Want a C section, but cant convince doctors, what do i do?

[Jessi28]

Can anyone give me advice? i'm desperately scared of natural birth. My granmother was permanently disabeld by birth. My Aunt and sister both died in childbirth. And my own mother had such a horrific experience she rejected me completely.After a 5 day labour, massive blood loss and literally dying in the delivery room and having to be resusitated. And my whole life has been blighted by it, as 28 years later she still hates me for it. I always wanted to be a mother, but always thought i'd adopt till i found myself pregnant. The problem in my family is the size of head. We all have babies with larg heads and we seem to have narrow pelvises. I'm only 28 weeks but my baies head is huge measuring nearly 35 weeks already. Meaning to me its inherited to same characteristics that have caused so many problems to my family. The doctor told me today they wont do a c section till it becomes medically necessary. As childbirth problems are'nt genetic. Meaning i'm traumatised as i feel like i'm on death row i cant enjoy my pregnancy or form a bond with my baby.As i believe i'll never know her. I genuinely believe it is medically necessary. But they wont even address that. Preffering to lecture me, rather than offer reasurance that what i'm concerned about is not an issue. I think they think i'm jsut hysterical, and need mental help. But would'nt anyone with the history i have feel the same way. And instinctively want a c section. Or at least to be reasurred, and have their medical concerns addressed. I asked to referred to someone who'l listen. But got no respone what do i do?

Yes, definitely worthwhile and probably better done in writing covering three possibly four points:

1. What the guidance is and how their practice is not conforming
2. A request for an explanation of why they are doing this
3. What adverse impact this is having on you and might have in the future

and possibly if the 'nice' approach has failed then

4. What action you plan to take in the future if the situation deteriorates.

I would always say, though, try to get an amicable solution if you can.

Make sure you stand up for what you want. I got treated teriblly and i'm 100% having a c section next time. You're fear is more than enough justification!

Beachblue "Guidelines are only guidelines, they are not law! Health professionals do not have to justify why they are not following them."

When there is a bad outcome as a result of failure to follow NICE guidelines, health care professionals WILL be required to justify why they did not follow them.

Obviously NICE isn't law but 'duty of care' is a legal obligation. If you fail in your duty of care and an individual suffers as a result, they can seek a legal remedy.

Nofoodwithaface Make sure you stand up for what you want. I got treated teriblly and i'm 100% having a c section next time. You're fear is more than enough justification!

Quite right and sorry didn't mean to but into your post!

Keep on at them!!! Your family has a history they should take it into account and considering your babys head is already measuring big for dates should be a very good reason for a c-section.

This (allegedly - inquest ongoing) happened in Australia:
"Mother tells inquest she repeatedly asked for a caesarean delivery during pregnancy"
www.theaustralian.com.au/news/mother-tells-inquest-she-repeatedly-asked-for-a-caesarean-delivery-during-pregnancy/story-e6frg6n6-1226328233037

But there are many similar examples in the UK too; for example:
"Parents of brain damaged baby wanted a normal life, not a normal birth"
cesareandebate.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/parents-of-brain-damaged-baby-wanted.html

I know of other cases where babies have died, mothers have been left doubly incontinent, and many more living with psychological trauma and/or other injuries. That's not to say that there are no risks with a planned cesarean, but the point is, that in cases like these (and Jessi28's), when women WANT to have a cesarean, and they accept its risks, they should not be forced to have a trial of labor - and especially in the UK where we're constantly being told there isn't even enough staff to look after the women who DO want a vaginal delivery.

ChoosingCesarean

In my view my closet hospital should be shut down, due to the amount of horror stories coming out of it from women who have had babies there. The problem is - they have been so ill, so traumatised they wont complain, they are not sure how too, they want to move on.

The QCC has just done a report on it saying it was great. A week later by chance someone in our local paper complained about it - and the comments were flooded with stories of dreadful errors.

I have begged and begged these ladies to even annoymously give feedback for the sake of other women going there.

Where I had my DD at a different hosp, the midwives, the care was fantastic, they handled me really well with my tokophobia as I was jabbering away....( I didnt know there was a name for it back then), and everything went well. I couldnt fault the care or support.

However I was simply in too much pain, I couldnt cope with it - and I carefully researched to have an epi, my community midwife said - have one....got there and it didnt exist....I was blindsided.

Sadly that hospital has also gone rapidly down hill, girls turned away in labour, lots of babies being needlessly lost....that leaves me with the next good hospital at 30+ miles away.

In my area there is a crisis on. Its like the wild west! Resources have been stretched too much! The reality is very different from the spiel that is fed. With everything else that can go wrong, you cant even be guaranteed admission to hosp....or proper care when you get in.

i.e hosps pushing women away from ELC can they guarantee a bed, admission to labour ward, api if they want one, proper care? In my area....NO>

elizaregina that is such a powerful post - the 'hype' about maternity services is nothing like the reality and when it comes to things like fear of childbirth it is out and out cruel.

It must be possible to do something about this. Journalists? Politicians? What is happening is just so awful and nothing is being done.

Beachblue "You've just proved my point as the last 2 points had nothing to do with the OP and advice for her in how to cope and structure her eeasons for wanting/needing a section. Prob why OP has disappeared"

But we are talking about the wider issues and how it can be that anyone in a modern western democracy can be treated so appallingly. The bigger issues DO matter and the OP has raised a very important one.

