Surely everyone who gives birth has done 'well'?

[kickingking]

Not sure of the right place to post this - it's partly inspired by the OBEM threads.

On those threads (and in real life) there is a lot of 'she did well, what with a 9lber' and 'she did well on only gas and air' and (less frequently) 'she did well because her labour lasted so long, poor thing'.

My line of thinking days that you can't say that anyone had done 'well' OR that everyone who has a baby has done well, because it is impossible to quantify other people's pain, fear and joy. Saying that someone has 'done well' implies you are comparing it to other births where the mothers haven't done so well. Which I think is unfair.

I will add as a disclaimer here (in case anyone searches me or recognises me from another thread) that I had elcs and have never experienced labour myself, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

Thoughts?

I totally agree. Reading/ hearing things like that really upset me as I'm one of the mums they would say hadn't done so well because I had a short labour with intervention and lots of screaming and only a 6lb baby. Surely the 9 months preceding that and the 2 years since must count for something though?!

It also made me quite to see mw mum on obem getting what looked a lot like preferential treatment. I'm sure we'd all "do well" with that level of support.

Isn't it just a platitude that is offered, I would have thought to every woman who has given birth at some point, irrespective of how they gave birth?

I think everyone does well in whatever their situation. Well done for a short active labour with no pain relief, well done for enduring a long labour with an epidural and intervention, well done for coping when your labour did not go to plan.

Anyone who says otherwise is not worth listening too.

Also I don't think the MW in labour got 'preferential' treatment it's just that they were her mates. All the rules still applied to her.

You're right. Every woman who has had a baby, by whatever method has 'done well'.

The platitudes make little sense in real terms. Because it's not something the mother decides and works hard at. You get given your own peculiar set of events and progression and you endure it in the way that suits you and the situation best or the way that you are allowed by the system we occupy. In the end you can only hope that we all achieve the same thing, a healthy baby.

It is just something we say though. Usually meaningless. Unless you're my brother who truly believes sil did much better than me. And told me so. Several times.

I agree that if you manage to have a baby (by ANY method) you have done well!

Having said that, I was wittering on to the midwife shortly after DC1's birth (45 minutes after!) about how I'd have been very happy to have had an epidural or go for a CS as long as he came out in one piece and breathing (as it happened he was a VB and I survived on gas & air). She shook her head at me and sagely said "No, you had this baby the right way." WTF?! She thought she was praising me but it just made me really really on behalf of all my friends who've had epidural/EMCS!!

Just goes to show some of the MW really DO think like that - scary.

On the topic of OBEM, I noticed a few people on the OBEM thread commenting on how the MW mum seemed to think epidurals were the easy route and getting annoyed at her for it, while seemingly ignoring the fact that the other mum flat-out said "They're a cop-out, aren't they?" So they had the same opinion but only the MW mum got grief for it. I don't agree with their opinion but think it was a bit unfair how the MW mum got singled out.

I missed this weeks episode. Just wanted to say though that where I work a midwife in labour will tend to bring one of her midwife friends in with her to look after her. Or sometimes more than one, so yes they will get one on one care when maybe other women aren't getting it but the midwife providing the care isn't getting paid, so is an extra one there just or their friend.

I had a total meltdown when my epidural failed during labour. Demanded a section and tried to pull my syntocin drip out then had hysterics till the poor wee student midwife turned it off. More hysterics until the anaesthetist arrived to fix the epidural. Fell into a druggy sleep and wouldn't be roused to push DS out. Not sure I felt that I had done well even though he was over 9lb!

Yes, if you have a baby you have done well.

I watch OBEM though, and sometimes think "she's handling it way better than I did" or the opposite. As if childbirth is something to compete at or compare yourself against

I've stopped myself from thinking like that now, but I've had to concentrate on it. Every labour, and labouring woman, is different.

I've heard it said, but said to everyone if you see what I mean. So more of a well done for producing a baby type platitude. But yes, given everyone has different life experiences and pain thresholds it is impossible to quantify who does 'best'. Anyone who tries to is a fool.

As Ninky says, it would take a real fool of a woman who has given birth to get into competition with another mother regarding childbirth.

Or a man.

In either case their comments are best put on the same shelf as the, 'oohh your huge/tiny,is there 2 in there,no tv?,bet you want a boy/girl etc etc!

In fact, now you've got me on it I think, as well as the gorgeous baby,irrespective of how it arrives,every mother deserves an accolade from the queen, never mind a bloody 'well done'!

