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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

HELP NEEDED!!!!!! - HOME BIRTH AT 42+ WEEKS PREGNANT

100 replies

kimberleyholistic · 04/01/2016 00:53

Hi,
This is a long shot, I am overdue and looking to find a midwife/doula, anyone with some experience where I can give birth at home.

I was due to give birth at UCLH birthing pool, but because I am overdue my 2 weeks (their records) 4 days (by my records, from date of conception) it has caused concern.

Long story short, I agreed to go in for monitoring baby's heart beat, whilst moving positions, baby's heart beat dipped (I know now is normal). Awful midwife called in consultants who were like animals. Standing around me telling me I am now high risk and I have to have an induction. They even said better an induction than a dead baby. I am a very strong woman and have really done my research on EDD dates, induction, truth about still births etc... Although I was in floods of tears and an emotional wreck, three hours of continuos monitoring, it was shown baby is healthy and so am I. At this point I was able to discharge myself. I am making an official complaint as they used fear and incorrect data to try and get me induced. Effing wrong!!!!

No way am I allowing these controlling and manipulative midwives to intervene. My question - is there any independent midwives out there or if anyone can recommend solutions to a home birth??

I am have labour pains slowly, but I truly baby won't come out until I feel safe. I am setting up a fb page to help all women stand their ground.

Thanks
Kimberley

OP posts:
Sparklycat · 04/01/2016 09:55

I really wanted a natural water birth at home or at an independent birthing centre but due to complications the consultant recommended induction on my due date. I could have refused to go in for induction but if the consultant is recommending it then I was sure it was for the best. I'm glad I did as my babies heart rate was dipping and flat lining when I was in being monitored for induction and had to have an emergency section under GA. If I'd not gone in for induction and not been monitored that day she might have died. Please just go along with what they say. I was upset for a bit that I didn't get to be awake for my babies birth but now I'm just thankful she's here.

Chelseagran · 04/01/2016 09:58

Contact an IMUK midwife www.imuk.org.uk They do have a rule that they cannot book women after 39 weeks but they can talk to the insurers on a case by case basis to get permission. If they cannot look after you during labour they will be at least able to monitor you, give evidenced based information and antenatal care. Hope all goes well.

DropYourSword · 04/01/2016 09:58

But that's the problem fourormore, when counselling someone about risks etc people tend to find that receiving uncomfortable facts and statistics is a form of emotional manipulation, when often it's not, but a required discussion to ensure that the patient understands the risks of declining treatment.

WifeofDarth · 04/01/2016 10:10

I sincerely hope that the OP is not reading this thread now, the aggression in many of the responses is stunning, and hardly helpful.
If we can't respond with compassion to a fellow mother likely to have a baby in the next week, I wonder who does merit compassion.

Has it ever occurred to you that someone who is referring to consultants as "like animals" isn't actually in a rational state of mind? Nobody is asking the OP to submit to "unnecessary intervention", but to discharge yourself against medical advice without looking at an alternative way forward is nothing short of stupidity.
Well she's describing how she felt, and at 9 months pregnant anyone is entitled to be extremely sensitive. HCPs should take this in to account when discussing with patients. It sounds to me that the conversation was not well handled by the professionals if OP left the appointment in this state.

And just to clarify, I am not advocating that anyone discharge themselves against medical advice. That's why I was suggesting a second check on the heart rate, as a starting point for the next conversation. It is unlikely that we will ever know for sure whether intervention was necessary or not, as most outcomes are good, and whatever the outcome, it is impossible to know what would have happened had another choice been made.

What does matter is how the mother feels that she was able to input into the decision making process. Whatever the outcome, it is important that the mother is not under the impression that she was strong armed into / out of something against her will. For this to happen she needs to be allowed by the HCPs to engage in a meaningful conversation, one where she is given the impression that they take her points on board, and an opportunity to ask plenty of questions. If they have time to have more than one doctor at her bedside, or to have her in hospital for an induction they have time to listen to her for 20 minutes. HCPs can trust that women want the best for their babies, and don't need to be prescribed to.

And I wouldn't take seriously anyone who pretends that dating a pregnancy is an exact science, mother or HCP!

Chippednailvarnish · 04/01/2016 10:25

It sounds to me that the conversation was not well handled by the professionals if OP left the appointment in this state

But as none of us were there, this along with the majority of your post is complete speculation.

AndNowItsSeven · 04/01/2016 10:28

The best help anyone can give you is to advise you to have an induction in hospital. Why would you be so selfish as to risk the life of your baby.

