HELP NEEDED!!!!!! - HOME BIRTH AT 42+ WEEKS PREGNANT

[kimberleyholistic]

Hi,
This is a long shot, I am overdue and looking to find a midwife/doula, anyone with some experience where I can give birth at home.

I was due to give birth at UCLH birthing pool, but because I am overdue my 2 weeks (their records) 4 days (by my records, from date of conception) it has caused concern.

Long story short, I agreed to go in for monitoring baby's heart beat, whilst moving positions, baby's heart beat dipped (I know now is normal). Awful midwife called in consultants who were like animals. Standing around me telling me I am now high risk and I have to have an induction. They even said better an induction than a dead baby. I am a very strong woman and have really done my research on EDD dates, induction, truth about still births etc... Although I was in floods of tears and an emotional wreck, three hours of continuos monitoring, it was shown baby is healthy and so am I. At this point I was able to discharge myself. I am making an official complaint as they used fear and incorrect data to try and get me induced. Effing wrong!!!!

No way am I allowing these controlling and manipulative midwives to intervene. My question - is there any independent midwives out there or if anyone can recommend solutions to a home birth??

I am have labour pains slowly, but I truly baby won't come out until I feel safe. I am setting up a fb page to help all women stand their ground.

Thanks
Kimberley

ispy what rubbish. Was your DC's heart rate dropping? Then it's a very different situation. Where are these countries where babies aren't term until 43 weeks? Fancy being specific? Yes, I fully believe baby babies can go past 42 weeks safely and if they don't show signs of postmaturity it is often due to the way EDD are calculated. The dropping heart rate is the issue here.

OP: if you are still reading this, how are you getting on?

ispy OP isn't low risk, her baby had a heart deceleration.

Op, I was being monitored in labour and my baby's heart rate dipped for a minute or two. Within 12 minutes I had had a crash c/section (general anaesthetic) and she still had a very low apgar score at birth and had to stay in hospital for a week.

Please forget about your ideal birth and listen the professionals.

"It scares me that so many people have such misplaced trust in doctors, many of whom have never even seen a normal low risk birth!"

This is a myth that I see repeated a lot around here. Just to graduate, most doctors will have had to have assisted 3 normal vaginal deliveries. We do a stint in Obs and Gynae as part of our training.

"Many countries consider 43weeks a normal gestation and better outcomes. I wish people would do some independent research before being so critical."

What is the evidence for this? Here's some real evidence that induction for post dates reduces the stillbirth rate, although thankfully the overall stillbirth rate is low.

(Generally, if I mention this on similar threads, this is known as the "dead baby card". I've had a dead baby as have others around here. It's not fun.)

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22696345

A policy of labour induction compared with expectant management is associated with fewer perinatal deaths and fewer caesarean sections.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3719843/pdf/nihms486624.pdf

Stillbirth rates start rising from even 37 weeks, and even more steeply from 40/41 weeks. (See the diagram on page 8.)

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21501456

Induction of labour appears to be an effective way of reducing perinatal morbidity and mortality associated with post-term pregnancies. It should be offered to women with post-term pregnancies after discussing the benefits and risks of induction of labor.

I find it really concerning that so often these debates descend into "Doctors Bad, Natural Good." To be honest, doctors would much rather be in their beds or catching up with other things, leaving nice low risk deliveries to the midwives. Doctors, however, are really keen not to have sick mothers and babies though when it can be avoided.

I've already refused to be induced at 40+10 'because that's the policy of nhs fife' and I'm only 38 weeks. She'll come when she's good and ready, HOWEVER if I had decelerations I would agree in an instant. People are confusing two very different situations here!

I was induced at 40+5 with my DD and by the time she arrived my placenta was seriously degraded.

You may have done a lot of research, but do you seriously believe that you know better than hundreds of years of studies, testing, research and millions of previous births?

Do what is best for your baby. That might mean putting your ideal birth aside for the sake of their safe arrival.

