Natural birth - another impossible ideal for women to try to live up to?

[Bibbo]

DH thinks the natural birth movement is another way of making women feel shit about themselves for not living up to the ideal of a fabulous, fulfilling, even painless birth. However I believe the hype and really want one for DC2! DH says I am setting unreasonable expectations... am I setting myself up for more disappointment and a feeling of failure?

I wanted a natural birth for DC1 but it was not to be. I was really disappointed that it ended in em c/s and, looking back, I wonder whether the outcome might have been different if I'd had different care.

The midwives were well meaning but they pressurised me to have pethidine, which knackered me out, and when my contractions slowed down they stuck me on oxytocin pretty early on. I was inexperienced and just went with whatever they suggested. Then when my progression slowed the consultants scared the absolute shit out of me, shouting at me and cranking the drip up really high until it was just pure agony. However I got quite far with the pushing, enough that DD's hair was visible - but then her heartbeat showed she was distressed (not surprising with the drip cranked up that high!) and I got whisked in for an em c/s.

So, this time I am determined to be more assertive about what I want and am doing hypnobirthing etc. However I can't shake the feeling that I might have to fend off midwives and consultants who want to intervene at the slightest sign of things not going swimmingly. For this reason I'm tempted to have a homebirth - but DH is dead against it.

I should mention that I have a bicornuate uterus, which apparently may mean I am less likely to be able to push a baby out. But when I think how far I got with DC1, surely it can't be that much of a problem?

Anyway, am interested in people's views. Is it really an impossible ideal? or should I tell DH to shut the fuck up and be a bit more supportive about my choice?

I had 2 out of 3 birth drug free (natural?) but not from choice more bad timing and my getting very angry with midwife when she offered me Gas and Air. I remember looking at her and thinking she was mad if she thought that was going to help.

If you do go down this route I found using gravity to be crucial. I remember thinking that what I needed was two rings attached to two ropes attached to the roof (like what gymnastics use) so that I could let nature take over. My first birth was induced and forceps and epidural and was not nice. The 2 drug free ones were fast and shocking but somehow I felt more in control. The last one was 10llb 3 ozs too but I figure that gravity helped his journey.

Anyway try but don't be afraid to change your mind if the pain gets too much. There are no medals for enduring the pain,

Tell him to stfu given that it's not his body, I would.

Fabulous,fulfilling and painless birth? Tell em to feck off.

I had 3 natural births but that was more my good luck than anything else. Fabulous and fulfilling in that I ended up with a baby each time.
more agony than painless however. All the births were in a large teaching hospital.

I tend to agree with your husband on this one.

However anything that helps you feel calm and in control has got to be good, just try not to swallow the crap they spiel out at the same time.

But don't be disappointed in yourself either. You're both ok so that's great.

It's not an impossible ideal, plenty of countries have high rates of normal vaginal childbirth. Sections are great in some circs bushouldnt, IMO, be the norm.

Most people who've had home births rave about them, me included (I've had more than 1)

It's not an impossible ideal, but if it is something you aspire to, then I think it is important to maintain an awareness that birth can be unpredictable, and there are 2 individuals involved, sometimes baby has a different birth plan to the mother.
I think, and I think mostly this comes from outside of natural birth advocacy, there is too much attention paid to the lovely soft focus happy orgasmic birth experience, as if that is the main or only reason one would choose a natural birth. Yes, natural birth can be absolutely beautiful, so can other births when handled sensitively, but I don't think we do it because we want the "experience", we do it because we want to avoid the opposite.
I am interested in natural birth because of the unnecessary harm caused by over-medicalising the birth process. Any intervention (and by that I mean the loosest sense, anything that interrupts the mother's instinctive behaviour) has the potential to disrupt the physiology of birth, and I feel should be justified as genuinely being more beneficial than leaving her be.
Of course a woman has the right to make an informed choice to have any kind of intervention she believes is right for her, but equally, she has the right to make the informed decision to avoid it.
If you plan a home birth, you can always decide to transfer to hospital at any point. If you plan a hospital birth, they aren't going to let you hop off the bed and go home if you decide you aren't happy in your surroundings.

