Who had an epidural and could you have gone on without it?

[JeuxDEnfants]

On the back of news that epodurals are being rationed... I was in last star labour for 4 hours when contractions stalled and I needed oxytocin. Without an epidural... I think I would have experienced torture. I had to beg for one. What do you think? Aibu?

[Pyrrah]

I had one after 42 hours of labour when they announced they were starting syntocin - midwives agreed that epidural first was a very good idea since I was already exhausted.

Had to wait 2 hours from when it was ordered as 2 anaesthetists were operating and they had to find one elsewhere in the hospital - apparently no-one wanted to do mine as I've had so much spinal surgery... in the event, the girl who did it said it was the easiest one she'd put in that week.

Turned out it was a very good idea as DD was in deep transverse arrest and eventually delivered after 54 hours with rotational forceps in theatre after 3 failed ventouse attempts and 3 failed manual rotations and I was very glad that I didn't get to feel any of that!

[PetiteRaleuse]

labour wards tend not to have a dedicated anaesthetist

Maybe this is something that needs to be addressed in the long term. The OB GYN section of my hospital has three full time, and when it gets busy another is brought in from the main part of the hospital. And it isn't a huge hospital.

[thunksheadontable]

Haven't read thread but I would hope that if rationing does occur in the brave new totally financially screwed NHS, it would be available to people on syntocin drips and/or with signs of malpresentation.

My first baby was back to back and induced on the drip and I got the epidural at 4cms at which point I was bobbing around in a sea of pain, feeling like I was actually drowning in it. My second was a long labour but I did the whole thing on two cocodamol and a few puffs of gas and air while pushing.

There was just NO comparison in the pain levels. None. There was nothing in my second labour that even touched the intensity of the pain I felt even when barely dilated on my first.

[thunksheadontable]

TooImmature, I'm really sorry you lost your baby.

[mathanxiety]

It sounds to me like something that definitely needs addressing.

You can be coached through pushing and it can be done very effectively. This is how I delivered DD1.

TurtleDoves

[mindosa]

Yes its wrong. They would never eradicate pain relief for men getting their broken legs reset after a football match but screw women they can put up with any amount of pain.
Patriarchal bullshit

[CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger]

back to back baby and a syntocin drip .... ouch. Tried to go as far as I could with just gas and air (the pethadine just made me throw up) but eventually asked for an epidural, although it only worked on 1/2 of my body the relief was just indescribable.

I'd like to know what other cuts to patient care/treatment are being suggested within the NHS

[HmmThinkingAboutIt]

DAILY FAIL ALERT Another article on this

Crap article. But the most interesting this are the comments and whats best rated. Unusual for the FAIL.

[trumphy]

The midwives strongly recommended me having an epidural after having to put me on oxytocin and I had been in and out of hospital for four days! So I was exhausted by that time, plus I had a hardened cervix. They told me it would be unfair to up the contractions with the oxytocin and not offer me adequate pain relief, I gratefully accepted! When the epidural kicked in it was lovely! I started to fall asleep! Just as well I had it as it was touch and go whether I would need a c-section, I ended up with an episiotomy and suction cup/ventouse(however you spell it). They spent 40 minutes stitching me up and I was blissfully unaware.

[Midgetm]

I had one because I was terrified and induced and then left on my own with no midwife. I had no idea I was 8cms's when I had it. Had I known I was nearly there and had a midwife I wouldn't have probably thought I needed one. I was terrified my back to back labour would go on as long as it already had and I knew I couldn't cope with that. So yes I loved it but could I have gone on without it - probably. Saying that it probably gave me the energy to push DD out quickly and reduce intervention yeah I know they are supposed to increase them as I had to push her out in a real hurry as she was in extreme distress. I would have been too knackered to do that without the rest the epidural gave me. I also loved the anesthetist - they are hero's.

[MarysBeard]

Rationing epidurals will cost the NHS more in the long term as they have to deal with the physical & mental fallout, which can last for years, from a traumatic birth.

