Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

MRSA superbug - are we at risk with catheters, open wounds etc

53 replies

bunny2 · 16/07/2004 21:37

I knew I'd find something else to fret about! With all the news stories about MRSA, I am feeling slightly apprehensive about giving birth in hospital. It seems to me that women giving birth are ideal targets for these bugs - we often need catheters, ivs, have c-sections, rips and tears etc. Also, after 9 months of pregnancy our immune systems are pretty useless. How vulnerable are we?

Does anyone know more about this?

OP posts:
Bunglie · 17/07/2004 22:30

Oh there is some good research by Prof. Robert Reidle in Australia, relating to Tea Tree and MRSA. Tea Tree really does have an affect and a lot of Ausie hospitals put Tee Tree soap in them and this has almost eradicated the MRSA. I shall see if I can find the research.

Jimjams · 18/07/2004 13:08

PPH are you in SE London. The filthy hospital I gave birth to ds1 and ds2 in has now been knocked down and replaced and will now my about 18 months old. My friend said its already filthy. If its the same one I'm not surprised, bed occupancy on the maternity ward was always too high to clean it. I was in there last time from Thurs-Sun in that time there were 2 others mothers in the next bed, as already mentioned my blood and urine was spilt on the floor (when I was unable to move- still had epidural effects) and the floor was not cleaned once during my stay. let alone anything else. No tops were wiped, no sinks were cleaned. I was told by m/wives not to use the bath (not that I would have) but the showers overflowed and needed mopping up with paper towels each time (and ever time I went in there they had blood somewhere- not surprised- it was very very difficult to shower in there.

In our case it was ds2 who got the infection (not MRSA). Anyway I will be doing my own cleaning this time and going prepared (different hospital). There's an article about Leslie Ash in todyas Mail on Sunday (not my usual reading material- they give it away free in the gym )

My friend used tee trea when her sister was in intensive care and contracted MRSA . She swears it saved her life. I'll take some in as well.

luckymum · 18/07/2004 17:57

This is something I'm really concerned about. My mum is on the waiting list for a hip replacement and our hospital came 4th on the recently published list of hospitals deemed 'risky' for MRSA. Its a poor state of affairs when you're more worried about infection than the anaesthetic.

Gloworm - any recommendations to help prevent infection and aid healing would be much appreciated.

princesspeahead · 18/07/2004 18:09

no, jimjams, wiltshire. I was talking about great western swindon. it is shocking though, how filthy hospitals are and how it is, basically, accepted? eurgh.

dinny · 18/07/2004 18:14

PPH, my mil's friend got MRSA there and died from it. Only went in with some minor ailment. Terrifying.

gloworm · 18/07/2004 19:16

luckymum, echinacea and probiotics as mentioned below, they can be taken alongside antibiotics etc.
Arnica tablets for bruising.
Vitamin C 1000mg for boosting immune system and helping would healing.
Tea tree oil...neat drop on sponge when washing, 7 drops if adding to bath, 3 drops added to wash hand basin, sprinkle on floor in shower.
mixture of tea tree and aloe vera gel on wound (when it has closed/started healing).

there are others, cant think of them at the moment!

gloworm · 18/07/2004 19:17

i also used a good multi vitamin as hospital food was appaling

HelloMama · 18/07/2004 20:33

What I wrote about MRSA was purely from my experience working in a busy London hospital where many of the patients were MRSA positive (perhaps I just worked on a particularly grim ward?!), but it didn't usually cause them any problems, it was just present on their skin or in their noses. Of course there was always the odd exception to this rule and some people did get complications associated with the infection, but they did tend to be patients who were generally unwell or those who had other things going on which left them more susceptible to infection. ALso, where I worked people did tend to get antibiotic cover for invasive procedures such as catheters etc, but this was a place where people could be quite acutely poorly so perhaps sometimes it was necessary, but I agree that this is one of the things that causes the problems in the first place (i.e. antibiotic resistance etc) and shouldn't happen as a general rule.

I don't have any experience either working or staying in maternity units, but I do know from working in other areas that hospitals are generally filthy! I'm quite concerned about going into hospital myself and will be taking dettol wipes in my bag and trying to leave as quickly as possible! I think its such a shame that on top of all the normal worries that we have about childbirth, going into hospital, etc, that we now have to be prepared to clean the whole environment in which we stay ourselves.

dinny · 19/07/2004 08:28

Gloworm, if I take a probiotic (am due to have IV antibiotics in labour - GBS) will it help my baby cope with the effects of the antibio too? When should I start taking it? Sorry to hijack but your advice is really helpful. Dinny

gloworm · 19/07/2004 10:42

yes Dinny it will help baby too. In fact I took it the whole way through my last pregnancy/breastfeeding as it is so good for the developing baby.

zebra · 19/07/2004 10:46

Pointing out the obvious... this whole thread is an advert for Homebirth, you know.

dinny · 19/07/2004 10:48

I know! SO upset I have had to change to a hospital birth from my homebirth plans

Thanks, Gloworm, will buy some tomorrow and start taking it.

