Horrible consultant appointment

[charlie7]

Not posted on here for a long time but I am on regularly checking out other people's stories etc. It's all helpful!
Anyway, I am having a hard time of it with my third pregnancy and wondered what others thought of my situation
I am 34 weeks with DC3, and am currently trying to request an ELCS. My previous births were VBs, the first one being reasonably ok and I had an epidural which was great. By the second one, we had moved and our nearest hospital did not and still doesn't do epidurals (it is a city hospital serving a large area) and the nearest one doing them is 1 hour 10 mins away.
Second birth was v traumatic for me, way too fast, intense, no pain relief that worked at all, plus back to back baby, i was completely out of control, I struggle still to talk about it even though it was 3 years ago. I literally wanted to die.

This time round I am getting more and more anxious about the birth. It is making me feel ill all the time, can't sleep, eat etc. After seeing two different midwives they both said I should see a consultant about the possibility of a ELCS due to the extreme anxiety I am suffering from and how it will be affecting baby etc.
So I have seen one. And she was awful. Didn't look at the extensive notes the mw had made about my mental state, was extremely surprised about my request and several times referred to my births as "nice easy births". What??!! This was after i had described in detail what happened. She kept saying natural is best and that I had a much greater chance of dying with cs!! I had done my research and knew the risks of cs, I knew she would have to explain the risks etc I just didn't expect her to force her own opinions onto me. She accused me of "just not liking childbirth" even though i told her there was absolutely no way I could go through what happened last time.
I always knew it would be a fight, but I didn't expect to be patronised and spoken to like that.
I feel so hurt and stupid and even more stressed now. My mw couldn't believe it either but obviously there is not much she can do.
Anyway I have now been referred for a second opinion and am dreading having to go through it all again.
I know it might seem extreme to some to want an ELCS but noone experienced my last birth except me and I have developed a real fear, and know I will just completely panic if I go into labour.
I guess I am just seeing if anyone else has had anything similar or can advise me. I know I probably won't get a cs as I have no real medical reason, but I would almost have preferred a straight no than to be treated like this.
Sorry for long post!
Thank you!

Arn't the NICE guidelines regarding cs about to be changed so that if one consultant refuses (which I assume in your case she did) then they have to refer you to one that will agree to it? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will come along soon to confirm/deny what I've said!

I doubt very much you'll have to go through today's events again with the next doctor as I think such a reaction is pretty rare - and I've always heard most obstetricians have cs themselves! I had a long speech ready about the various reasons why I needed a cs, but as it happened when the doctor realised what I was wanting she just said oh that's fine and got the consent form out!
So, persevere and get the second opinion. I'm sure you'd have a further option to complain after that if you feel the doctors' didn't actually listen to your concerns.

I agree. Wha you've had so far is one doctor's view and imo she totally misread your situation. put it behind you, make some notes to show the new doctor and take somebody with you to advocate for you.

Thank you, that's made me feel better! The ironic thing is that she admitted that she had never had a vb only a cs (which she then went on to describe in detail all the things that had happened to her, and did I know I would have a scar? No, really??!!) I found it hard to take one person who had never actually gone through a vb telling me how easy mine were!!
Will def write down reasons and my dh is coming next time too, really I should have asked him to this time especially as I got so upset ( oh yes she also said that "I didn't look that stressed" as I was in floods of tears...)
Thanks again.

How awful for you, it just amazes me that so called professionals can behave like this when you go to them for help. Whatever her personal views on CS you are entited to a fair hearing and to have your concerns taken seriously. Go for second opinion. I am under a consultant this time and have an agreed ELCS, although my situation is a bit different as had induction and forceps delivery last time which went a bit wrong. I still thought I'd be in for a fight though when I requested ELCS this time, but the consultant I saw was very understanding when I explained how terrifying I found the whole thing, so it just goes to show that the treatment you get could be vastly different from consultant to consultant.
Worth checking the NICE guidelines too as kblu said. And emphasise how your anxiety is affecting you. They have to take your mental state into account.

I have to admit I was expecting a degree of understanding, especially as the midwives had been so good about it. Just hope the next consultant is a bit better. Glad you got your ELCS.

It's fair enough that you should be given information and support to change your mind if you possibly can, but if, despite attempts your mind is unchanged, it is barbaric to make you beg.

