Who had an epidural and could you have gone on without it?

[JeuxDEnfants]

On the back of news that epodurals are being rationed... I was in last star labour for 4 hours when contractions stalled and I needed oxytocin. Without an epidural... I think I would have experienced torture. I had to beg for one. What do you think? Aibu?

I strongly feel it should be the woman's choice at all times as labour is a deeply personal event to each person and what one woman finds an empowering experience another will find horrendously traumatising. However, I think better Antenatal education should be employed to give women better coping strategies, realistic expectations of labour and so they are fully aware of the pro's and cons prior to being in excruciating pain. I've had anaesthetists walk into a room and their idea of 'informed consent' is "so do you want me to take all the pain away? Yes? Brilliant I'll get set up" and the woman has no idea that potentially it might not work, may increase her chances of having intervention and actually studies have shown that it can have an effect on the baby (however minimal, some women would choose not to have it if they know this). I don't believe that labour is the right time to be having this conversation though, I think every woman should be fully briefed on her pain relief options before she is in labour as otherwise it makes a mockery of informed consent which is what we should all be striving for.

Studies also show that better one to one care in labour can also reduce the need for epidurals and other analgesia and gives better outcomes, it comes back to more midwifery provision again, not to deny women pain relief if they ask for it but to work effectively alongside those women who perhaps had an epidural through fear, who with a bit of intensive support could have coped without.

It's all very well to say we need to reduce the epidural/emcs rate but there needs to be strategies in place to do so that is not going to harm the women and children who should be at the very centre of thoughts.

I had an epidural which FAILED ( apparenetly 5 % fail ...joy) and yes it was absolutely torture . I had pre eclampsia , was induced and contractions were coming back to back .

I had a back-to-back, brow presentation, 9lb first baby without one.

Midwife this time (currently 38wks with DC2) couldn't believe I'd done it on a MLU with only gas and air! She actually stared at me in disbelief...

I'm hoping that it means this time will seem a lot less painful!!

I was very adamant I didn't want one as didn't want labour to slow, didn't want intervention and most certainly did not want forceps. Every girl in my nct class that had an epi ended up with forceps, those who didn't, didn't. That sealed the deal for me.

I didn't have one with DD. I was induced due to PE and ended up on the synto drip. DD was also back to back. I genuinely don't remember very much of the (12 hour) labour, but I was only pushing for 15 minutes, which I think may be partly due to not having had an epi.

I hope I won't need one this time either, although I'll definitely ask for one if necessary. I'm hoping I won't be induced and I can stay at home until I'm well into established labour, but I know things don't always go to plan.

I had 2 epidurals (my 1st and 3rd), I never had to fight for them at all both times they pretty much told me to have it as they dont seem to be able to break my waters without me having epidural in because that process really freaks me out
my 2nd birth which was non induced i was fine with no epidural, so if they dont break the waters I probably wouldnt need it - but i like the option available!

I didn't have one but I have a needle phobia and would sooner have chopped off my own arm

I really don't get the reasoning that women all over the world have babies without epidurals, so you don't need one! Women all over the world also go without adequate nutrition, general anaesthetics, clean water! Pain relief is a good thing!
The UK is a pretty awful place to give birth due to the lack of midwives and the pushing of new mothers straight out the door the next day. This rationing of epidurals is just another aspect of cost-cutting, and is based on nothing less than budgets and a distrust and bad attitude to women in labour. Even with an epidural, anyone in labour has experience extreme pain, and it is up to them to decide whether to have one or not. Most people 'could' go on without one, just as anyone 'could' have root canal surgery without pain relief etc, but if you don't want to, then you have a right not to!

I had epudurals with all three of my labours. I was induced three times and knew I wanted an epidural six months into my first pregnancy. Dd got stuck (shoulder dystocia) after a long labour and I was glad to be completely numb when they got the scissors out!
Induction and epudural with ds1. I had a lovely labour. I pushed him out in 10 minutes whilst having a nice chat with midwives and dp about Xmas dinner. It was very chilled (although trying to stand up whilst epidural was still in effect wasn't my finest moment and I ended up in a heap on the floor!)
I was again induced with ds2. It was quite fast and epidural only took effect around 20 mins before he was born. It was a kiwi delivery as they lost his heartbeat and they needed to get him out fast.
I totally respect and admire people who birth with no pain relief. It wasn't for me though!

I feel sorry for those who can't have one because the anaesthetist is in surgery or somewhere. I'd be fuming!!

What are that really goin to do though? Say no?

I would be suing them if I wanted one. They could be traumatising thousands of women!

I doubt it will work

I'd plodded on plodded on and plodded on and after 16 hrs had got no where with a back to back labour n had to stay on the bed cos they kept losing the trace on the monitor. There was no way I could stay on the bed so I was talked into one. I took it

However if I was able to stay active I think I could have done without

I've had 5 dc's. Never had an epidural. Main reason is because I am a total wuss!! I can't stand the thought of a needle being pushed into my back. There were too many what ifs in my mind incase things went wrong with it.

With ds1 I had gas and air then pethedine. Both just made me sick. So for dc2-5 I had no pain relief at all. It made me far more in control. I was able to concentrate on my breathing and listen to my body.

