Worried about and stupefied with pregnant friend

[PeaceAndHope]

My dear friend in America is expecting her second and has me worried sick:(

Last time she had a fourth degree tear and rectovaginal fistula which hasn't yet been properly repaired. Her baby was 10 pounds and it was a very complicated birth.
However, she just called to tell me that she has decided on a vaginal birth again, even though her baby weighs about the same this time. She says she will get the repair after her delivery.

I tried to explain to her that leaving severe tears and fistulas unrepaired can make them harder to fix. IMO the course of action would have been to have it repaired ASAP and get an ELCS the second time around.

It's not my place to say this of course, and she has a right to pick a VB but that isn't what concerns me. Despite dealing with the worst outcome of a VB she is convinced that it's 100% safe and that CS is "too dangerous". I fear she is is putting herself and her macrocosmic baby at risk for birth injuries and worse still she doesn't realise it.

She says she has done a lot of research and she thinks a CS will be an "injustice to her baby". I understand her worries over breathing difficulties after a CS, but what about the risks of shoulder dystocia and brachial plexus palsy in macrocosmic babies?!

What is even more concerning is that she has been blogging about her decision to have another VB instead of "major surgery". I don't know if she's trying to prove something or has some evangelical urge to go natural, but I can't understand why she would deliberately mislead others?

What would you do in her position? And in mine?

Not sure why you thought I was suggesting she go under GA to have it repaired during her pregnancy. That's simply not possible.

Er, from your own words:

IMO the course of action would have been to have it repaired ASAP and get an ELCS the second time around.

Hells bells:

Focus on the tense- I said the course of action "would have been". I don't think my statement was that hard to understand, especially after I offered a paragraph long explanation.

I'm sorry you had a third degree tear, but it isn't quite the same as a fourth degree tear plus a RVF.

Given that she's one of my closest friends I don't see why it's so shocking that she has discussed these things with me. I'm "spreading this over a forum" because it's an anonymous forum. I didn't exactly announce this on Facebook and breach her trust in me.

I didn't forbid anyone from posting here either- I requested her to watch her language and stop posting if my opinions bothered her so much.

Hellsbells:

It's quite funny to ask me to develop new interests when you're sat there avidly going through my posting history and finding ways to pin holes in what isn't even an argument.

I could likewise accuse you of an anti CS agenda since you're against it even in an instance where it clearly appears to be a medical necessity, but contrary to your assumption, I do have other interests, so I'll refrain.

I did focus on the tense. 'Would have been' means that this is what she should have done in your opinion. ASAP implies during this pregnancy. If you meant this is what she should have done following her first delivery perhaps you could have made that clearer. Thank you for your sympathy regarding my tear but it's not really necessary and you (deliberately I suspect) missed the point that I and many others are making, that it has nothing to do with what I, or you, or anyone else would have done. It's her decision.

RE privacy - I'd have thought she'd be very identifiable from the information you've given if she or anyone she knows came across your post. Mumsnet is high profile and has plenty of users in the US. I wouldn't be at all happy about it to have my faecal incontinence and sexual dysfunction discussed in such detail on the internet if I'd confided in you about them.

I have plenty of other interests, thanks. Took about 30 seconds out of my day to click on your username, scan through your posts and realise that you have an agenda and an absolute obsession with cheerleading for CS. Wonder why that is?

Not against CS at all, they can be lifesaving operations for both mother and baby. What a strange thing to accuse me of.

LMAO Advising someone to leave the thread immediately good one I'd advise you not to post on an open forum if you want to cherry pick the replies you get.

As for your OP I'd butt out if i was you.

Hells bells:

For the last time, I'm well aware that it's her decision. Perhaps you have deliberately missed the point but I've already accepted that and I haven't offered her any unasked for advice.

As for your nitpicking the tense and wording in that one sentence - well, now you know. I've explained what I meant so perhaps you could graciously accept the explanation offered rather than going on about what you think I meant.

Re privacy: This must some vieled attempt of yours to make me seem like a complete ass. Nevertheless, I'll assure you that plenty of women in the USA must have suffered from fourth degree tears, incontinence and RVF, my friend is not a unique case. There are certain things I haven't yet revealed to ensure she isn't identified. Lastly, barring her mum, husband and I nobody else really knows about her condition in detail, so I'm utterly puzzled as to how you think anyone would identify her. I haven't revealed her exact location, her appearance, her name, nothing. How on earth do you propose someone will identify her? I doubt anyone can even identify me and I've revealed a lot about myself here.

I'm also amused that you think I'm "obsessed" with CS. Saying something good about them and talking about their relative benefits means I'm obsessed with them? I've also spoken about how fab private care is. Maybe next you'll say I'm obsessed with private care.

ABatInBunkFive:

Yes, I know it's an open forum. But it is a thread I've begun asking a question. If I'm not interested in a specific poster's answers I imagine I have the liberty to say it. I also have the liberty to call out someone who is being deliberately rude and needlessly confrontational.