Whatthefreakinwhatnow · 04/01/2016 10:36

No midwife in the land is going to agree to a home birth when you are this overdue, you are being ridiculous.

Doctors and midwives don't tell you you need an induction for the fun of it - trust me I've begged for one before now and been turned down- they want you to have one as for every day you go over now, the greater the risk of you placenta giving out and your baby dying.

I cannot believe anyone would be so reckless with the LIFE of their baby, I am angry by how selfish you are being OP.

As PP said, stop dicking around on Facebook and listen to the HCPs! Get a second opinion if you really need one, just do it soon.

Topsy34 · 04/01/2016 10:51

I'm in agreement with wifeofdarth.

Kimberly, can I suggest a few things?
First a few deep breaths, try to take 5 and clear your head

Ultimately whatever you decide you can not be made to do anything, but please do not disregard everything instantly.

I'm a home birther and completely get where you are coming from, I had early on indicators of potential issues and declined consultant care.

If I were in your situation, I would be looking at a few things, make a call to the hospital and speak to the supervisor of midwives, say it is urgent and you would like to meet with her.

Then request another round of monitoring under midwife care

With regards to baby's hb, was it a deceleration or was it variation. Variations are normal a deceleration not really normal. Are you getting your normal movement? Keep a track of it, it shouldn't be more or less, it should be the same numbers.

Have a look at methods of induction, my doula and I discussed induction and she said you can negotiate a lot, instead of a drop you can have low dose to trigger contractions and then your body takes over . I'm not saying induction is the way to go nor am I saying don't do it, I think you would be wise to consider your options and make notes in preparation to meet with SOM.

I'm going to drop you a pm with a link for support

I do sincerely hope you are not on this as the aggressive replies you have received won't be helping.

Crunchymummyto4 · 04/01/2016 10:55

Hiya. I have been overdue by 2 weeks in all my pregnancies so far. I completely understand why you would want to refuse induction as is your right. I had an induction with my last birth and it led to a forceps delivery. I was induced on the basis that my waters broke but labour did not commence within 24 hours. I have since read research which suggests that the risk of infection in this scenario is still very low up to 72 hours after waters go. Had I known this, or how horrendous my experience of induction would be then I would have refused and I plan to refuse any such intervention with my current pregnancy unless there is a genuine reason for concern for my baby based on actual fact rather than vague scaremongering from medical professionals.
I am planning a home birth. Much to the horror of most people I know. Every individual has the right to decide for themselves and their child what birth plan they have. That is the whole point of having a birth plan. I respect other mothers who choose to be guided by their midwives and I also respect and support other mothers who do not think their doctors are providing them with advice that suits their beliefs and research. Doctors and midwives are quite often influenced by hospital policies and there is set time by which they are told to advise induction based on size of baby, due date, early eupture of membranes etc. I suggest the OP joins a support group on face book for overdue mums who may share her views on refusing induction as I do. No mum would want to put themselves or their child at risk but that does not mean to say they are doing so by refusing interventions which also carry a number of risks which a lot of expectant mothers seem to bery ill-informed about.

You are being responsible. You have accepted monitoring and you trust your body and your baby. Stick to your guns lovely mamma. I know as a mother you only want what is right for you and your child. Induction may not be necessary for you and if you felt your baby was at risk, I know you would do whatever was necessary for you and your baby but it is perfectly OK that you question any and all advice from consultants and midwives to make an informed choice. You can have your home birth and i would encourage you to go for it with support from people who understand your choices. There is a great SUPPORTIVE group called home birth uk on facebook. I think you may find much more informed and understanding people to talk to there xx

AndNowItsSeven · 04/01/2016 11:01

Crunchy I am glad you babies survived, you and your babies were very lucky. The ops baby may not be so lucky.
Personally I think court orders should be made when mothers risk their babies life's against medical advice.

scaevola · 04/01/2016 11:06

I do not agree, and think that a woman should have exactly the same rights to consent, or not, to medical procedures as anyone else.

My personal opinion is however that once you have a symptom as serious as a deceleration, it is reckless to go against medical advice, especially as periodic decelerations are so very associated with still birth.

It is however entirely OP's choice.

Minibelle · 04/01/2016 11:06

I don't underatand attitudes like yours at all. They could have cut me open with no anaesthetic if that was the only way to deliver my babies safely.

My birth plan was do whatever to get them here safely.

Do you really think you know better than hcp?