Blu · 19/07/2004 13:45

I am watching the MRSA news very carefully as DS will start bone surgery within a few years. I know the consultant we see has a reputation for being a fierce stickler for all hygeine regimes and good practice, so I asked her about MRSA levels in the hosptial. She said pretty much waht others have said - it is far more common in some wards, whilst others remain pretty free, and that some types of surgery, and patient are far more susceptible.

She has also always said - from when DS had his first operation, that we should always ask anyone who touches him to clean their hands first, whether Dr, Consultant, Nurse, Visitor...

JimJams - I'm pretty sure DS has had all his ops in the hospital you talk about - eeeek. DS was born there. the maternity ward is really filthy.

Jimjams · 19/07/2004 15:49

I think the maternity ward is particularly bad Blu- the gynae ward was a lot cleaner.

Mind you the hospital I'm using this time may be no better. Every time we talk about cleanliness dh reminds me of the time we took ds1 for a blood test and climbed out of the car to find a used catheter bag (not emptied!) fropped in the car park right next to our car. Yuck yuck yuck. It is norwalk virus city as well. And apparently is in the bottom 10 for MRSA (ie one of the 10 highest rates of infeciton) Oh joy!

Flossam · 02/08/2004 16:47

Ok, I think this will be very long winded! It's something I feel quite passionately about...I work on a unit where MRSA is ever present. Some times worse than others, but our patients are also incredibly sick and therefore very very susceptable. This hospital has done very badly in the MRSA league tables and is also the hospital where I am going to have my baby. It is not my 'local' hospital but it is reportadly one of the best maternity departments in the country.

I have been swabbed for MRSA, we are awaiting those results, it was something we did on our unit. But in a similar recent test 1 person in about 50 tested positive. That is hardly surprising when you remember that this infection is air borne. People in the commumity do carry it. I found it interesting to read a care home owner complaining about patients being sent back with MRSA she mentioned swabbing them on return but nothing of whether residents were routinely swabbed. From my experience, it is residents of care homes who frequently bring MRSA to the wards and from whom it spreads. Everyone on my unit is routinely swabbed on admission. Most, but not all do seem to pick up the infection on the unit.

As the problem becomes more prevelent it does obviously become more of a problem to contain. The ideal should be that infected patients should be isolated in side rooms. The practicalities of this mean that not all patients can be housed in this way, there are not enough side rooms especially in older hospitals.

Cleaners are a problem on the unit where I work. I have found that quite often their attitude stinks frankly. Just a couple of days ago I found one washing her mop out in the handwashing sink. They also seem to feel that there job is so important so as to disrespect patient privacy. I had drawn the curtains round recently to bath my naked patient, and she strolls in to empty the bin! I questioned her and she told me it had to be done now. I agree that they need to be brought back within trust and trained and educated properly. This is happening in some places.

Handwashing, I can only speak for myself. My hands are frequently red raw from where I wash my hands quite literally all the time. There is a lack of moisturiser supplies (cost) but this does not stop me from doing it. The only time when I will not do this is when a patient is at risk and I simply do not have the chance. Sometimes this is life threatening or compromising and I have to prioritise. I also am expected to scrub around beds with two different cleaning fliuds whih should take place twice a day.

I am keen for the introduction of tea tree. However I have made enquiries about this. Apparently a high percentage of the population are allergic to it. Also it is very hard to get the right concentration. The NHS are most probably reluctant to introduce this untill further research has been undertaken as they are likely to be sued.
Basically the media has decided to pick up on this issue at the moment. They are very much sensationalising the story and I very much doubt that there weren't underlying causative factors towards the deaths that have occured, few would be from mrsa alone. I certainly have never come across any patient who has died of MRSA in over 6 years. By all means take stuff with you to clean, watch the staff like hawks, especially with dressing changed but don't let this worry detract from the pleasure of your new arrival! Phew, sorry!

Flossam · 02/08/2004 16:48

Oops, try very long winded!

Slinky · 02/08/2004 17:12

Flossam

Your comments regarding the cleaners struck a chord with me.

My grandmother was in hospital for about 6 weeks last year - the nurses/doctors and some of the cleaners were fabulous, nothing was too much trouble etc.