I suppose I was one of the lucky ones though who had fairly quick labours ranging from 10 hours to 3 hours. It may well have been different if I had a marathon labour.

I do believe that most women could do it without a majority of pain relief. Fear is a huge factor in how birthing babies goes, along with where you are and how comfortable you feel in your surroundings. But this is just my opinion based on my own experiences!

I had one with dc1 and felt I needed it. Very painful back to back for 20 hours . I could have gone on in a sense that o wouldn't have died from the pain and baby would have been born anyway but my god never had pain like it.

Dc 2 I coped without, towards the end I wanted one but didnt need it at all and managed without.

poop for root canal surgery, the patient needs to be still. Due to the drilling of nerves, it would be impossible for the patient to do that without pain relief

The 'patient' doesnt need to stay still to give birth

I would definitely not support rationing epidurals on financial grounds, but I dont think I agree that a person is entitled to what ever drugs and procedures they deem necessary. A woman I think should choose how they want to give birth and be able to have what ever drugs etc that is available. But Im not sure that we should be able to determine what exactly those choices are.

There are plenty of other instances when you hear that finances prevent a patient getting treatment which seems much more 'unfair', such as life extending drugs for cancer patients not being available in some locations....

And for root canal surgery, as long as you're not allergic, the only downside to anaesthesia is a tendency to drool and talk funny for an hour or two. If you're being treated for a car accident then there is no downside to pain relief.

That is not the case for an epidural - your risk of EMCS or forceps is significantly increased.

I also begged for one after being in labour for 24 hours. I didn't get one because there were no beds in the consultant led unit. I was in the attached MLU. So I did go on without it, for another 15 hours, but it was bloody awful.
I was glad afterwards because in our hospital, you have to go on the post natal ward if you've had an epidural, and I got my own room.

i didn't have one, the fear of having a needle in my back override the pain i was having.

I would have done anything to be numb when my son was being dragged out of me after having a big episiotomy (took over half an hour of stitching inside and out) all while I could feel everything.
It was barbaric and I screamed the place down after being so calm during my 8 hour labour.
how you can say that root canal deserves numbing but women don't need an epidural I don't know. Obviously you have never been through what I had?
I woke up in pools of sweat from terrible nightmares for months after, flash backs and pain down bellow which took 7 months and an operation to sort.
For my 12-15 months of pts (which only started to reduce after taking prozac) it would have took all of 15/20 minutes to sort me adequate pain relief rather than slicing and ramming down bellow to drag my baby out.

bees see my earlier post or details of my first labour

I'm never convinced by the claims that there is a cascade of intervention. In the UK women can (in principle) choose their pain relief based on how painful labour is. Easy fast births are those which need the least pain relief. 24 hour plus labours where it is eventually revealed that the baby is back to back/has the cord around their neck etc are clearly going to need more pain relief and more intervention.

Whatever the NCT thinks, correlation is not causation.

so you of all people should understand how traumatic a non straight forward birth can be.
My midwife walked in on me sobbing just a couple of hours after having my son. I was so traumatised by the whole experience and it was made worse by the fact that no one explained to me what they were doing. Legs in stirrups and I could not see anything, only feel intense pain :(

Nobody said anything about "deserves", but of course there's no reason whatsoever to ration epidurals for someone already having a forceps delivery - that's just appalling.

TBH there is a MAJOR problem with the way stats for childbirth are being produced and presented all round. Its not just the NCT who are guilty of 'bad science'. Its an issue that needs addressing and more awareness needs to be made of the subject.

Example: All c-sections are very frequently put into stats together. Thats EMCS and ELCS. But the risks associated with both are actually very different. If you treat as one statistic you could make ELCS look more dangerous and conversely you make EMCS look safer. Which doesn't really help anyone.

Equally its actually the planned method of delivery that is important. Its no good removing the risks of an EMCS when you work out the stats for a VB as an EMCS is a possible outcome of a VB. A VB with no intervention statistically looks a lot better as a result if you do it that way.

The causation/correlation argument is another that is very badly used in maternity statistics.

We need to improve this, as it would improve our understanding of the birth process, and actually help to identity those people more at risk and be able to target resources better as a result.

Instead we are caught in this trap of ideology often influencing studies to make the conclusions they draw show what people want rather than actually what they do show and reveal a true picture.

NurseBernard: "Interesting that we all think we can't cope without one - women used to have to cope."

Yes. And Samuel Pepys had gallstones removed without anaesthetic. Fanny Burney had a mastectomy without anaesthetic.

These people who go in for major surgery these days with a general anaesthetic really don't know they're born, do they?

Oh, and my own experience. I'd been in labour for 17 hours when they gave me a syntocinon drip to speed things up. That made the labour agonisingly, excruciatingly painful, the worst pain I'd ever experienced in my life. They actually told me at first that the anaesthetist was busy blah blah - what shit. Luckily the midwife did her bit and persuaded them that I was a priority because I might have to have an emcs (which I didn't).

The idea that you should ration epidurals because pain relief for some of the worst pain you can experience isn't a priority shows the deep contempt some hospitals have for women.