I don't think "too posh to push" cs should be allowed on the NHS

[SoupDragon]

And by "too posh to push" I mean can't be ar$ed to do it "naturally, want to fit the birth into a busy schedule or want it early to avoid stretch marks. That kind of thing.

Obviously where there is a medical need (and by this I include maternal fear/distress where it can not be allayed beforehand} then yes, they should be provided by the NHS.

In the same way, I did not expect the NHS to provide me with a birthing pool, pay for the electricity and increased heating costs or provide me with food for my home waterbirth.

(yes, I know this will descend into popcorn and hard hats but I don't want to clutter up the other posters thread )

"the nhs is not here to judge it is here to help people"

yes, but its resources are not limitless and around the country every day doctors and hospital boards are having to make hideous decisions about who gets to try the new cancer drugs and who gets their hip replaced.

i don't agree with the arguments re smokers and obese people (drinkers with liver problems are already sometimes refused treatment), but i can see where it comes from.

Dont get too complacent-Greeny old girl

If the maternity service the NHS was doing was decent enough in the first place, then there would probably be less people asking for elective cs second time round after traumatic births and hence less cost!!

Mind you, it's prob cheaper to allow that than to pay for all the counselling!!!

It's such a personal thing - I don't think you can dictate to someone the method of their giving birth: I wouldn't insist anyone else had a cs, in the same way nobody can insist on anyone else having a vaginal delivery.

Sorrell
MANY operations that are performed under GA under the NHS are successfully performed under local or regional anaesthetic in the US at day surgeries.

I had major knee surgery under region block in a day surgery centre w/home nurse care afterwards.

Saved a bundle AND lower risk of MRSA infection at home.

Here here Helenmelon!

Yes, expat, and I'd be happy to have it done that way too, but do you think everyone should be forced to? Maybe they should.

Redbull
DON'T be bullied into having a vaginal birth if that is what you DO NOT want!

Your psychiatrist will fight your corner.

I, too, was under psychiatrist care whilst pregnant w/DD2, after horrendous PND w/DD1.

I did have vaginal deliveries w/both, but I didn't have much fear in that department.

He asked me how I felt about the birth and offered to fight my corner to help me however he could.

YOU deserve to feel good abuot this, redbull.

you don't get a choice in the US often, sorrell, b/c of the way healthcare insurance works. they will not pay for a procedure they deem 'medically unnecessary'. so if GA is not standard for your procedure, you may have to pay for the anaesthetist or CNA (certified nurse anaesthetist) and drugs costs - either all or the difference in cost between GA and local/regional block.

my dad had his prostate removed under epidural and did fine. he was sedated, of course, and so slept through the procedure.

(sorrell, i reckon that if it became the norm then people wouldn't have an issue with it. personally i am way more scared of a GA than an op in itself.)

Hear hear to your last paragraph belgianbun. Some women have very short memories. It surprises me how blase some of us are about giving away the rights of choice and sovereignty over our own bodies which were so desperately hard-won. I said earlier - does anyone want to go back to routine shave/enema/episiotomy/lithotomy stirrups, and saying "Yes, Doctor" to everything? I don't.

I hate that phrase and wish it had never been invented. When I say DD was c-section they always say "ooh too posh to push"
Feck off

i think the whole too posh to push thing is a load of balls stirred up by the media. i dont know anyone who would prefer the pain of a c section over a vaginal delivery. maybe a few celebrities do it, but that is their business. and they pay.

Yes - always makes me cross when people think you've taken the easy route by having a cs. Childbirth is hard however it happens!!

One guy at work said "oo - the easy option" - I said to him to try passing a melon sized object himself over 28.5 hours, then have major surgery to get it out, then come back and tell me about the "easy" option...funny, he couldn't think of anything to say!!

I read this thread with great attention.
I've been trying to write something constructive, but sorry today my English is really bad. but I really need to say something.
So, I'll just say that I agree with anything that greensleeves has said.

agree with everything she said, it's probably more correct?

my best mate had a c section a week before i had a difficult vaginal birth. she had a horrid time and was very jealous of me and my beaten up fanjo!! i dont think anyone takes these decisions lightly and a c section is not an easy way out. it bloody hurts afterwards and makes looking after the baby really hard. i agree that women have fought for years for choice in these matters and should keep fighting!! my big fear is someone telling me i dont need an epidural. i love pain control and think, for me it is vital. just because other people want to be brave about it doesnt mean i have to be in horrendous agony for hours! i was so afraid of being refused i went private and paid for mine. 600 euros well spent

I think what we need is a culture and a system that doesn't make women feel a failure for ANY reason connected with their childbirth. Whether they had a vaginal or C-section birth, whether they had pain relief, who delivered it.

Re. 'major abdominal surgery'- I think the word 'major' tends to be bandied about a bit. Yes, it's not minor surgery, but still. (Plus I seem to have heard worse stories about tear stitching going wrong than C-section scars).

Counselling - yes, it's good, as long as there's not this attitude lurking behind it of 'there's no fear that can't be got rid of by proper counselling.'

BTW, Normsnockers, mobile epidurals are quite common here in the Czech Republic.

Do they really refuse epidurals in the UK? I'm stunned.

They do if they have no anaesthetist, vesela, which is more common than you think.

p.s. megusta - are you in Ireland or are you UK-based and you went abroad? (since you mentioned euros)

The lack of epidurals is more because of a lack of aneasthetists available to do them for labouring women, as it's not considered an emergency.

You tend to have to ask for it for about 5 hours and then keep asking until they give one to you. And some midwives tend to try to avoid you having one as if it's their choice!! It can mean additional help required to get the baby out, as the muscles go floppy down below and you have nothing to push against.

It's wierd, though, in the UK, we're told that epidurals slow labour down, but my friend in France was told an epidural would speed hers up!!!

in a perfect world women could have what they wanted. i had an emergency c section but still had to wait in line as more cases came in which were more dangerous. i suppose if the nhs hospitals could be staffed by consultants who didn't have to rush off to private patients the system would work better for all.

i´m in spain. but am english and my sister in law didnt get an epidural during a still birth cos the anaethetist wasn't around....horrendous.

epidurals are very normal in spain, but i wanted to guarantee that i would have an anaethetist on hand and my ostetrician with me all the way through (i had heard so many horror stories). i also wanted to have the option of an elective c section. so opted to go private. was bloody expensive, but worth it, i think. no new clothes or holidays for a couple of years though!! might seem a bit extreme, but suited us. had bit of a nasty vaginal birth, but overall i am happy with the way things went. fanjo is a bit bashed up, but baby is beautiful