[brettgirl2]

I nearly had one with dd1. Her heart rate was dropping and they were hovering with syntocin. I was in agony from back to back labour and only just coping.

I told them the drip wasnt going in till I'd had an epidural, they were hurrying around bleeping. As it turned out I was 8cm on examination so they both retreated......

The whole rationing idea is just ridiculous. Fair enough having automatic epidural for quick labour to me seems weird but if it relaxes someone else? Plus if people think its going to be hard they will start demanding before its necessary.

[Lizzietow]

Just wondered what you meant by "news they're being rationed?". I am counting on having one! I had one last time and need one now please with my second!

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello all

We've been in touch with the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists about this, and they've sent us the following statement:

---

The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) published a joint guidance document with the Royal College of Midwives (RCM) and National Childbirth Trust (NCT) in March this year.

It was removed from the RCOG website for a week for further scrutiny following misleading media reports but has now been reinstated.

To clarify, this document sets out the areas for the new Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) to consider when commissioning local maternity services from providers. CCGs are not obliged to follow such advice and would indeed need to tailor their services to meet local demands and needs.

It is not a clinical guideline for doctors. It is not meant to restrict services to women.

Key points:

· The RCOG supports the concept of ?normal birth? for women where clinically appropriate. Normal birth refers to birth without medical intervention. There may be the need to think of changing this nomenclature in future.

· Pregnant women should have access to the full range of obstetric services, including pain relief and epidurals.

· Access to caesarean sections should be based on guidance set out in current NICE guidelines.


Reference in the document to achieving the 20% rate of caesarean sections is meant as a guide and not a target. This should be viewed in the context of adequate resourcing and senior consultant presence in hospital labour wards.

Likewise, increasing the vaginal delivery rate can only be achieved with enough midwives providing the service.

The role of the GP is integral in health services since for some women, their GP would be the first health professional they would approach when they suspect they are pregnant. The RCOG believes that closer working is required between midwives and doctors to ensure that women receive high quality care and good evidence-based information about the risks associated with each option.

The RCOG supports patient choice in the place of birth but reiterates that choice is not always feasible.

In July this year, the NHSCB published new advice to support CCGs on commissioning maternity services www.commissioningboard.nhs.uk/files/2012/07/comm-maternity-services.pdf . This updated document references the older joint RCOG/RCM/NCT guidance. The RCOG would recommend that CCGs refer to this document to aid in their decision-making.

[Ushy]

Thanks Rowan for this - and well done for letting them know how annoyed mners about this.

But...misleading press reports? I don't think so. I read that original document and it says that birth without epidurals should be promoted. Since it is a struggle to get one anyway, that will give the 'pain is a spiritual rite of passage' element of the midwifery profession free range to practise their usual tricks. 'You don't need one' 'Too early' 'Too late' 'anaesthetist doing caesareans non stop for the next three weeks' 'anaesthetist died last week'.......

Just how many threads about this have their been on Mumsnet about this? Lots as far as I can remember.

I get pretty cross about the 'choice' agenda being peddled publicly whilst sneaky little documents like this are being circulated which go right against choice.

I am also fed up with the NCT being used as the 'voice' of women. Where childbirth is concerned it definitely isn't. The powers that be would get a much better picture if it read the posts on Mumsnet.

[Macaroons]

I had one and it saved my life! This is my first baby and I was 3-4 cm dilated for 30+ hours, contractions got so strong that my lower back and thighs were in lots of pain so couldn't get much sleep for two nights in a row and felt exhausted. (and I was only 3-4cm dilated at that point!!!) Was eventually induced and with the oxytocin it's suggested I have the epidural as contractions would get even stronger and a lot more frequent which will be unbearable. It felt great at the time as I could eventually catch up with some much needed sleep before I needed to push. I was told not to top up further when they told me I'm fully dilated and will pushing in 1 hour. I could still feel the contractions (without the pain!) and could push the baby out within 10 contractions!!

