I don't think "too posh to push" cs should be allowed on the NHS

[SoupDragon]

And by "too posh to push" I mean can't be ar$ed to do it "naturally, want to fit the birth into a busy schedule or want it early to avoid stretch marks. That kind of thing.

Obviously where there is a medical need (and by this I include maternal fear/distress where it can not be allayed beforehand} then yes, they should be provided by the NHS.

In the same way, I did not expect the NHS to provide me with a birthing pool, pay for the electricity and increased heating costs or provide me with food for my home waterbirth.

(yes, I know this will descend into popcorn and hard hats but I don't want to clutter up the other posters thread )

expat,

I'm not going to jump on you. You're right on about all the terrible things that are wrong with the system here. But we also have good things and I just don't want stories like yours to make people think that everything here is terrible. Unfortunately we have to wait for a President that cares more about domestic issues and less about starting wars before we will have any change.

3andnomore - I appreciate that people are able to have breech babies delivered (I was breech and natural birth).
However, there wasn't just my daughters position to consider; I'd also got high blood pressure (they batted pre-eclampsia about, couldn't really come to the decision as I only had a few symptoms but they did write that condition on my notes but never actually verbally told me for sure if they believed I had a "mild" version of it).
Anyway, I was advised my my midwife, by several consultants (not to mention a barrage of people) to have a section. They felt they couldn't turn the baby because I had an anterior placenta, also worried about my b/pressure. They knew she was going to be a "larger" baby (as it was she was just under 9lbs). So I had everybody telling me to consider a section.
Added onto the stuff I'd gone through when pregnant (brother being diagnosed with cancer, grandmother hospitalised with a heart attack, BIL's brother dying of SADS, mum breaking her arm and having to have an op to correct the damage, sister being involved in a nasty car accident, dad suffering from high blood pressure and being signed off work, not to mention a load of stress at work amongst other things) I was emotionally drained and not too optimistic of a positive outcome if I chose a natural route.
Like I said, there was no medical reason why I couldn't have had a natural delivery, so I could be classed as TPTP - but I dont care. I'd do what I did a thousand times over. I had a positive experience, I bonded straight away with my daughter.
I'd never tell anybody they shouldn't have a section / should pay to go private or that the decision they took was wrong. At the end of the day, people need to choose what is right for them. And when they're paying their taxes, I dont see the problem with it if they feel that the answer is a section.

ELF sounds like you went through so much during your pregnancy.

Also sounds as though you had many factors to consider, as opposed to a 'simple' breech position. I'm glad you had a positive experience - and nothing about any of that classes you as 'too posh', anyway!

Me, I'll probably be classed as TOTP (too old)

Elf, I wasn't criticising your decision, merely stating that a Breech Birth can happen completely natural, only that that si something many M/w 's and Consultants aren't to happy with, and therefore often the option is not given!It was more a general statement, iykwim!
And don't get me wrong, I don't know how I would feel if I was falling pg again and then would find out baby was breech, I truely don't know if I would decide on natural Birth or not...but at least I am aware of the possibilities and whatever, but I know a lot of people are often just scared out of any notion of natural Birth when Baby is breech!

3, thats true too - even my lovely OB (who is very supportive of women's choice etc) said something along the lines of 'not many hospitals will advise vaginal delivery of breech babies these days'. Which did shock me a bit, since I thought that depended on what sort of breech and a hundred other factors too.

elf...your situation is certainly not one that falls into tptp.
it was the best for you, your family & baby...not chosen purely for convenience ..it pinpoints just how complex this subject is,.

I've only had time to read the first few posts, but I couldn't resist adding my voice to those who agree wholeheartedly with the op. If there is a medical reason, then fine - if not, the woman should pay for a cs.

And I know someone well who had two 'too posh to push' cs - she selected the dates (early, as she was terrified of "looking like a whale with god-awful stretch marks all over me" (her words)) and fitted them around her schedule. And tying in with someone's point about people like my friend finding children a bit of an intrusion into their lives', sure enough there were maternity nurses, nannies and babysitters all the time. She used to say to me "God, how do you look after two kids on your own? I couldn't"

Too sensible to suffer is a phrase I have heard from someone who had a section.

My first son was an emergency section and I am so grateful the option was there as he would have died without it. I had my next two children by exit a and am pleased I did. Just grateful to have three healthy (now) children after losing 2 and having lots of problems.

Satine, how awful....why did that friend have Kids at all? What was the point, or was it the latest must have??? Obviously your firned must be a lovely person in other ways, otherwise you probably wouldn't be friends, but it must be difficult at times for you to hear this stuff!

have also heard too smart to stretch ( on here, yesterday ) and too smart to suffer

the implication being you are stupid to go for a vaginal birth.
because a c,s is pain & complication free

i know i have been guilty of saying TPTP...i guess all these glib phrases do is p*ss people off and make them feel guilty about their choices..i am going to really try hard not to say TPTP

a lot of women have clearly had electives for valid reasons..not just to avoid stretchamrks or to book a bikini wax!