Whatthefreakinwhatnow · 04/01/2016 11:07

crunchy, it's all very well saying inductions can cause risks and yes, I agree an induction with no underlying issues before 42 weeks is probably unnecessary, but the placenta can only work efficiently for so long. DD1 was overdue, born at 42+1 and I suffered a massive haemorrhage as the placenta gave out and detached from my uterus - if this had happened at home I would have died before the ambulance could get to me.

I just don't see why you would want to risk the lives of your baby and yourself by ignoring medical advice!!

MushroomMama · 04/01/2016 11:07

I don't understand the big problem about inductions. For some reason I can't go into labour naturally it just doesn't happen at all.

Both my labours have been calm and controlled processes and both induced.

Your baby had heart issues this is dangerous and you can't mess about. This is no longer about you this is about the baby you love.

Yes the doctors could of worded it better but they are concerned for you and the baby. They are giving you the reality of the situation. Now you could listen to a bunch of strangers but personally I'd go with the doctor who's trained for 5+ years and attended every birth you can think of and trust them right now

Peregrina · 04/01/2016 11:22

Reading these responses make me feel angry. Here's a woman who is desperately worried but what support has she had from the majority? Emotional blackmail has no place in advising anyone of the best option. If the HCPs were really worried about her health they should have found someone senior to sit down and explain rationally exactly why they felt the induction was necessary.

An independent midwife called Virginia Howes has written a book about her experiences, (can't remember the title off-hand.) She talks about a very similar case where there was a woman who was absolutely determined to have nothing to do with the hospital, or any HCP as far as I remember. Virginia was able to win her trust and persuade her that in this case, intervention was absolutely vital and the woman and baby both came through the experience unscathed. Emotional blackmail would not have won that lady over and the outcome would have been tragic.

Whatthefreakinwhatnow · 04/01/2016 11:33

It's not blackmail, it's to the point advice. The OP doesn't have time to dick around doing research, she needs to have her baby!

Harsh it may be, but it comes from a bunch of people who have had bad experiences and we don't want it to happen to OP too

RJnomore1 · 04/01/2016 11:34

Look I'm not going to emotionally blackmail at all but op I a worried for you. You're in early labour with a baby who has already show signs of distress and currently you've got no monitoring/medical support going on.

You need some. Do you have a birthing partner who can stand firm as to the medical choices you want to make? You sound very alone and scared.

JE1234 · 04/01/2016 12:37

The number of people on this thread who think a hospital can stop you from leaving is impressive. If you want to leave they cannot make you stay, no matter how unwell they think you will make you or your baby. No, it does not mean they really think it was ok because they let her leave. No, they wouldn't have made her sit down with another consultant. She had made her wishes clear and discharged herself despite foetal distress. Propagating myths will not help anything when the only fact the OP had given is that her baby's heart rate is decelerating which may mean she NEEDS intervention for this baby is to be born alive. She and we are not the ones to judge that. The baby should be being constantly monitored and the advice of those who actually know what they're talking about followed.

nannyplumislostinspace · 04/01/2016 13:38

So according to your logic, if I was a strong person my twin boys would not have been still born. Thanks for that.

Ffs listen to your doctors and stop being so feckless. 11 babies are still born every day in England and Wales.

Whatthefreakinwhatnow · 04/01/2016 14:24

Is it really so many Nanny? ShockSad

JE1234 · 04/01/2016 15:12

It is 11 everyday or 1 in 216 births of which recent research shows 50% are avoidable. Stillbirth is the worst thing I have ever experienced and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I know sentiments on this thread have been strongly worded including by me but there will be several women, including me, on this thread who would give their own lives to have had the opportunity to intervene when the baby was in distress.

Whatthefreakinwhatnow · 04/01/2016 15:43

I'm so sorry JE and others, I'm lucky in that DD was fine and it was me that was effected by being so overdue - I can't even begin to understand how it must be to deliver your baby stillborn Sad

I really, really hope the OP has seen sense now and is back at the hospital.

5madthings · 04/01/2016 16:22

Op I have been in the position of declining induction. All my babies turned up 42 weeks and ds3 was either 18 or 21 days late depending on dates, the Dr's couldn't agree.

I opted to have expectant management with monitoring and also scans to check on fluid levels, placental function and blood flow, spoke to Dr's and midwives and made an informed choice to wait a bit longer. Helped by the fact that my babies were very active so no concerns at all over movement, apart from with no 5 anterior placenta meant I didn't feel movement as much and other issues made me feel it was best to get baby out at term plus ten.

None of my babies looked overdue at birth and midwives said placenta was fine each time,babies were vernixy, not dry skinned. Etc. For whatever reason I go slightly longer than usual.