I need to stop watching OBEM. Every time I watch I end up feeling really ashamed of how much I screamed, and how out of control I felt during the second stage. (Weirdly, I got compliments on the third stage. I had a 'lovely' placenta, apparently which the midwife insisted on showing me in great detail)

Stupid of me, isn't it?! I think I'm the kind of person who compares a lot anyway though, so not that surprising of me. Still makes me a bit I can't be more proud of the way I brought my DS into the world.

It's a platitude.

But some women are more stoical than others. And that's not just in relation to childbirth but in relation to other life events.

I whined and shivered with fear like a damp kitten all the way through my labours. I feel no shame or sense of inferiority about this. It's a reflection of my personality. I am a bit of a wimp. But I have other sterling qualities.

I admire women who try to manage their fear and their pain in a positive way. Good for them. If I was a midwife I'd also be saying 'didn't she do well'.

some women are lucky.

It's just something people say.

For what it's worth I don't think it makes that much sense to say to anyone. It's not like we have the option to "not do well" and keep the baby in there.

Agree totally.

Both my labours were only 6 hours for a start so easier than most I think.

However both were induced which is apparently more painful but my pain with ds were an absolute piece of piss, seriously really not that sore at all. My labour with dd was in a whole other league - she was 9lb 4 but it was more because she was back to back. If I were to compare the labours it would be like comparing a paper cut to having your arm slowly sawn off with no anaesthetic.

So if my 2 labours can be so different I don't see how anyone knows if anyone 'is making a fuss' or 'not doing their best' or whatever. Giving birth is a massive thing and its terrifying and why it has to be turned into a competition I don't know.

Equally, I don't see CS as a cop-out I was terrified of having one!

Why is there such resistance to the idea that some people are braver or more stoical than others?

Shagmundfreud are you serious? Really? You know, you have such a lot of really helpful advice and experience in relation to vb/home birth. But putting value judgements on other women's experiences is really rather shabby. No one does any better or worse than anyone else - we have to say that as none of us have walked each other's paths.

I agree that saying 'well done' is just what people say when you've had a baby. People said well done to me after an elcs, it just means the same as congratulations.

I was talking more about the 'did well' comments about OBEM births - which I see as a judgement, since we don't know the women on OBEM and it is not the same as saying congratulations to someone in person.

The thing is, some women (people) are braver than others, but since birth is a unique experience (even in the same person for different babies) how can we possibly know how much somebody else's contractions hurt, or how tired they were, or how hard they had to push, or how much crowning/episiotomy/section hurt, or how frightened they were when the baby's heart rate dropped/baby was being pulled out by forceps?

You just can't know. Some of it probably does come down to personality, but I don't know how anyone can say that the woman who screamed and cried and begged for an epidural was being silly, or that the woman who breathed a baby out in a pool 'did amazingly well' because we can never experience exactly what they experienced.

Everyone has done well cos lets face it after 9 months growing a baby and giving birth regardless of what method, how quick, how long, how painful or pain free, how supported you are, it takes a lot of work. So to all mums and mums to be WELL DONE!

It's a platitude, just like 'the baby is cute'. It acknowledges the fact that it was an effort on the mother to deliver the baby (regardless of how it came out) and that it's good to have a healthy baby in the end.

I'd be upset if there was comment on OBEM of a mother NOT doing well ('well you did crap didn't you, only a 6 pound baby and still you were whinging about the pain, tsk tsk'). But that never happens, so you have to put the 'did well' comment in that light.

My mentor does this - she'll say to a woman postnatally, 'you had just G&A, you did well, didn't you?' Same with BFing - 'oh, you breastfed for a year, you did well!' It makes me a bit because I actually think it can come across as slightly patronising. I vow to never come out with these value judgements!

I do think it's only natural to have your own personal feelings, though. Sometimes I do see a labour where I think, wow that woman was really brilliant. It's not to say the rest haven't done well, but some women cope amazingly with a really difficult labour, for instance, and they have done particularly well in the circumstances.

Re the midwife getting special treatment, I think it's only natural that you'd be extra excited to look after a friend and colleague. I really didn't think she got 'special' treatment compared to anyone else I've seen on the program, however.

As a midwife I think I find something to say "well done" about to all the women I look after. And hopefully in a non-patronising manner. Most/all women seem to appreciate the comment.

I don't think its patronising, I'm probably just bitter that no one said it to me

Re the mw getting special treatment, she wasn't in established labour and they admitted her to labour ward and let her get in the pool anyway. I was literally begging to go in and mw was still saying no, (when I was allowed in I was 10cm and ds was born 30 minutes later) and now that I'm expecting dc2 being dismissed like that is my biggest fear over this birth.