LOL @ stretch mark - I had a section and still look like a road map, but with a big bypass across them all from where they cut me.

A friend had her baby last week, by section. 2nd baby but breech position & she'd been losing water for about two weeks so not enough fluid to turn her in. My hospital would reccommend breech births "normally" on second + babies, not the first, as then they have some indication of how a body is going to react as they have experience labour previously (this is what one of my consultants told me). At my friends hospital (about 10 miles away) they suggest sections for ALL breechies.

i cant understand mums that are "too posh to push" i was gutted when i was give an emeregncy c section with ds1 and was determined all the way thru my pregnancy with ds2 that i wa gonna have a natural birth until 36 weeks when he was approx 7lb 2oz and the doctor told me that they were not happy with me having a natural birth due to the fact that my previous scar could come open. again i was gutted as i really wanted to be in and out asap rather then spend a week in bed.

Elf, yeah everything everywhere depends highly on the Hospital and the particular consultants and M/w's under wich mercy you are, sigh!
Thing is though, every labour in every woman can vary soooo much, so, that logic of that consultant there really doesn't make all that much sense to me, tbh....but of course it's nice that that Consultant at least is pro some Breech Birth trial of labour, I suppose....!
Must say I am very glad that I never had to made a decision on what sort of Birth because of Breech presentation, as it must be a very difficult decision indeed!
As for the Stretchmark thing, there is apparently a theory that says that most strechmarks will devellope in the last month of pg, as usually a woman becomes the biggest then...apparently, but this is just pure hear say, a lot of famous to posh to push ladies tend to have their C-section a month before edd just to forego that....and as much as I can see that when you are in the public eye there is a lot of pressure on looks, etc....from the point of view of the Baby surely that is just wrong (if that is the case, I mean, hypothetically now ;))
Saying that, that theory would not have worked with me and ys, lmao, rofl, as with him I didn't show until about 20 weeks and then by 24/26 weeks people asked me if I was due any day now as my bump was the size it was at the end of term with my other 2...incidently ys also gave me the most stretchmarks, until then I got away so lightlely, sigh, only 2 on each side with each pg before him, bleurgh! Never mind eh, am to old anywya to show my midriff, and thanks to the C-section I had with him I have a not so nice looking skinflap anyway, lol!

lulumama, nice post - I love the way you listen and take on board, and include

I agree, tptp is a dodgy expression - I wish the expression 'planned section' was used instead of 'elective': a mere statement of fact, less emotive and not relating to the reasons behind it at all.

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! Could that have been bruising, rather than stretch marks NK? I had none during pg, none after emerg section at 39+4, and none this time so far either. I have always heard that strechmarks are mostly a genetic thing - if your mother had them, you quite likely will etc. Plus, one of the few plusses to being an older Mum is you're less likely to get them - having less elastin in your skin to rupture in the first place

Hm, or you were just like my friend who though that she was really lucky to get away without, as well, she never actually could see underneath her bump, did she, until Bubba had been evicted ;) She was rather disappointed when she saw all those stretchmark afterwards...!

Lol - well, that would be possible, except that as dd had a possible threadworm infection a few weeks ago, I've taken to checking myself with a small mirror from time to time so unlike many, I'm fairly familiar with the underside of bump! Nope, sorry, think this is one area I do get to get lucky in....

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I thought I was one of the lucky ones with stretchmarks until I had my third pregnancy and he was only little (5lb5oz)

If there is no medical need it shouldn't be done (unless the parents pay) because it's more dangerous for mother and baby. I do think mothers should help their daughter understand childbirth can be an amazing experience, a powerful experience (not always but it can) and that a vaginal birth without complications is not something to fear. I was hugely helped because in my teens I used to enjoy reading my mother's NCT newsletters showing birth positions and all that stuff so informative years I had that positive conditioning.

Xenia, your idea is well intended, but I think many of our mothers probably had very medical Births, as that was as it was done, and gosh they were probably actually still lucky to some other eras, lol....but yes, more women support (Doula idea stems from this I would think) is needed....Birth used to be a female thing altogether in most societies, and even girls would attend and therefore learn about childbirth and ecepting the normetc...actually it is a similar story with breastfeeding really....in countrys like Norway where breastfeeding is the norm you don't hear much of BF problems because everyone is an expert and they learn all their lifes about it, unlike in this culture!

SweetyDarling, hell will freeze over before we Brits realise there are other ways of running a good public health system besides the NHS.

The trouble is that people are led to believe that the only alternative is a US-style system. It isn't. There are good systems in Australia, Germany, France, the Czech Republic, Belgium etc...

In the continental social insurance systems you pay compulsory health insurance as a proportion of your income so social solidarity is still involved. Each system has its flaws, but these seem to work better overall than the tax-funded NHS system in which you're at the mercy of an inefficient monolith where the money seems to disappear into a black hole.