However, there was one cleaner (who happened to be working most days I was there) whose attitude was absolutely disgusting. She would openly make comments about patients in front of me and other visitors, she made derogatory comments about my nan's Consultant who happened to be Asian. Another time, a very elderly lady in the next bed was trying to stretch across to her table to reach her drink. I was worried she'd fall out of bed, so ran across to pass her drink. The cleaner then shouted "move away from her, you don't know what's she got!!!".

At that point, sick to the back teeth of her slagging off the patients (hate to think what she said about my nan - one of life's stubborn ones ) ) I put in an official complaint to the hospital.

I have since heard that she has left (friend's mum works in the same hospital).

JanZ · 02/08/2004 17:37

I ended up back in hospital two weeks after ds was born with an infection which turned out to be Pasteurella, caught (we think) from one of our cats who had had a run in with (we think) a squirrel, just before I got out of hospital after having had ds and who I had had to feed antibiotics (ironic, innit! ).

Had the microbiologists in raptures!

Becasue it was so soon after ds' birth, and because I was breastfeeding, I was readmitted to the maternity ward (they also weren't sure initally what the infection was/what had caused it). I was put into a special room, with my own loo and bathroom, slightly separate from the "main" 4 bedded rooms, to keep me from cross-contimating the other mothers.

Apparently it's where they put the "celebrities" when they give birth in Glasgo - nly THEY don't know that they staff call it "the bugs room"

Slightly off topic, but it amused me at the time! ... once I had recovered enough to have the energy to be amused!

I have to admit though that while the hospital wasn't all shiny new, it was (to my low standards anyway) all fairly clean and respectable. I didn't notice nasty dirt anywhere, and I do remember the auxillary coming in and cleaning the blood spattered everywhere in the Labour Suite (and then going to get me some toast - which is standard procedure).

highlander · 02/08/2004 19:04

There was an article (or a comment on a paper, can't remember) a couple of weeks ago in the BMJ regarding one hospital's afforts to reduce the number of MRSA cases. It was an ortho ward, where most of the patients were undergoing knee replacements (or maybe hip, can't remember). They successfully cut down the number of infections by doing the following:

  1. ALL patients were screened for MRSA before coming into hospital and treated appropriately.

  2. A 'ring bed' policy was standard. Nurses etc wore plastic aprons and washed their hands after they entered the room so that they touched nothing after washing, other than the patient.

  3. Visitors hours were restricted

  4. Visitors were restricted to 2/bed.

  5. Patients possessions were severely restricted, making it very easy to clean around the bed.

All a bit obvious, innit?

mears · 02/08/2004 23:56

Visitors are a real issue. Cleaners say that because of open visiting hours, they cannot get into wards to clean properly. In the old days there were strict rules about visiting and only 2 visitors to a bed. That was seen to be harsh and the rules were relaxed. Now sometimes you cannot move for visitors.
In maternity it is hard because obviously the birth of a baby is a joyous event. However, I am amazed by the number of visitors women have and also the number of people babies are passed around to. Once all the visitors are away, the mother is left with a howling baby who will not settle. I think it should be encouraged that visitors should not handle babies and that numbers should be restricted. New mothers get hardly any rest at all. If women are fit for 20 visitors, they are fit for home

mummytosteven · 03/08/2004 11:09

but mears - sometimes women are kept in because the baby is under the lights, not because of the woman's health. tho i agree over number of visitors - was a nightmare trying to get access to the incubator because visitors to the bed next to mine would have the chair in my "space" and would have to ask them to move it

mummytosteven · 03/08/2004 11:10

in terms of hygiene, the only time i was told anyone should wash their hands before the handling ds was when i said my mum had a tummy bug a few days earlier (fully recovered)

mummytosteven · 03/08/2004 11:11

sorry mears, not meaning to argue with you over midwifery care, over as many threads as possible (!)

smellymelly · 03/08/2004 11:24

Very scary stuff!

Gloworm - My mum was told not to take echinacea before an operation because of the anasthetic (spelling), I think. Something to be aware of if having a c-section, also could be a problem in case of emergency c-sections as these are more likely to be under a general.

webmum · 03/08/2004 13:22

The hospital I'm supposed to give birth is is the fourth worst in the uk for MRSA apaprently, and this is a bit worrying...but I must say in my experience with dd1, evryone before approaching me or her would wash their hands, even the m/wife when she came to visit postnatally, first thing she did was to wash her hands. I remember my mum being very impressed by this.

I am quite keen to read this thread anyway, as our hospital was all over hte news a few weeks ago....

Swipe left for the next trending thread