Children allowed on delivery suite (during labour, not after birth)

[SpamAnderson]

I had my heart set on using MLU or preferably a homebirth (so my DH, DM and dds could be present). My BMI is elevated and now they think baby is large so won't let me have a hb or use MLU. My eldest dd (will be 8 when baby arrives) is very mature for her age and has always been very interested in childbirth and is very excited to meet and help care for her brother would love to be at the birth. The youngest (will be 6) says she'd like to be there but she is far younger mentally and I think she would be traumatised. She'd be easily pacified with spending the day with her Nannie instead of a boring hospital though. The eldest, not so much!
Anyway, long story short, has anyone had their child (under 16) present at a hospital birth? I have promised DD1 that I will ask the mw and consultant when I next meet them but I have a feeling that they would say no due to her age?

I would firstly be extremely surprised if any labour ward allowed children in. My hospital doesn't even allow kids at the 20 week scan, and only allows them at specific times on the postnatal ward.

Labour is going to be a busy, perhaps even occasionally chaotic process where everyone needs to be calm and collected. You might say your partner will supervise the child, but honestly that's not what his role there is meant to be. I would be beyond surprised if a labour ward either had a policy of allowing free access to kids (who'd need toilet, breaks etc, and is a kid) or if they bent their policies to accommodate an exception based on maternal preference however mature the parents say the child is.

So in terms of being allowed, I would definitely say a labour ward where people are potentially screaming, or bleeding, or being rushed off for emergency c sections is not the place for a child.

In terms of whether a child should be there. I'd honestly say no. Yes they would potentially be there at a home birth, but a hospital I cocked the choices, circumstances and comfort of many others as it's not one persons home.

I cocked = involves*

I hope that this is a joke as I think labour is really unsuitable for a child, it can so easily go wrong and would be very distressing then.

I'd be very concerned about a child being present, even if allowed by the hospital. If things go wrong then it could be very traumatising, even if DD is quickly ushered out the room and isn't present for the worst of it. It would be awful for her to have to wait down the corridor in a room with DH with both worrying themselves silly about what's happening while OP is left without a birth partner. I'd also be very concerned about the long term impact being present for a traumatic birth would have on DD if/when she went on to have family herself in the future.

Am at our delivery suite right now. Here's a pic I took of the rules.

So postnatal ward doesn't allow children under 14. Delivery suite doesn't allow anyone except birth partner.

You can never predict how labour will go, and even quick easy past labours are no guarantee for future ones

I gave birth to my first 4 easily, no drama all calm and lovely but it didn't stop my labours almost going disastrously wrong with babies 5 and 6. In fact when I had number 6 I had my mum with me, she's still traumatised from the cord prolapse I had that led to a crash section. The student midwife was shaking and in tears even though the baby survived so there is no way one of my older children wouldn't have been affected had they been there

None of the labour wards at any of the NHS hospitals I have worked at allow children on the them. Most postnatal wards don't either, and rightly so in my view.

It doesn't sound like your birth is going to be low risk if you can't use the MLU so this is even more reason why I would think it inappropriate. The medical team are there to help deliver your baby, nothing more. You can't predict how your child might react, just like no one can predict what will happen with your birth. The priority is you and baby, not an educational experience for an 8YO.

Even if your birth goes OK, that's not to say every other woman on the ward's birth will. Having your 8YO DD there wont just impact on you, but potentially everyone else on the ward, staff included. I would be beyond shocked if it were allowed.

The hospital I'm currently using and the one for my last birth didn't allow anyone on the labour ward except named birth partners, so I'd be surprised if it was allowed.

I don't think this is allowed. However you need to consider that your risks and place of birth now make it more likely you will have an assisted birth

I recently had a scary birth and my DH was extremely traumatised. A child seeing that would've been horrific.

Well my hospital allowed it, ds1 was thete when I had dd, dh took him home after the birth once we were settled abd then came back a few hours later bringing ds2, he was 9? We were still in the labour room as were going to be discharged from thete but confusion over meds I was taking meant I then stayed in a night. But ds2 got to meet dd in the labour room and as I said ds1 was thete for the birth along with dh and it wasn't a problem.

I checked with midwife and hospital eyc beforehand, they said it was unusual but you are allowed two people and we're fine with it as long as wr had a plan should ds1 need to leave. It was fine though, and the midwives praised ds1. When dd was three days old I took her to a concert at ds1's school, he was playing in it, and the midwife who was there at birth was at the concert as her daughter went to the same school. They came up to say hi, we had chatted about school etc during the labour as it turned out her daughter was in the same school year as ds1 and they knew each other.

I think op only you know your dd and it's what you and your husband are comfortable with, speak to your midwife and the unit you will deliver in. It's an unusual request but not unheard of and can be done.

No Urethra.

I am simply advising that it is possible for any woman to choose for herself to birth at home and she can decline to go to hospital if she wishes. It cannot be 'allowed' or 'forbidden' by MWs. It isn't blackmail to insist on one if a woman has weighed up the risks and benefits for herself.

I wouldn't advise any woman to make a choice either way, but many women are not aware that there are choices.

But a bit silly to go against medical opinion. A healthy baby is the priority.

Yes, you are simply advising that if you refuse to go to a hospital you can leverage the hcps to come to you against their professional judgement because they wont leave you alone to the consequences of the stupid choices you have made.
Of course its blackmail. If the midwife says they dont believe it is safe for you have a homebirth and you say tough Im having one anyway, you cant make me do anything, and if you dont come I'll do it alone, thats blackmail.

I dont believe there are very many women that stupid, but by all means advise the ones you can find.

