I honestly can't remember how many people...

[namechangerbat]

I'm pg with number 3 and I've been sitting here thinking about my last two labours and my impending scan at EPAU tomorrow.

I honestly cannot remember how many different people gave me VEs in my labour. I remember the obvious sweep and when I got to hospital being examined but during labour with both of my children I recall various randoms having a hand up there.

Makes me feel quite sick actually.

Just wanted to share.

Eww!!!

It's a lovely thought, eh! :)

With number 1 i had a c section and i managed to go the whole pgncy without anyone even looking at my hoo ha - let alone touching it. Then one year later i had a miscarriage and the world and it's mother seemed to be popping various implements up there which at the time was sooooo horrid. Now i am 39 +2 and my midwife has asked me to go in for a stretch and sweep in a week and a half - and the thought of it makes me feel very queezy. I guess it will be the first hand of many :0(

I have this thought too, worry not.

I also had the added bonus of a manual placenta removal, and have definite recollections of the 'rummaging' being up near my ribs (it made me physically sick at the time, and I still feel sick about it now) :(.

I am refusing sweeps and VEs this time, and I'm doing everything I can to minimise the risk of a further MROP.

what does MROP mean? - i looked on google and they came up with Marine Radio Operator Permit - assuming it's not that ;0)

Manual removal of placenta - sounds traumatic!

What spannermary said. Not nice. It is only recently that I have realised I have major issues surrounding my feelings over that particular procedure.

I couldn't tell you either, 30 odd hours so numerous shift changes, plus I was off my face on gas and air and recall very little anyway.

Do remember early on though that the consultant knocked, came in and did his human glove puppet thang then asked if we had any questions.

Dh quipped - "Yeah, why did you bother to knock?!"

Can't remember with DD either - lots of people in the end. Had an induction involving 3 lots of the gel, various VE, all the works, lasted 50 hours and then onto a c section. By that time I had long given up counting!

I didn't start this thread as a joke. I genuinely feel quite violated by it all. Had a scan at EPAU today. Had to have a vaginal scan. Found the whole experience horrific. It can't be normal to feel this anxious about it all.

You can always refuse them

Sorry namechangerbut, didn't mean to offend. As nailak says, you are able to refuse. Or (depending on length of labour/shift changes etc) have just one mw or consultant who you'd allow if absolutely necessary?

nanechanger it's a perfectly valid way to feel - particularly if you weren't necessarily prepared for it and simply because of the nature of the exam/procedure. Of course for your HCP its a normal everyday part of the job, but for some woman they can be embarrassing or traumatic. For others they cause no problem. You can refuse any further vaginal examinations and that includes during labour. Obviously there might be times where they are unavoidable (if there are problems or you agree to induction) but you can at least minimise the number you have.

Am sorry, i was also not making light of your situation. I read your initial post as being quite lighthearted, but sensed you were quite exasperated at the same time. But i agree. I felt really violated, i think particularly because my only experience was post miscarriage. It all seemed so disrespectful. I felt so protective over that part of my body. After 8 hours of trauma 'delivering' the 'product' (i.e. my little baby) a consultant and nurse had me on a bed rummaging around in me with a pair of forceps trying to dig out my placenta which was stuck to the side of my womb on an an examination table in what felt like a store cupboard. I was in tears and pain throughout. And just remember being left in a pool of blood sobbing my heart out. And now i realise after writing this why i most probably froze at the idea of a stretch and sweep :0(

I had an attempted manual rotation during the 2nd stage. A dr with v v large hands put both of them inside me and tried to force dd's head round and back up. I was very, very traumatised. I didn't feel violated at all but it was brutal. I have had specific birth trauma counselling and can't recommend it highly enough.

You could always refuse or seriously limit VE's next time. I had in my second birth plan that I would only consent to VE's if I agreed that there was useful information to be gained, not because it had been x hours or because they wanted to check if I was ready to push. You could also make it clear that you only want them done by the midwife looking after you (obviously unless consultant involvement becomes necessary). Would that help you feel more in control?

It's horrible feeling bad about your last labour. I almost had a panic attack when I had an internal scan (had a miscarriage between pregnancies) but I did a lot of birth prep and relaxation exercises to prepare me and, in my second labour, in the end had not one VE!

I have issues over being touched especially if I'm not expecting it, and tbh expected to freak out in labour, so my birth plan said "Please get my explicit spoken consent to touch or examine me in any way at all, unless I am incapable in which case ask MrNC"

And they did. Which admittedly got tedious after about 10 hours of taking my blood pressure every 15 min, but I insisted I still wanted that rather than the alternative. I also said I wanted as few VEs as was sensible, so I think there were 5 before ending up in theatre 30 hours later, all explained to me why they thought it would be a damn good idea to do them.

Do you think it's the number of people involved upsetting you, or that you weren't given a choice to consent to the exams, or how the staff acted towards you?

After sitting down and talking to DP about it I've realised the exact reason why I feel like this.

Whilst in the hospital yesterday a young doctor said hello to DD2 and smiled at her, asked how old she was etc

When she walked off down corridor I said to DP that I recognised her, he said she was present when I was in labour. SHE was the doctor who gave me repeated VEs Without consent. To the point I was asleep / eyes shut / tens machine, bit spaced out after 15 hours labour, there she was examining me, without introduction or speaking to me MID contraction the first time. I asked her to stop and she said she didn't want to wake me.

I remember laying down curled up breathing through contraction, was in transition - and feeling my legs being pulled apart and being roughly examined.

I had suppressed a lot of this. Until I saw her yesterday.

Also when 26 weeks pregnant I had some bleeding an was admitted for 4 days. I arrived at the hospital alone and MW said dr wanted to examine me - I had a speculum inserted and three doctors with hand held torches peering up to see my cervix, then they wanted to go get some thing I was left with speculum in, legs apart, room full of staff, door open while some one went to get some thing

Is it any fucking wonder I feel like this or am I being totally OTT

Then if you haven't done so, you need to complain. That is assault and you may not be the only one. You may stop her doing it to someone else.

Her actions were despicable.

This is also why I felt really let down by DP after the birth.

When I told my MW I felt a bit violated and freaked out, she smiled and said that she was disappointed my home birth didn't go to plan but I should be happy that I have a healthy baby and all was well

Flisspaps

• this was 14 months ago, what would possible happen now? I can't prove any thing - I feel like I'm being dramatic.

I had an elective section, and so didnt have a single internal with my second baby.

My first birth was horrendous for the internal exams. i had two hideous sweeps and then was induced over a four day period and had all sorts of random doctors and midwives turning up in the middle of the night to stick a hand up there. It was awful. I was completely fine with smears etc before that. Now I absokutely hate them.

namechangerbat, I'm sorry you had such a grim experience - your feelings don't sound at all OTT to me, but then I've always had problems with smears etc (sexual abused as a child which obviously doesn't help, etc).

For psychological reasons I had an ELCS for my DC - not a single VE anywhere along the line. Thank god.

I do feel that women can't talk openly about feeling violated or traumatised by VE's or similar. It's as if the only 'acceptable' reaction is not to care and be all bright and dismissive about it, as if VE's were no different to someone looking down your ear.

I was thinking about this the other day, when there was some debate on the radio about why men don't go to GPs about prostate problems and the like. Time and again, I heard 'oh, women don't mind intimate exams, once you've had a baby you don't care about anything like that'. I don't think that's true, and I think it makes it very hard for a woman to say 'actually, I DO mind' without sounding precious.