Do these people not know anything about birth? In order to avoid the risk of a emcs you need to spend the last days of your pregnancy and labour calm and confident. Make it clear that you are heading down the c/s route regardless due to your anxiety but that one way is after pain and distress that was caused by them.

New NICE guidelines due 23rd Nov.

Draft is here: www.nice.org.uk/guidance/index.jsp?action=folder&o=54526

Quote from page 101

However, in situations where women persist in their request for a CS, following provision of the opportunity to discuss and explore their reasons for the request, the GDG believed that the potential for psychological harm caused by denying this request was sufficient to warrant this unacceptable in terms of the woman‟s health and has the potential to be costly in terms of long-term need for psychological support. It was concluded, therefore, that if a vaginal birth is not an acceptable option to the woman after discussion and the offer of support, she should be supported in her choice of a planned CS.

Thanks Starlight, my main arguement has been that if I am extremely anxious about it now what will i be like nearer and during the birth. I do actually think that my body will almost close down as psychologically I cannot do it again.
Crazyshy, thanks for that, I will print it out and take it with me next time. I had read some of the new NICE guidelines, but not seen this part. Thanks.

What a nightmare, you poor thing.

I had a similar 2nd birth and was so freaked out I couldn't stand for that to happen again. But I didn't quite have the guts to push for a CS third time round and wasn't sure that was right for me.

What I DID have was a planned induction. For me this is a good happy medium. You can have the epidural sited before the drip even starts, everything can be slowed right down and it's a good experience. I've done it twice now. No panic, everything planned.

Just putting that in as food for thought, but I think if you need a CS you need a CS, end of!

I think that the fact you feel strongly enough about it to request a second opinion will also go in your favour at the next appointment. Having husband there too will definitely help. I had a meeting with a registrar where I really didn't manage to get across my point. I think it's difficult to play both the traumatised woman and someone who knows and understands the implications of what they are asking for. Easier if dh concentrates on the second role. I do think it's wrong that a sane woman has to jump through hoops and 'play the game' like this but that's just the way it is unfortunately.

Coffeeaddict, I had considered a planned induction actually. My main concern is that epidurals are not offered at my hospital, not even for planned inductions (but they are given for sections obviously, funny that isn't it?!) the nearest hospital that i could have one is a long way in a very rural area which often is a nightmare to get to in winter (i am due end of dec) So I could end up booking for the induction and then not being able to get there but also not having the ELCS to fall back on! However, this is going to be my second choice if I can't get cs. Glad you had a much better birth this time!

The worst thing you can do is to panic in labour. I was really relaxed about it, whats going to happen will happen and fortunately had an easy labour and a healthy baby, with no medical intervention and no stitches or tears. Women have been giving birth for thousands of years and i am sure there are more consultants out there that would be more sympathetic. I think they should have to seriously consider giving you an elcs because the stress you are expreiencing is not helkping you or the baby. The best thing you can do is carry on as normal for as long as possible in labour.

I had the same as you with dc2 and dc1 had ended in an emcs! They really wanted me to go for a vb and I had a horrible consultant appointment where they made me feel completely rubbish. I was really traumatised by my first labour/birth but I didn't back down and when I went for my second consultation and saw someone else, I said I wanted an elcs again and they just said "okay then". And that was that! (and I was all ready to go all guns blazing!)

I think they often do a follow up consultation where you will get a straight answer whereas the first appointment is just to discuss so you can go off knowing all the facts and make your mind up properly (obviously something you have already done anyway!). But when they can come across so pressurising at first, it can be really upsetting and stressful thinking that they will make you go through it again. I know there are these new guidelines but I was sure I read before that if you don't back down about your decision that they couldnt stop you from having an elcs? It being your body, your decision and everything? I could be wrong but if I was you I would try not to worry because if you really want one I don't think they can force you to go down the vb route.

For what it's worth with dc3 I felt I'd got over my fears a bit and planned a vbac (just wanted a shorter recovery time!) but I still ended up with an emcs - apparantly I have a small pelvis! (could have told me that before!). However, I had had an epidural and it wasn't traumatising like the first time, so I didn't regret going for it anyway. Know what you mean about that fear of not being able to get an epidural if you want one though - I was scared of the same.