There is not as much info on post 42wks as so few women go thst long, hospitals vary sone induce at term plus ten, some at plus twelve and some at plus fourteen days. My hospital changed their policy inbtween two of my children. It was quite funny that with one I was told I was irresponsible for wanting to go past ten days and yet by the next baby their own policy was term plus fourteen...

Op it would be helpful if you could clarify whether it was a declaration,babies heartbeat goes up when moving, was it an issue with moniter? Where they happy with the monitoring after that?

Also even if induced you can still have an active labour, with Ds4 I got fed up with waiting at term plus fifteen, came in they broke my waters and an hour later he was born in birth pool. All of mine have been active, mobile labour's even with dd where I needed continual monitoring. I explained what I needed and worked with the midwife to stay mobile. There are wireless monitors for example in some hospitals.

I know somwtimes consultants/Dr's do go down the if you don't so this the baby will due route, I had it written in big letters on my notes thst I had declined induction. That's fine.

The Dr's don't always follow best practice or offer individualised care, I have had Dr's arguing at the end of my bed infront of me about what they thought was best.
When preg with dd one Dr looking at scan notes saying she would be 9lb, then looking at me and saying I would need a c section as I was too small to deliver thst big a baby... Had he read my notes he would have seen I had already had natural birth for three babies over 9lb and one of almost 11lb born into a pool easily... I pointed this out and he still tried to insist I couldn't birth a big baby.

This time at my twelve week booking app and scan they offered to book me in for induction at 37 wks just because I have had big babies, I declined and said I will wait and see how I and baby are. I have extra scans at 28, 32 and 34 weeks to check on size etc. Am happy with this esp as extra scans in third trimester are shown to reduce stillbirth rate. Some trusts, Essex I think have just brought in a third trimester scan as standard to try and help lower still birth rate

Sadly too many babies are stillborn and in the main we don't know why. Statistically highest levels of stillbirth are at 37-38wks but we don't induce all women before then to reduce thst. It is about balancing risks and those risks will vary for each woman and each woman will and is entitled to make different choices. Harassing a woman because you may make a different choice yourself isn't helpful.

Induction does bring risks, including death of baby or mother. Rare but it happens, c section has risks and vaginally birth has risks, it will never be a risk free process. Each woman in conjunction with her hcp needs to make an informed choice, and we will all make different choices, thst is fine but dialogue between patient and hcp needs to be respectful, I have had some brilliant hcp and others who were not so great. Of course pregnancy is an emotional time, the op needs supporting so she can gain trust in those looking after her and her baby.

Please op call and speak to supervisor of midwives, arrange a scan/monitoring so you can make an informed choice. Always try and keep an open mind, I make an optimal birth plan and a if this happens one... I go through it all with those in charge of my care. So that I know if X happens ie meconium in waters then yes I will have continuous monitoring bit rather than laying down I need to kneel up or sit on birth ball etc. Work with the hcps they will do this, sometimes you do have to stand your ground a bit, when I had ds3 the labour ward was quiet, the Dr saw how overdue ds3 was and was horrified, wanted me on my back k on moniter. I questioned why when the traces we had done and intermittent monitoring showed he was fine. My very young midwife went and fetched the midwife in charge who came checked me over, checked baby over and told the Dr we would call him if needed. Ds3 was born not long after as I knelt on the bed. There was no reason for concern but the head midwife said the Dr basically wasn't busy, I was the most unusual case being so overdue and he probable did have concerns because it is unusual but actually observations of myself and baby showed there was no need.

It is hard for the Dr's and of course they err on the side of caution at times. But you can work with them.

Daysleeper1985 · 04/01/2016 23:38

5madthings your post is informative and brilliant. I just hope OP is ok out there somewhere xxx

ispymincepie · 07/01/2016 15:07

So much misinformation on this thread I wouldn't even know where to start but OP I'm with you on this one. It scares me that so many people have such misplaced trust in doctors, many of whom have never even seen a normal low risk birth! Fwiw, I was 'offered' an induction at 40+10 with my first and was treated appallingly when I declined dispite having made an informed decision. I was eventually induced at 40+15 and had an easy delivery of a healthy baby who was showing no signs of postmaturity. Many countries consider 43weeks a normal gestation and better outcomes. I wish people would do some independent research before being so critical. OP if I were you I would contact your supervisor of midwives to discuss things. Dispite what people seem to think you do not have to be induced, deliver in hospital or even be attended by anyone. Good Luck 💐

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