Fistulae: pretty rare, thankfully. Unhealed ones (in the West at least), even rarer. Women who plan VBs against medical advice in the US: probably vanishingly rare by now. Those who blog about their choice, using specific and quite out-there phrases such as 'injustice to the baby' and have a close friend in the UK who they have shared everything with...well, you get my point. Doesn't matter if you haven't identified her location etc - if she or anyone who knows her well sees this, she/they'll know damn well it's about her.

I wasn't nitpicking, I was explaining why I interpreted your words in the way I did. Not my fault if you have difficulty expressing yourself clearly.

And yes, as others have pointed out, your activitiy on this forum is exclusively, obsessively about cheerleading CS. I suppose that's your choice, but don't be surprised if it leads others to question you motives on a thread like this.

Finally, before I find something more interesting to do with my evening, if you have accepted it's her choice, what on earth is the point of this thread?

If I were you, I'd just back away from the thread PeaceandHope. You're coming across as slightly unhinged and this isn't going to be a forum for you to vent but just you to defend your position. You've vented now haven't you? I'd leave it and try and support your friend however you're able

I am in ore of anyone wanting a vb after such a terrible horrific first birth.

HellsBells:

1. The blog is anonymous and isn't about her personal experience. It's about her general opinions. I will not reveal more about it for obvious reasons.

1. Yes, unhealed fistulas are uncommon. But unless everyone knows you have one how will they identify you on that basis? Only 4 people even know what she has.

1. I have not revealed the full extent of her condition.

1. If she is planning a VB against common sense, she has not exactly been announcing that fact from rooftops. Which brings us back to the point: if nobody knows this fact, how will they identify her on that basis?

Your lack of logic in this case is astounding. It is next to impossible to identify people on the internet. Whats even stranger is your completely uncalled for anger toward me.

Take faceless people on the internet a little less seriously.

Dear God. I'll try and make this even simpler as I attempt to make you understand for the third time.

It is not that any randomer can put a name to her based on what you have written. It is that MN is accessible to anyone with an internet connection, is very high profile, and it is really quite possible that your friend, being a mother, might come across this thread herself and recognise herself from your description.

In which case she may well decide to reevaluate her friendship with you. I know I would.

Oh and I'm not at all angry. More amused, tbh.

hellsbells:

I think you are having trouble expressing yourself now. All this while you were going on about someone else identifying her and embarrassing her. Now you are suddenly worried about her identifying herself.

Nevertheless, I considered that possibility before posting here. Only after satisfying myself of the fact that for several reasons (which I cannot explain without revealing my own or her identity) the problem you are referring to is moot, did I post the question.

Even if by some strange co-incidence she does recognise herself, then what happens to my friendship will be my concern. Don't worry yourself into a tizzy over it.

I'm glad you're amused. You can't possibly be more amused than I am right now with the needless interest you take in the lives of people you don't even know. At least I'm worried about someone I happen to care deeply for, instead of random people online.

Um, nope. I said, firstly:

I'd have thought she'd be very identifiable from the information you've given if she or anyone she knows came across your post.

Doesn't matter if you haven't identified her location etc - if she or anyone who knows her well sees this, she/they'll know damn well it's about her.

I've been entirely consistent. And how very convenient that you can't reveal your super-duper privacy measures (that presumably involve ensuring she has no access to one of the most high profile parenting sites on the internet )

And as for your final sentence: well the irony of that coming from someone who came on here in the first place to canvas opinions from 'random people online': double . Do carry on, it's hilarious.

Hello AGAIN

Reported, btw.

I understand the point Hellsbells is making, and I think you do too.

1. It's not normal to be this aerated about an informed decision a friend is making.

2. A good friend would not post at such length and detail about private and personal issues another is having on a public forum.

3. Having asked for advice and got a resounding 'back off' from everyone here, you're now reinforcing the impression given in your first post that you have no sense of proportion or boundaries.

Peace, this isn't the first thread that has gone this way. You really do sound like you have issues that have nothing to do with your friend. I really think you should be having a look in the mirror and asking yourself a few questions over this. This obsession and the way you speak about it has been noted on other threads and its ended up going in a similar fashion. I honestly think you have some sort of unresolved problem here which you need to address.

I applaud you in the way, you want to fight against this, but you end up doing more harm than good because of the way you are so emotionally involved with it. It damages your point of view. It ends up becoming a huge bun fight with anyone who doesn't quite support you. I feel sorry for your friend in that respect. I would find you hard to deal with and I won't be giving birth unless I can have assurances of having a CS.

This really isn't about your worry for your friend. This is about how you feel about VBs and your fears within that.

I'm sure your friend has had a difficult time, but if she has all those problems and still wants another baby and knows this side of it, then she's making an informed choice. That should be respected.

Its not as if she has the reality being played down or hidden from her. She must have some good reasons for her to have a VB. Probably mental health reasons - which are as valid as any physical reason.

Hmm, you're wasting your breath I'm afraid. This has played out so many times - I have no idea what OP's issues are but s/he cannot hear us.

helpyourself:

As I have pointed out, it isn't an informed decision she seems to be making.

hellsbells:

Sigh.

There are no super-duper privacy measures. There are just various reasons why I am certain she cannot be identified based on what I have revealed. There are also various reasons why the chances of her reading any of this are remote.

The rest is my business. As I said, don't worry yourself about it.