Funnily enough, I had the same problem the other way round for my third birth. Having had things go incredibly wrong in previous births I wanted to try to lay it to rest with my last chance of a natural birth for the third and final. My consultant insisted on an elective c-s, and when I refused actually referred me to a psychiatrist. What was deeply upsetting, and I understand your feelings consequently, was the attitude that my experiences and views were wrong, that she knew best, I was being stupid and irrational, and should just behave and do was I told. Its like a total rejection of your deeply held and rational feelings. Stick to your guns and seek a second opinion - what you know is right, is right! And you should also complain about the consultant, how dare she put you down in that way!

charlie you could be me

Last time i had a planned induction WITH epidural - cited when induction was started - it was fine - very ill throughout which left me quite weak but NOTHING like the torture of childbirth. I too requested CS but out and out refused

'cited'? 'sited'?

I had a horrible first VB and have just been granted an elective for my second by "maternal request" here. I too had an awful first consultant who refused me. A kind midwife referred me to a more pro-cs consultant for the second opinion (and made it earlier than the 28 weeks that was suggested) as I was so distressed about it. The second consultant didn't even ask me to explain myself - although I had been through the notes of the first consultant and corrected them where he had put incorrect information and where he hadn't properly advised me, eg: failed to consider the effect on my mental health.

Stick to your guns if you think it's right for you. Get your GP and midwife onside and get another consultants referral. I think lots of consultants appear to have the empathy bred out of them but they're not all like that! Good luck.

Did you speak to your midwife about this consultant? Sme thing happend to me after I had emergency section with DD1 and wanted elective for DD2...horrid consultant tried to bully me...I told on her to my midwife who then made lots of phonecalls and I got my section.
Can you speak to your midwife? Health visitor?

It was very wrong of her to deny your experience like that.

There you go OP....same happend to herethere too! Maybe it's some kind of rite of passage...like when Charlotte wants to be a Jew! (sex and the city joke)

Cheer up...you CAN get this sorted...don't worry....I know it's horrible and worryng but they cant MAKE you have a VB...not with your history!

Verybusybear that was the problem exactly, i think she thought I was just a pathetic woman who had no idea that it is major abdominal surgery I am requesting! I will make sure my dh knows exactly what to say next time!

Ellen, I was quite relaxed in both labours, until the last one became so unbelievably unbearable, then I completely panicked. Now, as I know the next could be like that (and there is nothing they can give me or do if it is like that) I am panicking all the time. Which, as you say is not good.

Mrs penny, so glad you got what you wanted for your second, and didn't back down, I am determined to not back down until I have definite answer either way. Sorry you had a horrible consultant too, too many around it seems!

Jynxed, yes I am struggling with the idea that my views dont seem to be taken into account, the consultant even said I couldn't know what I was talking about as I hadn't experienced a cs! Does that mean I can't have a choice then?! Thank you for your understanding.

Not, glad it's not just me at least, feel like a bit of a freak to be feeling so anti- childbirth to be honest, I certainly wasn't anti it before the last birth. Glad yours turned out ok.

I requested a cs for my 2nd dc after having a traumatic first birth, my consultant was on holiday but the replacement said no problem after I had discussed it and the reasons why. My normal consultant came back off holiday and said no way. I cried and cried and cried, the feeling of terror was awful

I ended up having a planned induction and they started an epidural as soon as contractions were coming. Lasted about 5 hours from start to finish and was so unlike the first birth I couldnt believe it. This could be another option for you to think about.

Anyway, I hope you get what you want, its barbaric forcing you to do something when the trauma can be so great.

Herethere, that's really positive to hear your story, I actually feel loads better now!! I have two midwives on side, not seen my gp but may do if necessary.

Mumbling- yes I told my midwife and she was very unimpressed.might take it further if I have the energy as the consultant should not have been trying to make me feel like a silly little girl (I'm 36!!) and yes got the sex and city joke :-)

Brianandballs- sorry you didn't get what you wanted though at least you had a better experience in the long run. I suppose I was also concerned about indications often leading to interventions, which is the last thing I want, but obviously they don't always which is good to hear.

Thanks everyone for your support and for making me realise I could have a positive outcome, I was getting really down about the whole thing. The baby was possibly breech a couple of weeks ago so am secretly (!) hoping he/she still is when I get checked this week as that would solve a lot of problems! Will let you know how I get on with the next consultant next week. Will certainly be a lot more prepared to deal with a difficult one!