Can you talk to a doula, that might give you a different perspective.

Its not impossible, but it is mostly down to luck, so if doesnt work no one should be made to feel like a failure!
And luck inlcudes your body/baby doing everything as they are supposed to, and having the right support.

I think its good to have a goal in mind (ideal natural birth) but also be aware that that goal may have to be changed for stg more realistic at the time!

Best of luck

I sort of agree with your husband here but ultimately you are the one who are going to through it so you have to be happy with whatever option you choose.

Things happen very quickly when you give birth and ultimately you should not rule anything out. Your priority IMO should be the safety of your child and if the delivery happens in your dream condition then it's bonus.

Intervention can sometimes go overboard; understandably professionals are cautious and will take not chances and may on occasions be probably over cautious. However, bear in mind that intervention save lives.

Whatever happens, I hope it goes well!

Thanks everyone. Yes I think it makes sense to think of it as partly being down to luck!

Perhaps a homebirth might be a bit reckless under the circs. anyway DH being all uptight about not being imminently close to an operating theatre is hardly likely to relax me!

It is hard to be chilled out about something as dramatic and life-changing as birth, isn't it. Poor DH was pretty traumatised by the first one too, and I think that's why he's got strong opinions, he just wants me and the LO to come through as easily as possible.

I do think a good PMA is important so I'll keep focusing on doing it my way, but will try not to get too hung up about it... I mean, another c/s wouldn't be the end of the world - just a bit of a pita to deal with - and I already have the minging scar and overhang so no further worries in that department at least

Write a birth plan! Yes, it may not work out, yes you may have to change your mind, but there is no point in assuming a worst case scenario is there? And in fact, there are a lot of things you can decide for yourself without any risk of endangering the baby- no pethidine, for instance. I had this in my birth notes and dh was instructed to remind everybody of the fact if needed. As long as the woman feels able to cope without it there is no medical need for pethidine. Being as mobile as possible at least in the early stages is another one that is unlikely to do any harm, as is soothing music or hypno-birthing techniques or whatever else you want to go for.

Before you decide about the home birth I would read up on your uterus shape and how likely it is to cause problems- and what the likely problems are.

weareskeptixx.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/the-misogyny-at-the-heart-of-natural-childbirth/

I think your husband has a point. Just go with the flow, rather than aspiring to some prescribed ideal.

How far away from hospital are you? I live about 10 min drive from the hospital I gave birth in (and figured an ambulance could probably do the journey in 5) so was seriously considering a homebirth as I decided if I needed to go into hospital partway through it would have been very easy - not sure I would have felt the same if 45 mins drive away (for example).

In the end I chickened out anyway and went for a hospital birth but dh explained to everyone he could that I wanted as little intervention as possible and the mw's respected that.

A home birth isn't reckless at all, but could be (sadly) hard to arrange without a independent midwife.

I'm really sorry you had the experience you did, I know how it feels. There's nothing at all surprising or unexpected in wanting a natural experience where you're in control next time. Wishing you the best and hoping you're able to have the experience you deserve :)

I love your analigy loopy makes perfect sense!!

• analogy, even

"Its not impossible, but it is mostly down to luck"

If birth mode was only down to 'luck' we wouldn't have had an almost doubling of the c/s rate in the UK over the space of 20 years - something that's happened without a corresponding fall in stillbirths. Women haven't evolved to have more difficulties with labour in such a short space of time.

Anyway, second (third?!) the recommendation to think about getting a doula. Also consider staying at home until late on in labour if you are comfortable.

I reckon you've got a good chance of a normal delivery, given how far you got last time, and given that you were still (by the sound of it) making progress when you had to have a emcs.

Widow - that article is just.... balls. It takes DGR's views on the role of women, which reflect the mysogyny of the time, and entrenched religious beliefs, and extrapolates it to the whole natural childbirth movement thereafter. The point is that his central tenet - that there was a link between fear and pain in childbirth, was a really, really important and influential one.

I think his views went a long way towards humanising birth at a time when women were often treated in a very degrading and brutal way in labour and I'm profoundly grateful for his work.