Disagree urethra. Midwives have to follow their protocols, but sometimes blindly following that isn't the best thing for a particular woman. It's not blackmail to make informed choices about your own health care. Frexample I was "not allowed" a home birth because of scan dates. Which I knew for a fact were wrong. Midwives had no choice but to go by their protocols and use scan dates, it isn't an individual judgement they're making. So I might have chosen to override that protocol. Same might apply with baby size, if I was a broad 6'2'' and had easily birthed two big babies before I'd apply different standards to myself than the protocol.

Informed choices about your own health care really doesn't equal 4 years of training plus experience plus a multidisciplinary team on hand plus appropriate equipment should something go wrong though, does it?

I'm with Urethra. If you're advised that a home birth is not advisable in their professional opinion (they can't tell you you're not allowed, of course not), and you decide to ignore that advice and effectively force them to come and help deliver at a high risk birth then you're putting that midwife in a horrible position, both on a professional and personal level. Horrible attitude to take.

If we're talking about personal experiences cat - my sister (a nurse of 20 years) decided she would ignore the midwives who advised against a home birth for her DC3. She felt that she was making an informed decision based on her professional knowledge and the fact that she'd had 2 trouble free deliveries. It was only towards the end when her family and friends persuaded her that the midwives were simply HCPs like her who wanted the best for her and the baby, that she wobbled. It was a very good job she did - it was a totally different delivery and she needed intervention that she wouldn't have been able to have at home.

Disagree all you like, but stop pushing the ill informed nonsense that women can choose whatever they want, just because they want it. Its unhelpful and dangerous.

*"No Urethra.

I am simply advising that it is possible for any woman to choose for herself to birth at home and she can decline to go to hospital if she wishes. It cannot be 'allowed' or 'forbidden' by MWs. It isn't blackmail to insist on one if a woman has weighed up the risks and benefits for herself.

I wouldn't advise any woman to make a choice either way, but many women are not aware that there are choices."*

This is true. Unfortunately so many women are nowhere near as smart as they think they are and not capable of accurately weighing up the risks.

It's not my judgement vs midwife's judgement, it's my judgement vs centrally set protocol. Centrally set protocol doesn't know when I had a shag, or that I live 5 minutes drive from the hospital. Or for baby size, I'd want to make sure centrally set protocol differentiated on size of mother before I accepted it blindly as telling me the lowest risk for me. It doesn't know for some women that they might be plain terrified of being in a hospital environment, so not able to labour normally there, increasing risk of need for intervention and therefore overall risk.

I think some people don't understand just how little scientific evidence there is behind these protocols in the first place.

Obviously I don't know your sister's exact situation SirChenjin, and I'm glad to hear she had a good outcome. I could balance that with a friend who had an emergency at a homebirth situation, and her midwives told her afterwards that baby may well not have survived if she had been in hospital. It's a question of a delicate balance of risks so anecdotal outcomes doesn't really tell us much.

I was merely giving an example of where I have more information about risk than that which the official recommendation is based on. If the scan dates had not been in error (as they can statistically be) midwife would have been happy with homebirth for me at the point we discussed this. It didn't happen for other reasons as more information came up which tipped the balance of risks in the other direction so I preferred to be in hospital.

Responding v wuickly - protocols are based on best practice (lower level) and robust higher evidence level for more serious problems. To claim otherwise is incorrect. Best practice/evidence based practice is still better than a lay person who actually knows very little - and to put midwife in a situation where she is called to a highrisk birth because a woman has ignored all previous advice from her/him is awful.

I don't believe that's what your friend wad told by NHS midwives. Can you elaborate?

The protocols for "allowing" homebirths are typically crude cut-offs in terms of weight or dates. In real life the situation isn't that simple, risks don't jump overnight or across a weight threshold, and there are other factors in play. OP will know from talking to her midwife whether it was a technical you're just across some threshold or a we're really worried about this baby. OP will know any other factors in play. It's worth reminding her that at the end of the day it is her decision if she's not comfortable with the recommendations.

I'm a great stickler for scientific evidence, but I do like to know what the evidence actually says. If someone is unsure, my personal recommendation would be to read the NICE guidelines and get yourself informed. That will usually tell you if it's a "strong scientific evidence" or a "we've just always done it this way" or a "just the personal preference of someone at the local hospital" kind of protocol.

I don't know the full story with friend's baby, and it's not my story to tell really. I understand it was to do with when cords would be cut in hospital. Friend was concerned the homebirth might have put her daughter at risk, was reassured by HCP (I don't know if this was the consultant or the midwife) that actually it might have helped save her.

At 8 I wouldn't.

Having delivered several DC with whale song/gentle mooing - my last one was turned into shoulder dystocia full on medical emergency blood bath with 15 people in the room within the space of 5 minutes.

A motivated teenager - maybe - but an 8 year old... Not so much. A HB is different somehow - since she'd be in her own environment - and could probably be shepherded out unobtrusively.

I think some people don't understand just how little scientific evidence there is behind these protocols in the first place.

There is more scientific evidence for the protocols than there is for "I want what I want and I don't care what the experts say". The protocols are there for your safety.

Within 5 mins my birth went from fine to almost disasterous.

Raised BMI and big baby are key indicators for shoulder dystocia, which is what happened to me. Within 30 seconds there were 20 people in the theatre (forceps delivery), and both my baby and I nearly died (him from lack of oxygen and me from PPH).

No way would i have a child in that environment. it damaged my husband enough.

I think that we should let children have their childhood and not put them into situations that are beyond their years in the thoughts that it might be a nice bonding exercise - it might easily become a trauma instead.