it invades a wound, or catheter or whatever and that person is particularly susceptable to infection.

Yes its true that pregnant women do have compromised immune systems but they not 'unwell' as such and they tend to only be in hospital for a very short time. Things like catheters are also in place for a very short amount of time so infections do not really have a chance to take hold. Its not like on general wards where some people stay for many weeks and have catheters in for days etc. Also if you have a c-section, and when you have a catheter put in you are virtually always given some broad-spectrum antibiotics to prevent any opportunistic infections taking hold in the first place (which could then become nasty like MRSA).

I hope that gives you a general idea of the MRSA problem. I'm sure everyone knows a disaster story where someone has nearly died or had awful problems because of the infection, but in practice these people already tend to be already immunocompromised in some other way, thus they are very high risk for other problems to occur.

Short answer is yes; there are lots of bodily fluids around in maternity units. But have you ever noticed how few people use the hand scrub at the doors? Including medical staff?
Some hospitals are very dirty ? I know women who have taken J-cloths and detergent in with them to clean the bath before they get in it.
Plus, if you don't have your own bathroom, there's plenty of opportunity for cross-contamination (that's why visitors are banned from using patients' loos)
Insist that any healthcare professional washes their hands before touching you. During labour midwives use surgical gloves but when you are back on the post-natal ward you need to keep an eye out.
And that includes reminding your visitors to use the handscrub at the entrance to the ward and when they leave.
Don't want to terrify you though, lots of us give birth in hospitals and survive to tell the tale!

Hellomama's right, too, MRSA isn't often a problem for healthy people.
PS one reason hygiene in hospitals is poor is because the Tories contracted-out cleaning. So cleaners aren't employed by the hospital trust which means nurses are limited in the directions they can give; their employers cut corners to save money (not providing sufficient equipment, employing people who can't read English which means they don't understand written information like signs saying 'clinical waste only'; they are paid appallingly low wages and are not 'part' of the hospital so little incentive to care enough to fight against their employers/the systemj/high staff turnover... etc. etc. etc. IMO the Government should insist hospitals bring cleaning back in house.

Errant smiley obviously shouldn't be there...

Well I'm on my 3rd section in December. After the last 2 stays in a filthy hospital (and after watching my blood and urine being spilled on the floor and not cleaned- dh had to mop it up with paper towels) I am taking in a bucket, gloves, spray dettol, a bottle of dettol and antispetic wipes (and I'm a domestic slob at home). I just cannot afford to be laid up for months with an infection. I'm fairly certain I will have a catheter in place for several days as my bladder and uterus are stuck together - last time it was 3 days- so I will watch out for that.

In both cases I've gone home very fast - 4 days in each case and will aim to do the same again.

Isn't Lesley Ash still in hopsital with MRSA?

my brand spanking new local hospital (precisely 18 months old) has had two MRSA deaths on the maternity ward in the last year...

i brought a bottle of tea tree with me, sprinkled it on everything, esp in shower. also great for washing wounds etc.

the staff in the hospital whispered to me not to use the bath...but to go in to the one ward that had a shower instead!

I also took echinacea for the 5 days i was in..to boost immune system. it is also anti-bacterial and anti-viral.

Bunny2. I found the higiene in the hospital I gave bith to DS frankly .... disgusting. We had a tour around the maternity ward and there was even water droping from the ceiling in the birthing pool room (being in the second floor of a 4 storey building I couldn't be clear if it was "clean" water or was coming from the drainage upstairs), everything was full of dust, etc. We complained and they took our complaint very seriously.

When the time for the birth arrived the maternity ward was cleaner but I still found some sort of worms in the shower, the toilet was discusting (we were 4 mums in a rooms which didn't help) and in the three days I spent in hospital I never saw somebody cleaning the floor. I would not even think about using the bath, and took the birthing pool completely out of my mind. So I believe bringing some cleaning stuff doesn't seem a bad idea.

Having said that, DS had an operation at 5m at another NHS hospital and the place was unbelievable clean, they were moping the floor 3-4 times a day. So I guess is a bit of a lottery, however, considering the paranoia brought by the latest news, I'm sure most hospitals are doing at least a little extra effort.

Forgot to say that I also find highly irresponsible that the staff (midwife, doctor, and anaesthetist) touched other things with their gloves on. The anaesthetist put his gloves on and then realised he had forgot the keys somewhere so he opened the door, went out, came back and used the keys with the gloves on. Same with the doctor who droped something in the floor and put her gloved hands at the floor before doing an episiotomy, and I noticed that the pediatrician went all around the ward putting her finger in every baby's mouth without wearing gloves at all.

I can tell you something, I may get all the bugs in the hospital but the staff is clear

But again, in the other hospital they were extreemely careful.

Am I allowed to name names? The hospital where I gave birth to my daughter (I won't name it but just say it was a large, well-known hospital in London) had toilets on the maternity ward that would make the grimmest public loo look clean. Fortunately, I only had to empty my catheter bag down it, not sit to do anything. That was four years ago, but I still remember it as one of the most vivid details of my birthing experience.
The other two hospitals I gave birth in were better, but it has to be said there is a fair bit of gore and other fluids involved when having a baby and I don't think anywhere is really clean. Try not to stay in for too long is my advice!