I am a mother and I am a midwife, I am also a midwife who has supoorted lots of women with home births by looking at research. I am assuming you had no further indications of problems for the rest of the monitoring.

Firstly these midwives are not your enemies and not are the doctors. These are highly qualified people who have had years of watching litigation rates go up and up. They are also people who have seen babies die in utero very quickly (as have I). What they did was panic when they saw this dip in the heart rate and then ask you to remain in hospital for three hours of continuous monitoring. As crap as it sounds was done so they have a bit of paper showing your baby was healthy when you discharged yourself. This is their protection against you litigating against them if all goes wrong. It's a crap situation but defensive practice is commonplace now. They also now have in writing the fact that they have warned you if the risks and that you have gone against their advice.

Secondly you need to read a lot of research about the placenta and deterioration in function after term....after 42 weeks as this is when the decline in function can begin.

You can still have a home birth...nobody can stop you. You can ask for a midwife to attend and they must do so legally. What you do not have a right to do is ask them to lay their registration on the line by patting you on the head and saying "there there dear" while you go ahead with your plans. They are under an obligation to warn you of the risks. They have done so and you can now make your own decision in full knowledge of the risks (and there is risk in everything we do).

Personally I would not risk a home birth after 42 weeks. The risks increase slightly every day and I'd want to be somewhere that could get m baby delivered quickly if needed.

Contact AIMS who might be able to help.

In labour maintain as upright a position as you can ...do not lie on your back. Am sure you already know that already.

Make sure you have a midwife very experienced in home birth too.

And I would also echo everything that madthings has said too. Brilliant post.

"after 42 weeks as this is when the decline in function can begin."

The evidence suggests that the decline begins even from 37 weeks, rather than just happening from 42 weeks.

"As crap as it sounds was done so they have a bit of paper showing your baby was healthy when you discharged yourself. This is their protection against you litigating against them if all goes wrong. It's a crap situation but defensive practice is commonplace now."

Or indeed, it was done to check that the baby was healthy because it had shown some concerning signs, more to do with preventing stillbirth/a sick baby than preventing litigation.

Hope you're okay OP?

Yes I agree with you Dino it WAS also find to ensure the baby was healthy.

I hope the OP is okay and will post back with an update to say her baby was born at home and all went well for them.

Christ. Why would someone ignore a consultant who has years and years of medical school, training and experience behind them. She wont be that strong if (hopefully not obviously) she is pushing out a dead baby and realising that she is the reason for it. Some people are bloody fools.

Why would someone ignore a Consultant? We don't know whether OP saw a Consultant. Why else - because a Consultant's expertise lies with high-risk births, (as it should be). For years and years the received wisdom was that the Consultant Unit was the safest place and that home births weren't safe. Once some proper research was done, i.e. the Place of Birth study in 2011 it found that for substantial numbers of women a home birth was the safest option.

Whether it is safe in OP's case is a different question - but she was trying to get a second opinion from someone qualified i.e. a midwife but not one bound by a particular hospital's protocol. As someone up thread said, hospitals differ in their policy as to how overdue a woman needs to be before an induction is 'offered', and the policy can change between pregnancies. There is some dispute whether OP was overdue or not. She thought not - I don't know if there are any hospitals which routinely induce at 4 days over?

I wish she would come back and tell us how she is getting on though.

I think we know why OP saw a consultant. Her baby's heart rate was decelerating. That makes her high risk.

This is nothing. Whatsoever to do with whether she was 40+4 or 40+12. They'd assess a baby as safer in the outside in these circumstances under 40 weeks when their heart is doing this.

This is nothing whatsoever to do with hospital protocol for 'how long overdue' and everything to do with a worrying heart trace for the baby. One which is all too often the precursor to a poor outcome.

If you turn up to hospital and they notice a deceleration you will see the consultant on duty or at the very least a registrar. I have had 4 this pregnancy and every time saw a consultant. I am not classed as high risk. A midwife will set up the monitor and can interpret it but a doctor will be called to look.