If you want a home birth and feel confident that you will feel more relaxed and calm at home I would go for it. I had DS at home and although it was not some kind of amazing pain free experience I did deliver a healthy son in a very calm atmosphere and as births go it was fantastic.

I remember my midwife saying 'that was such a beautiful birth' and I remember thinking 'who the hell for, it felt far from beautiful for me!' I am planning to have DC2 at home in the next few weeks and am hoping it goes as well as DC1. If you do decide to have a baby at home make sure you have a birthing pool as I found it amazing for pain relief and remember thinking what on earth would I have done without it.

As for your DH not wanting you to have a home birth he is probably really worried about what happened last time and thinks you would be better off in hospital, but by the sound of what you have said you would probably be a lot less stressed at home. If you really want a home birth I would tell him that is what you are having and get him all the info on how long the ambulance would take to get you to hospital, how you will have two trained mid-wives attend you etc. Hope you have a better experience this time round, you sound very confident about what is best for you which is bound to be a massive help.

loopy has got it absolutely right. you don't know what you will have to deal with, but the more informed you are, the better equipped you are to deal with what comes up. and nothing wrong with having preferences either.

3 natural births here (with a bit of gas and air). certainly not orgasmic or pain free but fantastic experiences. wanted water births but that never worked out (pool never available). wanted home birth with last, but DD came 4 weeks early so went into hosp.

I think your DH is wrong. I think what makes women feel shit about birth is lack of control, lack of information and lack of informed support.

You need all of these things in place so that throughout the birth process you can make an informed decision. I wanted a home birth but after becoming informed about my own particular birth risks, opted for a MW led unit, had a birthing pool for part of it but when I needed medical intervention it was there and I was again, able to make an informed decision about what needed to happen, even though I was in the latter stages of labour.

Information and the support around you to make the right decisions are what leads to an empowered birth, which I think is what women should be aiming for, whether that empowered birth is a fully natural birth, or an assisted one.

"If birth mode was only down to 'luck' we wouldn't have had an almost doubling of the c/s rate in the UK over the space of 20 years - something that's happened without a corresponding fall in stillbirths. Women haven't evolved to have more difficulties with labour in such a short space of time."

No - but the proportion of women giving birth later in life, esp for first babies, has increased a lot in that time - and we are less physically fit and more obese than 20 years ago.

PS great post on DGR weareskeptixx.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/the-misogyny-at-the-heart-of-natural-childbirth/ thanks, WidowWadman.

I think as long as you feel informed and empowered enough to make the right choices for yourself and the baby in child birth, that neither CS or natural birth are in any way degrading, misogynistic or 'idealistic'. Your DH or medical staff pushing you to make decisions you don't feel comfortable with, that's a problem that needs addressing.

I agree with the comment above about it being like a game of poker: you don't know what kind of delivery nature will give you, but you can decide how to deal with it. Educate yourself, know your options, make a point of getting all medical decisions clarified properly and make sure your midwife understands your preferences.

As to pain - it's either the pain of natural birth or the pain of recovery from CS, we all know it's not going to be a walk in the park regardless.

I had similar support from my DH. I hated the drug haze from my first birth and read up more on my options for the second birth. He really thought it was impossible to do it any other way and scoffed at my "hippy" hypnobirthing. After numerous arguments, he eventually shut up about me going painfree and stopped basically treating me like a clueless child.

I got on great with the second birth and while it was painful, it was not unbearable. I'm so glad that I stuck to what I wanted. I know some luck was involved too but I had more control by being more informed.

DH won't be undermining me next time round either.

I had similar support from my DH. I hated the drug haze from my first birth and read up more on my options for the second birth. He really thought it was impossible to do it any other way and scoffed at my "hippy" hypnobirthing. After numerous arguments, he eventually shut up about me going drug-free and stopped basically treating me like a clueless child.

I got on great with the second birth and while it was painful, it was not unbearable. I'm so glad that I stuck to what I wanted. I know some luck was involved too but I had more control by being more informed.

DH won't be undermining me next time round either. Actually, I think he is a bit of a control freak and I think this was his way of trying to have some control over something only I could do.