I'd love to see what mears has to sat about this! Firstly, it's nonsense that most people who go into hospital end up with MRSA. I've worked in hospitals for more than 20 years, and have been swabbed for MRSA many times and have not once been positive. All patients who are admitted to the ward where I work are checked for MRSA, and I can't remember the last time we had a positive one. And that includes people who are re-admitted, as well. MRSA is more common in old peoples homes and geriatric wards than maternity units. It is far more likely to be a problem to chronically or severely ill people, such as those in intensive care or renal units than those who are healthy and giving birth.

If you have a catheter, you are far more likely to develop a UTI from your OWN gut organisms than MRSA. You will not routinely be given broad spectrum antibiotics whilst catheterised, either- that would encourage the development of drug-resistant bacteria. The best way to prevent an infection while catheterised is to drink lots and lots of water, to keep the urine flowing. You probably would be given broad spectrum antibiotics after a section, though, (I was)as wound infections are pretty common in this area (moist, hairy and difficult to keep clean).

Staff are required to clean their hands between patients. Just because you don't see the midwives or doctors washing their hands, doesn't mean they haven't done it. I would usually use the alcohol gel at the end of the bed after touching a patient. The next patient in the next bay won't see that.

blimey.some worrying responses here. I am slightly cheered by HelloMamas post but the rest of them have really concerned me.

gloworm, is echinacea safe in pregnancy/labour? Is there any other way of boosting ones immune system?

pph, were the casualties you mention mothers or babies?

Or, is a home birth looking more attractive?

Tissy, posts crossed.

My nan contracted MRSA about 10 years ago when she suffered a brain haemorragh (sp?). She was transferred to a London hospital (who shall remain nameless) where she picked up the infection.

Last year, she was admitted to our local hospital with gallbladder problems. My dad and uncle were both away on hols so I was classed as "next of kin". Due to her previous infection, I watched the staff like a hawk - but they were excellent. Everyone used the alcohol gel even myself as visitors had to use it when entering and leaving the ward. Each bed has a container of the gel at the end and I noticed that the staff would use the gel then move on to the next bed.

Funnily enough, on the local news last week, our hospital was identified as one that had the lowest rate of MRSA in the region.

Tissy, the reason I am concenred is because a pregnant womans immune system is so suppressed, perhaps not as much as someone who is chronically ill but it is still not performing to its best capacity.

It's an interesting point Bunny2 but I've never seen any research (and I've read a lot of medical research in my time) that showed pregnant or labouring women are more at risk from hospital-acquired infection, other than you would expect anyway from lots of bodily fluids/wounds, etc. etc. Doesn't mean it isn't the case, though... must remember to ask my colleagues at the Journal of Wound Care (yes, it really does exist). Will report back!

bunny, they were both mothers. with the second one the baby also became very ill but survived. From what I remember, the first one was found to have MRSA while still in hospital recovering from the birth, but the other had been discharged a day or so before and both she and baby were rushed back in.

Where I work we "always"have MRSA pos patients.Yes,many are "long stayers" but quite regularly a patient who has never been "inpatient" before becomes MRSA pos soon after his/her operation, sometimnes ending up with severe infections.
But according to my great aunt infections with Staph aureus were feared in her time as well (like 50 years ago).
I think my advise would be stay as short as possible in hospital (went home within 48 hours after my cs).

Bunny2 - pregnancy itself really should not interfere with the immune system unless there is a real problem. There are instances where the immune system seems to be more efficient. Yes it is true women are prone to urine infections but that is due to the kinking of the ureters and pooling of urine in pregnancy rather than a weakened immune system.
That said, women who have undergone surgery are at more risk of infection. However, as tissy said, MRSA is not a common organism to be found in maternity units. Hand hygiene is a must and we have hand wash and hand rub easily available in the wards.
Try not to worry too much about it. There is always a risk in hsopital but pregnant women tend to be healthy on the whole.

bunny, echinacea (bioforce drops for definate, dont know about other brands as they may have other ingredients added. can get bioforce from a health shop)
echinacea is safe during pregnancy, i have used it twice during pg for cold/flu and food poisoning. also fine during bf and fine for babies and children.

you can also boost your immune system by taking probiotics (for example Acidophilus). A really good one is Solgar MultiBillionDophilus from health shop.
This is also good for counter-acting any negative effects of antibiotics used in hospital, maybe after section.

i own a health shop and have used lots of remedies during 2 pg and bf. so ask away if u have anu questions.

My last posting may have sounded a bit negative, just want to say that despite my "working experience" with MRSA I myself didn't see MRSA as a problem when I went to hospital for ds and dd.I suppose had other things on my mind...

I have MRSA, I also have a supra-pubic catheter. Every patient in hospital is at risk and I think it is your duty to say, 'Have you washed your hands?' Although not nice to be touched with make certain that the nurses are wearing gloves. The doctors are worse as they will go from patient to patient using the same pen. MRSA really only causes a problem if you are immune defficient (like me)or are elderly. If you are young and healthy if you get it as your wound heals then the infection will go. Did you know that a LARGE proportion of the population are carriers and have it in their noses?