We barely have any information here. This website www.healthline.com/health/pregnancy/abnormal-fetal-heart-tracings#Decelerations3 suggests that it's not as straight forward as decels = problem. OP said the decel only happened once when she was turning over. And where is the respect? Jesus, if, God forbid, her baby did die, is this what she should come back and read? How about assuming that she's making the best decision for her and her baby given that she is in possession of far more of the facts than we are. Does anyone actually think the OP is that there not caring about whether her baby is born alive or not??
Consultant does not equal "right". Doctors often disagree about courses of action so I think it's perfectly acceptable to question someone who is insisting on a course of action that doesn't match up with the research you have done yourself.

"Awful midwife called in consultants who were like animals."

That's how we know she saw a consultant.

"For years and years the received wisdom was that the Consultant Unit was the safest place and that home births weren't safe. Once some proper research was done, i.e. the Place of Birth study in 2011 it found that for substantial numbers of women a home birth was the safest option."

This isn't an entirely fair reading of the research. A home birth for second time and plus low risk mothers had no increased risk of maternal or neonatal complications. That doesn't mean that consultant led units are inherently dangerous places.

It actually is important to have this discussion on this thread Four. If someone in a similar situation in future reads it hopefully they will seek help. What would be better? A pat on the back and "yes that's all fine dear, perfectly rational thinking".

"Jesus, if, God forbid, her baby did die, is this what she should come back and read? How about assuming that she's making the best decision for her and her baby given that she is in possession of far more of the facts than we are."

Firstly, there are a number of serious doubts about the research that she may or may not have done, which are affecting her decision, for good or for bad.

Secondly, I desperately hope that her baby is now safely delivered and that both mother and baby are well, but also that others considering a blind "Induction Bad Doctors Bad" approach, that is so often feted here, might consider that it is all rather more nuanced than that. Do question the advice, ask for the research, realise that some of it is best guess, trying to do no harm, but doctors have done a lot of work and research and lots of experience so we shouldn't just rubbish that either.

Yes, this discussion, but the tone of some of the comments are just unacceptable to me and actually wouldn't encourage a scared vulnerable woman to listen because they are too judgmental.
What would be better? A non-judgmental exploring of the issue. Has the OP considered X y and z. What conclusion did she draw. Is she aware of a b and c? Does that affect her decision? And an ultimate acceptance that this her body and her baby and she does get to make the decisions about what will happen whether we like that decision or not.

For many women 'consultant' can be a junior doctor who works for the consultant. With my first pregnancy the Consultant was just a name on my notes.

I didn't say that Consultant Units were inherently dangerous places - I was pointing out that for years and years the assumption was that home birth wasn't safe - but that when the research was done it was found not to be the case. There were certainly 'consultants' who told me it wasn't safe, with zero knowledge of home births.

Thanks for the link on decels Four, it confirms my recollections on working (in a non medical capacity) on a maternity unit. Some decels were a crash section whereas others were explained as 'normal' 'happen to everyone we just happened to be listening in' decels. Hence my initial focussing on the post dates aspect of this debate rather than the importance of a hospital delivery rather than home confinement.

I'm not a doctor or any sort of expert in this, but my experience certainly tells me that pre-labour heart deceleration is taken very seriously. My waters broke spontaneously but I failed to go into labour. I was waiting for 24 hours to be induced due to infection risk, but when I was being monitored (this was around 11pm) they noticed my DS's heart rate kept dropping. It went from being induced in the morning to being taken to theatre to get the baby out ASAP, not wanting to put him through the stress of labour.

Please listen to the doctors, they know what they are talking about and only have your and your baby's health as their priority. Inductions and caesarians are very expensive, so why would the NHS suggest you have one if it wasn't necessary.

Did op respond to any of these posts? Don't think we heard from her after the original post.

OP: hope whatever birth you had resulted in a healthy baby to snuggle. Interested to hear back from you how you got on.