[wheresmespecs]

I actually feel as angry about that RCOG statement as I do about the original document.

'It is not meant to restrict services to women.'

Yes. Yes, it is. That is EXACTLY what restricting access to epidurals is.

JUST HOW STUPID DO YOU THINK WOMEN ARE, RCOG? And how DARE you BULLSHIT us like that??

[Ushy]

wheres Well said.

[rogersmellyonthetelly]

I find the whole idea of a midwife telling me I can manage without an epidural intensely patronising tbh. I've had 2 babies, both with epidurals. With my first i found the pain terrifying, overwhelming and just couldn't cope. This was despite me going into labour with every intention of going natural, but I personally couldn't. I'm not soft, I've walked round on a fractured ankle for a week without crutches, fallen off my horse 7 days consecutively and still got back on for more. With my second I knew I was losing it by 5cm, got the old, have the pethidine and see how you feel thing and was quite adamant I wanted an epidural. I got one and had the amazing birth I wanted. Already at my booking this time the mw has tried to dissuade me, I again have been adamant and will get my epidural when I need it and if i dont the whole bloody hospital is going to know about it. If I feel I don't need it, I won't ask for it, I'm an adult after all and quite capable even in labour of deciding on how much pain I'm in and what I can tolerate!

[Ushy]

What I don't understand is why do they try to dissuade you? I had EXACTLY the same experience - once I didn't get the epidural and the birth was a traumatising nightmare and the other was, like yours, absolutely bliss.

So why, why why do they do it? The 'cascade of intervention' is rubbish. The psychological effects of trauma are with you for years - when childbirth gets horribly painful it can have lasting effects .on bonding, on your mental health, on your feelings about more children...but has there ever been a midwife who has discussed these risks?

What makes me laugh most is the idea that epidurals will lengthen labour. Well yes, by about 15 minutes and with an epidural who cares?

I could go on...and on...

[BoffinMum]

Personally speaking I think the need for pain relief varies according to the position and presentation of the baby, and so on, and it's appalling to deny certain women adequate pain relief on the grounds that someone else knows better. I had an epidural for one of my four VBs and was very grateful for it. Without it I probably would have panicked and needed a CS or something. They should do all they can to help women experiencing intolerable pain, not judge them and restrict analgesia.

[bruffin]

Ushy
The epidural caused my trauma. My Ds was born 17 years ago today and we ended up in theatre for an emergency cs if the forceps didn't work. Ventuese had already failed. Thankfully forceps worked, but Ds was born with a black eye and a cone shaped head.
I went on to have a birth with no pain relief 2 years later . Dd will be 15 on Tuesday and yes it hurt a lot, but I was in control, and the birth was quick. It was a far better birth.

[Macaroons]

While on the subject of epidural, has anyone had any side effect / complications with their epidural? I had an induction with an epidural, felt great at that point (as couldn't feel the pain!) but 5 days on my left leg is still abit numb. I can just about walk but certainly cannot run. I wasn't expecting my leg to still be a little numb 5 days on! Went to GP she said this could take days / weeks or could even be permanent if nerve is damaged. Let's hope this is not the case!

Is anyone facing similar problem? How long did it take you to recover from epidural? Thanks!

[NellyBluth]

Roger - "I'm an adult after all and quite capable even in labour of deciding on how much pain I'm in and what I can tolerate!"

Exactly that! I also went into labour aiming to be calm, relaxed, just embrace the pain and go with it and... it was unbelievably painful and just exhausting. If anyone had tried to convince me otherwise I think I honestly would have tried to clobber them with an IV pole. It is patronising, infantilising rubbish to tell someone that if they just 'think' about it, they can cope. No one else but the woman in labour knows how they feel and exactly how much pain they are in.

[Ushy]

Why did the epidural cause your trauma? They don't cause caesareans. Sorry, genuinely don't understand.