Give us a chance to discuss it.

This is Hampshire Hospitals' Philosophy of Care:

www.hampshirehospitals.nhs.uk/our-services/a-z-clinical-services/maternity-services/basingstoke-and-north-hampshire_nvtvrdwv/philosophy-of-care/index.html
"Childbirth is a unique experience for each individual woman. The dignity and rights of mothers, babies and their families will be respected at all times. We will work in partnership with women and their families to facilitate a positive birth experience in a supportive, sensitive, safe and friendly environment."

However, it appears to pride itself on having a low c-section rate too:

Lowest caesarean section rates seen in Basingstoke
www.hampshirehospitals.nhs.uk/news-events/news/basingstoke-archive/2010-press-releases/lowest-caesarean-section-rates-_21hy92gr/index.html
"Recently published birth statistics on Birth Choice UK.com show the maternity unit at Basingstoke and North Hampshire NHS Foundation Trust has the lowest caesarean section rate in the region. Wednesday 3 March 2010 - Consultant obstetrician, Miss Claire Iffland, explained "Our overall caesarean section rate is around 20% of all our deliveries, which is 4% below the national average of 24.6%."

Until the (whole of the) NHS and indeed MPs understand that there is no empirical evidence for ANY ideal percentage rate of caesareans, and until there is a wider understanding that different caesareans have different levels of risks (e.g. emergency and planned cs for medical reasons have greater risks than a maternal request planned cs with no medical indication), and that a trial of labour DOES have serious risks associated with it too, then the situation that women like Jessi28 find themselves in will continue to crop up throughout the UK.

More doctors and midwives need to understand that a positive birth experience is achievable through a planned c-section birth too, and they need to accept that the NICE guideline is EVIDENCE-BASED, and therefore unless they can present different evidence to the contrary, they need to accept maternal request. And if they don't want to do the caesarean because of a philosophical difference in opinion, they should refer women to a different medical professional - or hospital, if necessary.

Jessie28, I don't think it's right that you should have to go down the tokophobia/mental health route - since you seem to want to justify your caesarean based on an informed risk-benefit analysis of different birth risks - and I hope that it doesn't come to this (if it's not what you want to do). However, I am all too aware that there are women who feel so desperate to have their preferred caesarean agreed to that they do this - even though they have no mental health issues at all.

Beachblue I don't understand where you are coming from. Choosing's post was totally relevant and supportive. Did you read it? I've copied the end of it here -

"Jessie28, I don't think it's right that you should have to go down the tokophobia/mental health route - since you seem to want to justify your caesarean based on an informed risk-benefit analysis of different birth risks - and I hope that it doesn't come to this (if it's not what you want to do). However, I am all too aware that there are women who feel so desperate to have their preferred caesarean agreed to that they do this - even though they have no mental health issues at all."

Seems totally appropriate post to me.

Very

I believe that I am helping Jessi28, and possibly even other women who share her concerns that may be reading this thread.

Too many women in too many hospitals are facing this situation, and the more information we can provide them with, the better chance they have of having their birth plan preference properly discussed and respected.

For example, Jessi28 can print out and bring her hospital's philosophy of care to her next appointment, and she can ask directly whether her caesarean is being refused on health grounds or in order to help maintain its current caesarean rate.

Unless Jessi28 asks me to leave the thread, or mumsnet moderators feel that anything I have written is innapropriate, I will continue to add any information that I feel might help.

Knowledge is power - or at least it's a very good start.

ChoosingCesarean

I totally agree, knowledge is power, and whilst I fully Admit my rants have probably not been of much help for the OP, thats because she has moved me with her desperate cry and it makes me very angry.

You are very unlikely to be as vulnerable again in your life as when pregnant and in labour.

As a woman, and as pregnant woman to hear of op being dismissed and spoken to like this when she obivoulsy has a lot of reasons to be afraid makes me upset.

We have to share knowledge and to make things change you have to speak up and out! Also OP has had lots of excellent advise on how to deal with her problem and lots of support and sympathy.

And although I am sure she knew before - she knows 100% now this is a much wider problem and more importantly not one she is facing alone. sadly.

Jessi, I think there are other deeper issues here but this has just become a debate about c.s on demand.

I'm that your mum has blighted your relationship with her and rejected you because of her labour.
That doesn't seem right to me.
I know women who have had difficult births but don't use it to terrify their children or blame it for dysfunctional relationships with them.

The family history seems extreme but you have another family.

How did the women on your Dad's side manage? What if they all had normal straightforward labours and easy births - you may 'take after' them.

I think your family have done you a huge injustice by instilling this fear of child birth in you. Do you think that a normal birth may actually be better for helping you to deal with what they have done?

Finallygotaroundtoit "I think your family have done you a huge injustice by instilling this fear of child birth in you. "

Two of the OP's relatives DIED Finally - I would feel exactly as the OP does in her position. Childbirth has a terrible impact on her family. I completely understand why she feels as she does.

I don't want to speak for you, though, Jessi, are you there?

Jessi - I had a first birth ELCS for maternal request (no medical reason or family history) at the Royal Surrey. I did have to get second opinion/change consultant but it was granted in nd . I know it's not your local hospital but it's not to far to consider maybe? PM me if you want.